Partial birth abortion is here to stay
- Thread starter CCGR
- Start date
Jango
New Member
You didn't answer his question.
PapaToad
Active Member
I find you reasoning Flawed. No one deservses to be raped, but there are those weman whohave keep the rapist child and lived normal lives. Both Mother and child. And it does npot matter that a fetus uses the mothers body, it is still a humanbeing, and you can call your self a christian, and have different views than me. I alos want to know how the bible favors you? Abortion is murder. I am sorry you think its ok.
PapaToad
Active Member
What questions do you want answered, there were alot brought up
Ok you said[b said:
Now this view could be applied to many things. Lets take drugs. Now drugs still occure even though they are illegal(i'm not sure if these are fedreal or state laws) Blackmarkets for drugs do exist. This drives up prices and causes people to steal to feed their addictions. Should drugs be legalized to stop this? Should they be legal make safer drugs?(prevent the shareing of needles to prevent AIDS, ect)This can be applied to many laws? How many of these should be appealed? How wrong should the crime be to be to be prohibited?[b said:
Jango
New Member
I have yet to hear of one women in EXISTANCE that was not permantly scarred from being raped.[b said:
Most ( if not all ) need councilling for much of their life.
The only thing I have to agree with you is that Jesus is the Son of God. Christians are not required to think the same on everything.[b said:
If you read all of this topic, you would have seen it. But here it is:[b said:
"
22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. "
Exodus 21:22-23
No it's not. Abortion is no more murder then killing a bug.[b said:
Jango
New Member
But having black market abortions are much more dangerous.[b said:
They would be done in run down houses, or even back allys.
It'd be unlikely that the women would survive, and if you consider a fetus as a human, that'd be TWO lives lost.
Sorry, kill a fetus first, then an adult.
Sorry if I did not ansner anyone to there likeing but thats not what i'm here for. I'm not going to respond to each post individually because there are too many. One thing I will say. Do not be too quick to spout out bible verses (espically the old testiment) about issues. The pharaces(spelling?) did the same thing to Jesus. Yes I know I quoted the bible. Call me a hiopcret or radical, I really don't care. Just before you accuse me of being think headed or not listening to the facts, be sure you are not doing the same thing. Just because I don't agree with you does not mean I'm not listening.
CCGR
Member
a side step back to the seperation, this is what I was referring to.
Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all [ye] workers of iniquity.
Luk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you [yourselves] thrust out.
To come to judgement and realizing you've made the mistake of not knowing Jesus and being cast out from all that is good and pure and seperated from God and his glory. You are sent out into darkness and it's not going to be a good feeling at all. As for it being an eternity I'm not sure, I'm not a scholar.
Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all [ye] workers of iniquity.
Luk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you [yourselves] thrust out.
To come to judgement and realizing you've made the mistake of not knowing Jesus and being cast out from all that is good and pure and seperated from God and his glory. You are sent out into darkness and it's not going to be a good feeling at all. As for it being an eternity I'm not sure, I'm not a scholar.
PapaToad
Active Member
"
22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
This is OT and proves what???
23 And if any mischief follows, then thou shalt give life for life.
You are really missing this, Life for Life?
??
How does this support you??
And I will gladly get back to you testimonies of Rapes women who had children as a result. I can not right now as I am not at my home PC
And You are wrong about life time therapy, I will get the actual statistics, But My mother was a rape crisis counselor for over twenty years. A few deeply scared women are lifetime counselees. But the trauma though serve, does not require more therapy than say a NDE victim or PCSD victim. Different therapy yes, but not more therapy. Any therapist will tell you everyone will cope differently.
Rape is an awful thing to happen to a woman, or anyone, But it does not call for the death of an innocent by the victim.
The point though was I consider it wrong and murder, I believe I am Right,
You hold a different view.
That sums it up nicely
22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
This is OT and proves what???
23 And if any mischief follows, then thou shalt give life for life.
You are really missing this, Life for Life?
How does this support you??
And I will gladly get back to you testimonies of Rapes women who had children as a result. I can not right now as I am not at my home PC
And You are wrong about life time therapy, I will get the actual statistics, But My mother was a rape crisis counselor for over twenty years. A few deeply scared women are lifetime counselees. But the trauma though serve, does not require more therapy than say a NDE victim or PCSD victim. Different therapy yes, but not more therapy. Any therapist will tell you everyone will cope differently.
Rape is an awful thing to happen to a woman, or anyone, But it does not call for the death of an innocent by the victim.
The point though was I consider it wrong and murder, I believe I am Right,
You hold a different view.
That sums it up nicely
Arkanjel
New Member
Another one of Gods neat little signatures.
