Partial birth abortion is here to stay
- Thread starter CCGR
- Start date
Gandhi
New Member
your baby is due in 4 weeks, I don't think they do abortions for people that late in the pregnancy.
And u can use all the protection in the world one always finds a way home.
CCGR your probobly a very responsible adult that has a good home life. There are girls out there that don't have a stable home, or can't afford to have a baby. And u can't obstain from having sex, life would be pretty dull.
And if you found out your baby had a genitic defect that would make it lve a sgort painfull life u wouldn't make it sufer.(But your baby will be fine and we will call her mini CCGR
)
And u can use all the protection in the world one always finds a way home.
CCGR your probobly a very responsible adult that has a good home life. There are girls out there that don't have a stable home, or can't afford to have a baby. And u can't obstain from having sex, life would be pretty dull.
And if you found out your baby had a genitic defect that would make it lve a sgort painfull life u wouldn't make it sufer.(But your baby will be fine and we will call her mini CCGR
)
Arkanjel
New Member
This will be my last post on this subject.
I would like to point out to those who have not experienced childbirth or have a child of your own that you have gone through the pregnancy with your wife, that you know not of what you speak. Once you have truely and genuinely gone through this process and have seen the miracle of it, then I want you to come to me and tell me that you still think that the child inside your wife's womb is just a bunch of cells that do not have a conscience. If after you have experienced this first hand and still think that child is just a mindless lump of flesh, then you have more issues to deal with than can be solved by posting on this website. Perhaps you should experience something firsthand for yourself instead of quoting what you read in someone elses writing.
In Christ,
Gabriel
I would like to point out to those who have not experienced childbirth or have a child of your own that you have gone through the pregnancy with your wife, that you know not of what you speak. Once you have truely and genuinely gone through this process and have seen the miracle of it, then I want you to come to me and tell me that you still think that the child inside your wife's womb is just a bunch of cells that do not have a conscience. If after you have experienced this first hand and still think that child is just a mindless lump of flesh, then you have more issues to deal with than can be solved by posting on this website. Perhaps you should experience something firsthand for yourself instead of quoting what you read in someone elses writing.
In Christ,
Gabriel
Newborn babies don't have a conscience Ark, how could they? A conscience is an extremely complicated thing, and it doesn't really develope until much later in a child's developement. Yes, have experienced the miracle of life first hand, and yes, I believe that at birth they do not possess the cognitive complexity to be considered a personality. But of course, the baby's mind developes at an extremely fast pace, so I don't consider it a 'mindless lump of flesh' either. (Please, don't say things like that. It's ugly.) Do I believe this because I'm a heartless person that cannot see the wonder in the creation of a new life? Of course not. But I don't get so wrapped up in the drama that I lose sight of what's happening either.
Let me clarify my first statement.
The only time I would okay abortion, EVER, is if the life of the mother was in jeopardy and if rape has occured. Some people stretch this over to incest, but if some moron wants to go lie down with his sister...Hey, be my guest, it might be wrong, but if it's not rape... Otherwise, I feel no need for abortion. Heartless you might say, but no, "logical" as some of you might say. I have personal convictions for these reasons, and if any of you continue to persue it in a haughty way, you can expect me to make myself scarce again lest another incident occurs.
Anyways, I hope that clarifies. This topic exploded in the short time I haven't loaded up the forums, and seeing how I'm about to be busy for the next several hours, let me just comment to something jango said ---
A fetus can live outside of the body, sir. My cousin was born a premmie, at FOUR MONTHS. Four. Count em', four. My OTHER cousin was *nearly* born due to a traumatic experience that I'm still not clear on, at 3 months, but they managed to prevent it (any medical majors want to clarify how that's possible? Medication/injections i'm guessing?)
If anyone has already said this, I'm sorry for being redundant, I didn't have time to read past page two of this post.
Van
The only time I would okay abortion, EVER, is if the life of the mother was in jeopardy and if rape has occured. Some people stretch this over to incest, but if some moron wants to go lie down with his sister...Hey, be my guest, it might be wrong, but if it's not rape... Otherwise, I feel no need for abortion. Heartless you might say, but no, "logical" as some of you might say. I have personal convictions for these reasons, and if any of you continue to persue it in a haughty way, you can expect me to make myself scarce again lest another incident occurs.
Anyways, I hope that clarifies. This topic exploded in the short time I haven't loaded up the forums, and seeing how I'm about to be busy for the next several hours, let me just comment to something jango said ---
A fetus can live outside of the body, sir. My cousin was born a premmie, at FOUR MONTHS. Four. Count em', four. My OTHER cousin was *nearly* born due to a traumatic experience that I'm still not clear on, at 3 months, but they managed to prevent it (any medical majors want to clarify how that's possible? Medication/injections i'm guessing?)
