You're not a true believer unless you can...

[b said:
Quote[/b] (ByblosHex @ Oct. 05 2004,4:08)]No.... we chose to obey satan and to defy God. We were born with 100% free will and Adam CHOSE to defy God, IT was a choice.
Click to expand...
...

And yet, God created adam, and since he is omniscient, knew what adam would do.

It seems like a choice, but according to your logic, or lack thereof, it is most definitely NOT.

Gah. Must take a break from this...
 
I want to give you a cookie.  However, before I give you this cookie I want you to make a choice.

In one hand I hold a loaded Benelli automatic shotgun.  In the other I hold a macadamia nut cookie.

Choose.  I can shoot you with my shotgun or I can give you a cookie.

Was that really much of a choice?  What is the purpose of making you choose if I wanted to give you the cookie all along?

What is the point of giving Man Free Will if God already knows the outcome?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Better question yet, would "man" have fallen if God didn't tell Adam that he couldn't eat from the tree?
Click to expand...

How could he have fallen then? Without that rule set in place, then Adam and Eve would have done nothing wrong, right?

All along I have asserted that God MEANT for Man to fall. That was His intention all along.

By the way, some theologians have a problem with Satan being the serpent in the Garden of Eden. There is nothing to actually indicate that he was the serpent.
 
If there was no ability to choose, there is no freewill. God did not mean for man to fall, men fell because men had the capability to choose to do so. God meant for man to choose Gods way above their own way. And if they choose their own way, God would (did) provide a way back to be reconciled.

If God truly meant for people to be sent to hell, then his death on the cross was for nothing. Jesus on the cross is your choice. His way, or your way.
 
--there is some editing done in here--

In some respects, it is not unlike the bully. Except the bully never discourages you from choosing the shotgun, he switches the cookie for the gun when you do select the cooky. And the bully tends to shoot you with the shotgun right away. God gives you your whole lifetime to choose over and over and over and over again. Eventually, the obstinate gets their wish.

But God does not have a shotgun in his other hand. He doesn't switch behind his back. He offers eternal life according to his will or according your will.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Gods_Peon @ Oct. 05 2004,4:46)]
Click to expand...
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]If there was no ability to choose, there is no freewill. God did not mean for man to fall, men fell because men had the capability to choose to do so. God meant for man to choose Gods way above their own way. And if they choose their own way, God would (did) provide a way back to be reconciled.
Click to expand...

God DID mean for Man to fall. To say anything to the contrary would put His creation into doubt and question the omniscience of Him.

Answer a simple question: Assuming God's omniscience, did God know prior to Man's creation that he would choose to eat the fruit and fall?

If the answer is yes, then you must admit that God created man knowing full well that he would fall. Thus, God condoned, endorsed and INTENDED for man to fall.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]If God truly meant for people to be sent to hell, then his death on the cross was for nothing. Jesus on the cross is your choice. His way, or your way.
Click to expand...

"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Gods_Peon @ Oct. 05 2004,4:48)]
Click to expand...
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]--there is some editing done in here--

In some respects, it is not unlike the bully. Except the bully never discourages you from choosing the shotgun, he switches the cookie for the gun when you do select the cooky. And the bully tends to shoot you with the shotgun right away. God gives you your whole lifetime to choose over and over and over and over again. Eventually, the obstinate gets their wish.
Click to expand...

I thought my analogy was just fine. God WANTS you to have the cookie. That is the whole point of asking you to choose. Not only do non-theists not like cookies, they don't believe the baker exists.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]But God does not have a shotgun in his other hand. He doesn't switch behind his back. He offers eternal life according to his will or according your will.
Click to expand...

So we have a choice of eternal life in heaven or eternal life in hell. You're right. God isn't holding a shotgun, he's holding a BGF 9000.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Gods_Peon @ Oct. 05 2004,4:46)]If there was no ability to choose, there is no freewill.  God did not mean for man to fall, men fell because men had the capability to choose to do so.  God meant for man to choose Gods way above their own way.  And if they choose their own way, God would (did) provide a way back to be reconciled.

If God truly meant for people to be sent to hell, then his death on the cross was for nothing.  Jesus on the cross is your choice.  His way, or your way.
Click to expand...
All things considered, the only logical conclusion is that god meant for man to fall. God is omniscient, god created man, man falls, god knew man would fall, god meant for man to fall. Not a pleasant thought, ey?
 
You are assuming creationism to be true, but that's another issue.

The point is this: If god created us knowing full well that we would 'screw up,' is it right for him to condemn us for it?
 
Here's a Q
Y do u think a all knowing god would create man just for us to fall?
U said
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Yeah, got allowed us to screw up. Because if he didnt I would have never existed.
Click to expand...

Does that mean I am here because of his mistake.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top