The umbilical cord. It is called a 3V cord. WHY? Becasue it has 3 veins running through it. How is this significant you might ask. Well lets look at God's description of himself. He is a 3-fold deity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. At the same time he is one being. Without Gods suffcient grace we could not survive, even if you are not in his spirit. He has set in motion for us the way the earth sustains the environment to give us the air we breath and the food we eat. Just like an umbilical cord that is 3 in 1 and sustains the unborn CHILD. Sure the child may be in the mothers womb and being sustained with the mothers life giving blood. I would say the same for you friend. You are in Gods womb (im not saying God is a woman, im just trying to make a point, work with me here) If you are removed from God's life giving blood, then you in turn would die with-in mere moments. RIGHT? God has given us MANY symbols in our lives that give glory to Himself. For instance we have 2 ears to hear and 1 mouth to speak. WHY? Perhaps it is to listen twice before you speak once. We have 5 fingers and 5 toes ( per hand of course) why 5 is the number of Gods grace. The nephilim would have 6 or more of the same. The eye is the most complex organ aside from the brain (which unfortunately some folks dont use) and yet people still claim that we as a human race are a mere accident. Or more precisely a product of primordial rain on a rock. I often ask myself where we as humans or the creation, can find it in our selves to question God or the creator for what circumstances we are put in. Rape is a horrible thing thats the bottom line. However every stone cast by satan will turn to glory if we just let go and let God. But since we 'think' we are in control we rarely let God do his thing and dazzle us with his awesome blessings we continue to try and run our own lives, which will inevitably lead to failure.
In Christ,
Gabriel
The umbilical cord. It is called a 3V cord. WHY? Becasue it has 3 veins running through it. How is this significant you might ask. Well lets look at God's description of himself. He is a 3-fold deity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. At the same time he is one being. Without Gods suffcient grace we could not survive, even if you are not in his spirit. He has set in motion for us the way the earth sustains the environment to give us the air we breath and the food we eat. Just like an umbilical cord that is 3 in 1 and sustains the unborn CHILD. Sure the child may be in the mothers womb and being sustained with the mothers life giving blood. I would say the same for you friend. You are in Gods womb (im not saying God is a woman, im just trying to make a point, work with me here) If you are removed from God's life giving blood, then you in turn would die with-in mere moments. RIGHT? God has given us MANY symbols in our lives that give glory to Himself. For instance we have 2 ears to hear and 1 mouth to speak. WHY? Perhaps it is to listen twice before you speak once. We have 5 fingers and 5 toes ( per hand of course) why 5 is the number of Gods grace. The nephilim would have 6 or more of the same. The eye is the most complex organ aside from the brain (which unfortunately some folks dont use) and yet people still claim that we as a human race are a mere accident. Or more precisely a product of primordial rain on a rock. I often ask myself where we as humans or the creation, can find it in our selves to question God or the creator for what circumstances we are put in. Rape is a horrible thing thats the bottom line. However every stone cast by satan will turn to glory if we just let go and let God. But since we 'think' we are in control we rarely let God do his thing and dazzle us with his awesome blessings we continue to try and run our own lives, which will inevitably lead to failure.
In Christ,
Gabriel
Dark Virtue
New Member
Let's chill out for a second and use our HEADS instead of our HEARTS for a second.
Let's assume the Bible is right and that we should follow God's commandment that we Shall not Murder.
So now we understand that murder is wrong.
However, many, many times God killed in His name. Not only of his own power, but through man as well. So there are times that KILLING is warranted.
Now, let's take a look at what I posted earlier:
And the quote that supports that:
So if you're going to base your opinions on a biblical basis, HERE IT IS, I have shown it to you.
Let's assume the Bible is right and that we should follow God's commandment that we Shall not Murder.
So now we understand that murder is wrong.
However, many, many times God killed in His name. Not only of his own power, but through man as well. So there are times that KILLING is warranted.
Now, let's take a look at what I posted earlier:
[b said:
And the quote that supports that:
[b said:
So if you're going to base your opinions on a biblical basis, HERE IT IS, I have shown it to you.
Arkanjel
New Member
One last note for those that say the OT holds no truth to our daily lives. Folks you need to put down the mouse and the TV remote and join a BIBLE STUDY group. You would be surprised how much can be learned and applied to our daily lives from the OT. If you care to do it online here is a site to start at www.khouse.org Chuck Missler is a great teacher and does many great commentaries. You really do need to study the Word before you try and use it to prove your points, or try and use it to disprove others points.
Except you DV, you do study
In Christ,
Gabriel
Except you DV, you do study
In Christ,
Gabriel
PapaToad
Active Member
Ok If God gave life it is his to do with as he pleases, not mans, and A fetus, (Baby unborn breathe through the cord, (Takes in air to Live)
OMGosh a 5 grader could grasp this
OMGosh a 5 grader could grasp this
Dark Virtue
New Member
[b said:
Are you saying the nephilim would have 6 or more fingers and toes? Exactly what are you basing this on?
I'd also like to know what your definition of Nephilim is.
[b said:
So are you saying that rape, murder, incest, torture, etc is actually a blessing from God and we're just too stupid to see that?
Dark Virtue
New Member
No offense, but that's a copout.[b said:
God no longer is involved directly with us. Remember that little thing called free will?
And what the heck happened with what Christ said about rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's? Aren't we supposed to obey the rules of the government that we live under?
PapaToad
Active Member
No ever said they were blessing and what an idiotic assumption. CLEARLY what he is saying is that while they are horrible, God can take that experience and do good with it. I myself have had some horrible things done to me; as a result, I can now connect to others who have gone thru similar situation. I could and did for a time use my experiences to twist my perceptions of the world, and used that to be a wicked person. Now God has allowed me to use what happen to help others and understand.
