Partial birth abortion is here to stay
- Thread starter CCGR
- Start date
PapaToad
Active Member
What is your Question Mr Bill I will answer it
Thaddius
Member
Exodus 21:22
Jango, I think your misreading that passage. If it causes the woman to give birth, then the payment is laid out by the husband. If the child is injured or killed, then the payment must be equal to what harm is caused to the child. It is not saying that her "fruit departing from her" is equal to aborting the child, only giving birth prematurly. In the context of what is written, what your trying to state makes no sense. The punishment for causing the baby to die was death.
Cory
[b said:
Jango, I think your misreading that passage. If it causes the woman to give birth, then the payment is laid out by the husband. If the child is injured or killed, then the payment must be equal to what harm is caused to the child. It is not saying that her "fruit departing from her" is equal to aborting the child, only giving birth prematurly. In the context of what is written, what your trying to state makes no sense. The punishment for causing the baby to die was death.
Cory
Jango
New Member
It actually states if a men are fighting and hit a women and cause her to misscariage, the man must just pay a fine as the husband says and the courts allow. But if the women dies, he'll be put to death.
So the fetus still dies, even if it's not by abortion, it's still killing the fetus.
So the fetus still dies, even if it's not by abortion, it's still killing the fetus.
All you are saying, over and over in a variety of different ways, is that abortion is immoral. Everyone knows this, so let us move on. Do you think we should ban abortion altogether and at once? Phase it out? And how will you handle the backlash of the poor community? Abortions are going to continue to happen, regardless of whether it is legal or not. I believe you are basing your opinion entirely on principle and are disregarding the practicality of the stance.[b said:
Thaddius
Member
So your stating that fruits departing = miscarriage and not just premature birth? Perhaps you should look more into what the translation means instead of deciding what it means for yourself.[b said:
Darby
[b said:
NIV
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NASB
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NLT
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Need I go on? You should put more effort into your research of scripture my friend.
Cory
PapaToad
Active Member
Yes, I would Ban it. The back lash is people who engage in sexual activity should only do so after marriage with their spouse. If the choose not to follow this rule, take the appropriate precautions. If it’s a rape, get the poor woman the counseling she needs and if she is so damaged she can not treat the child with love and compassion the adopted out.
The practicality is this do not have sex unless your married I know the social impact it would have, get over it. I am not here to make someone’s sexually choices easier. There will always be a black market. Take your chances.
The principle is it’s a life, By the arguments it is. That’s my solution. I will take that to the grave!
The practicality is this do not have sex unless your married I know the social impact it would have, get over it. I am not here to make someone’s sexually choices easier. There will always be a black market. Take your chances.
The principle is it’s a life, By the arguments it is. That’s my solution. I will take that to the grave!
PapaToad
Active Member
THANK YOU THAD, that was awesome. with the life for life.
Dark Virtue
New Member
Wicked and meanspirited?[b said:
I think not.
The truth hurts sometimes, get over it.
"CLEARLY what he is saying is that while they are horrible, God can take that experience and do good with it."
That's called a BLESSING IN DISGUISE.
In otherwords, that tragedy was a blessing in disguise. Something good came out of it. Isn't that what you said?
You're trying to hide behind semantics and you've just lost. Either way you cut it, it comes down to the same thing...you are calling tragedies a blessing.
Jango
New Member
How many babies do you think survived a premature birth back thousands of years ago? And the "life for life" thing again is referring to the mother, not the fetus.
Arkanjel
New Member
People have to cling to something in this world and I have chosen to cling to God. I have been rewarded richly for it. I have a beautiful wife and daughter to thank God for every day. I have been given these things through personal tragedy of my own. Again I speak from experience here so I know and understand what I believe. If you would like my personal examples I would be more than happy to give them to you.
In Christ,
Gabriel
In Christ,
Gabriel
PapaToad
Active Member
That's called a BLESSING IN DISGUISE.
In otherwords, that tragedy was a blessing in disguise. Something good came out of it. Isn't that what you said?
You're trying to hide behind semantics and you've just lost. Either way you cut it, it comes down to the same thing...you are calling tragedies a blessing.
What semantics. If a man decides to rape a woman. And she has the child, and he becomes a incredible man of God. It is still the man who raped her. Not God.
But it was God who will cal la man to him and a woman and take a tragedy and make something BLESSED by it.
Its not the same as you said. You are wrong hero. God did not make the rape happen.
In otherwords, that tragedy was a blessing in disguise. Something good came out of it. Isn't that what you said?
You're trying to hide behind semantics and you've just lost. Either way you cut it, it comes down to the same thing...you are calling tragedies a blessing.
What semantics. If a man decides to rape a woman. And she has the child, and he becomes a incredible man of God. It is still the man who raped her. Not God.
But it was God who will cal la man to him and a woman and take a tragedy and make something BLESSED by it.
Its not the same as you said. You are wrong hero. God did not make the rape happen.