If anyone has already said this, I'm sorry for being redundant, I didn't have time to read past page two of this post.
Van
HA, more time than I thought I had...Let me just comment on one thing.
In college now, we often get into debates like this that usually end in the same way, both sides just feeling frustrated and often even more staunch on their stances....This is one thing, though, that I stood up in front of my bioII class, a little over 100 people and spoke the words that are in my biology book as well as every other biology book and dictionary in the word. To them, I said,
"Many of you just said that a fetus is not alive, yet you hold this book in your hand and triumph and say this proves a fetus isn't alive, but let me read to you the very first words in this book....'Life is can be recognized and is manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism.' Now, you sit here and tell me a fetus is not alive, but does it not have metabolism? Does it not GROW in direct influence from that metabolism? Female babies are born with all the eggs they'll ever have in their entire lives -- they have the capacity to reproduce. Babies carry out homeostasis just like every LIVING creature does. Lastly, as any mother can tell you, babies DO react to stimuli and the enviorment around them. I watched recently as my cousin, who was born at four months herself, I sat and felt her baby kick, squirm, and all the rest. I challenge any single one of you to stand up and tell me what I just said was wrong, because if you do, you will lose your integrity, because what I just read was scientific fact."
I then sat down and no one said a word for the rest of the class. The teacher said, "Well done", and we continued on with the rest of our lesson.
Anyone care to try to tell me a fetus isn't alive now?
In college now, we often get into debates like this that usually end in the same way, both sides just feeling frustrated and often even more staunch on their stances....This is one thing, though, that I stood up in front of my bioII class, a little over 100 people and spoke the words that are in my biology book as well as every other biology book and dictionary in the word. To them, I said,
"Many of you just said that a fetus is not alive, yet you hold this book in your hand and triumph and say this proves a fetus isn't alive, but let me read to you the very first words in this book....'Life is can be recognized and is manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism.' Now, you sit here and tell me a fetus is not alive, but does it not have metabolism? Does it not GROW in direct influence from that metabolism? Female babies are born with all the eggs they'll ever have in their entire lives -- they have the capacity to reproduce. Babies carry out homeostasis just like every LIVING creature does. Lastly, as any mother can tell you, babies DO react to stimuli and the enviorment around them. I watched recently as my cousin, who was born at four months herself, I sat and felt her baby kick, squirm, and all the rest. I challenge any single one of you to stand up and tell me what I just said was wrong, because if you do, you will lose your integrity, because what I just read was scientific fact."
I then sat down and no one said a word for the rest of the class. The teacher said, "Well done", and we continued on with the rest of our lesson.
Anyone care to try to tell me a fetus isn't alive now?
........THAT WAS THE ENTIRE REASON IN MY POST!
A fetus INSIDE THE BODY.
That's not just a definition, ask any bio major, it's the very BASIS of biology, especially microbiology and things of that nature. Sometimes we need to get caught up in the definitions, because the meaning of the words you speak mean more than you think. That's the whole arguement with anyone I've met so far is that the fetus can't be a person because it's NOT ALIVE yet. I've clearly proven a fetus is alive, and therefore a PERSON. Wow, do you have any idea what you're talking about, sir?
Let's stick you in some goo, lock you up for nine months and tell YOU you're not life. I seriously think that might be the only thing to prove this to some of you people.
A fetus INSIDE THE BODY.
That's not just a definition, ask any bio major, it's the very BASIS of biology, especially microbiology and things of that nature. Sometimes we need to get caught up in the definitions, because the meaning of the words you speak mean more than you think. That's the whole arguement with anyone I've met so far is that the fetus can't be a person because it's NOT ALIVE yet. I've clearly proven a fetus is alive, and therefore a PERSON. Wow, do you have any idea what you're talking about, sir?
Let's stick you in some goo, lock you up for nine months and tell YOU you're not life. I seriously think that might be the only thing to prove this to some of you people.
That's irrelevant, a cat can't birth a human, a human can birth a human. Stop bringing irrelevant, non-sensical topics into this discussion. Heck, though, if you want me to prove my point with an ANIMAL as an example..
A kangaroo, once conceived, what is essentially a fetus, crawls on its own from the birth canal to the mother's pouch and from there out grows into a full grown 'roo. It's considered alive and a "joey", y'know, a kid 'roo. Now, how is it, an ANIMAL can be seen as a member of its own species well before it's fully developed, but simply because a human baby isn't fully developed, it's not yet a human being?
Explain away, but you make no sense and your arguements are in vain.