You took a sentence and disregard all else. What a wicked and mean spirited thing to do.
And as far as rape victims, Here Jango some interesting reading:
Not according to a new survey of 192 women who became pregnant through sexual assault and either had abortions or carried term. Instead, the consensus opinion of these women who have actually been in this situation is that abortion in their circumstances was injurious. Indeed, the results of this new study suggest that most women who become pregnant through sexual assault do not even want abortions.
Taken from : http://www.afterabortion.org/news/Victims.html
And God not being directly involed is crap, with a big C, Maybe not in your life due to YOUR Choices, But He is operating Big time in mine. And if a fetus breates, its alive, In fact you stated,
This seems to state clearly that Adam's personhood started when he took his first breath
There for Conception would consitue person hood!
You took a sentence and disregard all else. What a wicked and mean spirited thing to do.
And as far as rape victims, Here Jango some interesting reading:
Not according to a new survey of 192 women who became pregnant through sexual assault and either had abortions or carried term. Instead, the consensus opinion of these women who have actually been in this situation is that abortion in their circumstances was injurious. Indeed, the results of this new study suggest that most women who become pregnant through sexual assault do not even want abortions.
Taken from : http://www.afterabortion.org/news/Victims.html
And God not being directly involed is crap, with a big C, Maybe not in your life due to YOUR Choices, But He is operating Big time in mine. And if a fetus breates, its alive, In fact you stated,
This seems to state clearly that Adam's personhood started when he took his first breath
There for Conception would consitue person hood!
Jango
New Member
The Old Testament is as valid as the New Testament.[b said:
Remember God wrote the Law.
Did you see the part "If any mischeif follow..."?[b said:
But I consider it alright and not murder, and I believe you are wrong.[b said:
PapaToad
Active Member
The Old Testament is as valid as the New Testament.
No Christ dies for our sins and gave us the great comission and the greatest Laws, it is a guide but it does not have thesame laws as the NT.
And I am glad you think your write, but if ver you are in a circumstance where you are gonna inflence an abortion please review the website I gave you(posted here)
No Christ dies for our sins and gave us the great comission and the greatest Laws, it is a guide but it does not have thesame laws as the NT.
And I am glad you think your write, but if ver you are in a circumstance where you are gonna inflence an abortion please review the website I gave you(posted here)
Arkanjel
New Member
Ok DV you got me. There really is no biblical basis for the 6 finger thing. However there is real world basis for it. Native american indians would raise there hand when greeting strangers. *Hand raise* "How" My understanding of the reason for this ( im sorry this is not government school acredited....I dont believe in Govt schools) was to show the number of fingers when coming upon those they didnt know. The race of Giants that lived in the land during the same time and previously USUALLY had six fingers. These Indians wanted to know who they were dealing with. There is plenty of evidence to prove that a race of giants inhabited this country and built burial mounds and what not before we ever came here. Most of the evidence has been destroyed due to stupidity and other malevelent intents. Six fingers is a genetic trait that has been passed down through our genetic structure, as well as double rows of teeth, as well as giantism, and dwarfism. Lucifer's main plot was to ruin our gene pool so that the Messiah could never come about in the first place, yet God is sovereign and succeeded.
My definition of Nephilim : Offspring from the union of a demon(fallen angel) and a human female.
This same thing still goes on today with women being abducted by "aliens" (demons in disguise) and seeded to produce useable bodies to be in-dwelt by demons. I know this is some very touchy subjects and people will have their opinions. However I would ask that you please do your research before you comment on this subject. I personally have done MOUNDS of research on this stuff.
I also believe that the anti-christ will be a nephilim, maybe not in the giant sort of way, however he will have the backing of the aliens(fallen angels).
No I'm not saying that the act of rape, murder, incest...... is actually a blessing from God.
What I am saying is that IF we let God do His work in our lives we would see is His blessings in the end of it all.
God uses death and pain to get in touch with us. It seems to be the only thing that gets our attention, am I not right? If he can use that to bring someone closer to Him, then that person is better off for it because they now have a closer relationship with God.
In Christ,
Gabriel
My definition of Nephilim : Offspring from the union of a demon(fallen angel) and a human female.
This same thing still goes on today with women being abducted by "aliens" (demons in disguise) and seeded to produce useable bodies to be in-dwelt by demons. I know this is some very touchy subjects and people will have their opinions. However I would ask that you please do your research before you comment on this subject. I personally have done MOUNDS of research on this stuff.
I also believe that the anti-christ will be a nephilim, maybe not in the giant sort of way, however he will have the backing of the aliens(fallen angels).
No I'm not saying that the act of rape, murder, incest...... is actually a blessing from God.
What I am saying is that IF we let God do His work in our lives we would see is His blessings in the end of it all.
God uses death and pain to get in touch with us. It seems to be the only thing that gets our attention, am I not right? If he can use that to bring someone closer to Him, then that person is better off for it because they now have a closer relationship with God.
In Christ,
Gabriel