Dark Virtue
New Member
[b said:
I have to admit that I have never heard that before...and that's saying something
On a total sidenote, yet related to the finger thing, is the origin of shooting someone the bird. this began in the middle ages. It took a very long time and a large amount of money/resources for the British to train longbowmen. In order to be proficient with the longbow, it took an inordinate amount of skill. The French, being the, well, French that they were, would cut off the middle finger of captured Englishmen, thereby rendering them useless with the bow. When the English would seige French forts, they would shoot them the bird to show them they were still intact and capable of beating the snot out of them.
Just a bit of useless info for you.
[b said:
It's interesting to note that this term is commonly misinterpreted as, "the sons of God". It is actually "the sons of gods", beni ha-elohim in Hebrew. This seems to be a cleverly hidden piece of mythology in the Bible.
Either way, I'm not sure where you get demons/fallen angels from. Unless of course, you've been reading Sitchin on me.
[b said:
I like the way you equate aliens with fallen angels. It's an interesting take.
[b said:
As I have said above, this is a game of semantics. It's a blessing in disguise then, which is the same as cutting to the chase and calling it a blessing. If that's the way you feel, so be it, but don't try to pretty it up, there's no need.
[b said:
That's a double edged sword though. Whether you are a believer or not, it could just as easily drive someone AWAY from God.
Dark Virtue
New Member
[b said:
[b said:
And what if that child grows up to be a mass murderer? That is just as likely as he is to grow up to be an incredible man of god. So, uh, where's the blessing there?
[b said:
God didn't stop it from happening either, did he?
Dark Virtue
New Member
For every story you could tell us about how God helped you in life, there are those of us who could tell you how God DIDN'T help.[b said:
There's really no point in trading stories.
The only outcome would be someone saying, "God works in mysterious ways".
Gandhi
New Member
wow this thread grew a few pages since morning.
I'm for abortion since its sometimes necessary.
Here's a question. If u found out that your baby when he is born will have some genetic defect that is going to make him die in the first few weeks and those weeks it will de in alot of pain. Would u save your child from a horrible few weeks, or are u going to be selfish let him be born and live his short life in pain.
I don't think it should be banned. People have sex, they make babies, if u can't afford to have the baby there is abortion. I believe a woman has the right to chose. I probobly don't have the right to say if its right or wrong since I've never carried a baby for 9 months, or had to make a choice to keep or abort a pregnancy.
I thnk u can quote the bible for everything, there's a quote in there to justify everything depending on how u look at it.
definition for
Abortion - Termination of pregnancy and expulsion of an embryo or of a fetus that is incapable of survival.
Fetus - The unborn young of a viviparous vertebrate having a basic structural resemblance to the adult animal.
embryo - An organism in its early stages of development, especially before it has reached a distinctively recognizable form.
Its a fetus or embryo not a person. So it can't be murder.
Well thats just my personal thoughts on it.
I'm for abortion since its sometimes necessary.
Here's a question. If u found out that your baby when he is born will have some genetic defect that is going to make him die in the first few weeks and those weeks it will de in alot of pain. Would u save your child from a horrible few weeks, or are u going to be selfish let him be born and live his short life in pain.
I don't think it should be banned. People have sex, they make babies, if u can't afford to have the baby there is abortion. I believe a woman has the right to chose. I probobly don't have the right to say if its right or wrong since I've never carried a baby for 9 months, or had to make a choice to keep or abort a pregnancy.
I thnk u can quote the bible for everything, there's a quote in there to justify everything depending on how u look at it.
definition for
Abortion - Termination of pregnancy and expulsion of an embryo or of a fetus that is incapable of survival.
Fetus - The unborn young of a viviparous vertebrate having a basic structural resemblance to the adult animal.
embryo - An organism in its early stages of development, especially before it has reached a distinctively recognizable form.
Its a fetus or embryo not a person. So it can't be murder.
Well thats just my personal thoughts on it.
Thaddius
Member
[b said:
Please share where you gather this information from. I am pretty sure that if you injure the woman and cause her to go into premature labor that it would be enough to fall in the the "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth etc" catagory.
If you have information that shows specifically it is speaking of the woman, please, share it now.
Cory
CCGR
Member
if you can't afford a baby you should either abstain from sex or use contraception. f amily planning give that stuff out for free. My baby is due in 4 weeks. I hardly consider it a fetus. She is alive, moving around a lot and even has personality (she's very active and agressive) If she were to be taken out her survival rate is very good. She is more than a bunch of cells.
Jango
New Member
She is more then cells, but she is not yet a human being. Fetuses cannot have "personalities" more then animals can, because, heck, even animals are more sentient the fetuses are!
Thaddius
Member
Here is some more information for you Jango. It seems your opinion of the translation is in the minority.
Taken from HERE
By the way, I'm not trying to come across as a jerk or anything, I'm just trying to point out that the literal interpretation of the scripture your using does not say what you want it to.
Cory
[b said:
Taken from HERE
By the way, I'm not trying to come across as a jerk or anything, I'm just trying to point out that the literal interpretation of the scripture your using does not say what you want it to.
Cory