A kangaroo, once conceived, what is essentially a fetus, crawls on its own from the birth canal to the mother's pouch and from there out grows into a full grown 'roo. It's considered alive and a "joey", y'know, a kid 'roo. Now, how is it, an ANIMAL can be seen as a member of its own species well before it's fully developed, but simply because a human baby isn't fully developed, it's not yet a human being?
Explain away, but you make no sense and your arguements are in vain.
Meh, it's not my fault that my arguements are in vain. I'm not really argueing so much as throwing out concepts for consideration anyway.
It was a rhetorical quesiton. My point is that a newborn baby, while alive, does not have cognitive ability above that of a typical animal. It does not have morals or a conscience, though it does have the potential for these things. But I don't consider him or her a 'person' until later in their developement. Being a person denotes the presence of the composite of characteristics that make up an individual personality; the self, something that a newborn lacks. Does this mean it's alright to end their lives as we so thoughtlessly do to other animals? Of course not. But it's something for you to consider in this issue.. Is it irrelevant? If it is, so is your 'entire reason.'
It was a rhetorical quesiton. My point is that a newborn baby, while alive, does not have cognitive ability above that of a typical animal. It does not have morals or a conscience, though it does have the potential for these things. But I don't consider him or her a 'person' until later in their developement. Being a person denotes the presence of the composite of characteristics that make up an individual personality; the self, something that a newborn lacks. Does this mean it's alright to end their lives as we so thoughtlessly do to other animals? Of course not. But it's something for you to consider in this issue.. Is it irrelevant? If it is, so is your 'entire reason.'
CCGR
Member
actually babies in utero do have feelings, with the 3d/4d ultrasound technology you can see them frown and smile. Some babies are more active in the womb than others. Ask any mother who has carried mroe than one child, chances are there were distinct differences. They have their own awake and sleeping schedules. Instint or not she's still 100% human she's defintiely not an ape. She has unique DNA.
Abstaining from intercourse is possible and does not
make you a lesser person by any means. Now for those who don't decide to wait, should definitely prepare for the consequences of sexual relations. Pregnancy and STD's are big risks. Play with fire you may get burned.
Abstaining from intercourse is possible and does not
make you a lesser person by any means. Now for those who don't decide to wait, should definitely prepare for the consequences of sexual relations. Pregnancy and STD's are big risks. Play with fire you may get burned.
::edits CCGR's post::
"Play with fire you will get burned"
At least in that instance.. I know friends who have been emotionally torn to shreds and they've lost their faith because they became sexually involved well before they were supposed to. Not a pretty site to have to drag a friend out of a pool while he's trying to drown himself because he's heartbroken. ::sigh::
Is it just me, or is the common good going DOWN recently...?
"Play with fire you will get burned"
At least in that instance.. I know friends who have been emotionally torn to shreds and they've lost their faith because they became sexually involved well before they were supposed to. Not a pretty site to have to drag a friend out of a pool while he's trying to drown himself because he's heartbroken. ::sigh::
Is it just me, or is the common good going DOWN recently...?
I'm not saying that all babies are the same. My mother had four children, and our womb behaviors were all different. I'm just saying that a newborn does not possess the qualities of a 'person.' We cannot conclude that feeling happy and sad denotes this either, I'm afraid. But this isn't that large of a point, so lets disagree on more important things, shall we?[b said:
I agree, abstaining from having sex is the best way to go. But it's not our place to decide or enforce that. Nor is it the government's place to become the moral leader of this country. That's the church's jurisdiction. Should the government be amoral? No, but it has to maintain a balance. We may believe something about what people should do with their bodies, but others may disagree. Because this is a democracy, for the government to take a stance on highly morallity based issues is a logical fallacy and political suicide. What's 'right' doesn't always happen, because running a government is an enormous game of compensations, and not everyone believes in the same 'rights.' This makes a lot of people upset, but there's really nothing for it. As Churchill said, Democracy is the worst form of government, but it's the only one that works. Alright, tangeant rant over.
No, play with fire and you may get burned methinks. I've avoided being burned on many occasions.[b said:
I know what you mean about the common good though. It's kind of depressing. Seems to me the world used to be a happier place. I think perhaps our species took a wrong turn somewhere down the path of our history, and we're only now realizing that the choice we made was a mistake. I wonder if we're too far down the road to change direction..
Thank goodness I'm an optimist.
Thaddius
Member
[b said:
I guess since I'm a Bible believing Christian, that makes me a pesamist when it comes to the world. Based on Danial, Matthew and Revelations, its only going to get worse before it gets better.
Cory
TastyWheat
New Member
Aristotle said it first[b said:
