You're not a true believer unless you can...

I belong to Satan as much as I belong to God. I serve no master.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]You choose to give into the temptation, Satan created them because Satan chose to do them.
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Guess what? You choose to give into temptation too don't you? You still sin, even though you have the Holy Spirit dwelling within you. Does Satan own you? Or is Satan stronger than the Holy Spirit?

Byblos, God knows everything does He not? If He does, then why the need for all of this? Why the need for this world? Isn't it enough for God to look into our hearts? According to you it was enough for those who never knew his Word. So why go through all this rigamarole?
 
You serve Sin, you serve Satan. Sin is your master.

I do sin because I choose to. I know it is wrong but I choose to let temptaion control me.

Byblos created us because some of us will follow and love him. He does look into our hearts but he still gives you the choice and chance. If he never gave you the chance to choose and jeust went by what he knew you would choose that would be unfair. He gives us all the choice and you and MR Bill have many chances.
 
Peon, would you mind clarifying this verse?

"We have different gifts, according to the grace given us." Rom 12:6.

This sounds like grace is given on a sliding scale, not everyone has the same amount of grace.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I belong to Satan as much as I belong to God. I serve no master.
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Everybody serves a master. Absolutely everybody is under some authority and we all choose which authority we choose to serve.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]You serve Sin, you serve Satan. Sin is your master.
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Get this through your head: I do not serve Sin. I do not Serve Satan. Satan isn't my master. Sin isn't my master. Does this mean I always do the right thing? No, it doesn't. Serving sin and committing sin are two VERY different things.

I HAVE NO MASTER.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I do sin because I choose to. I know it is wrong but I choose to let temptaion control me.
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When I do wrong I know I did wrong. It's called having cognitive capacity and remorse. Again, what is the point in having the Holy Spirit if there is no difference in you or I? It doesn't seem to help you any.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Byblos created us because some of us will follow and love him. He does look into our hearts but he still gives you the choice and chance. If he never gave you the chance to choose and jeust went by what he knew you would choose that would be unfair. He gives us all the choice and you and MR Bill have many chances.
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Exactly how is that fair? There are many of us that will not choose your God. God knows this, He knew it before He created this world. Yet He created us knowing full well that He would eventually damn us to Hell. Gee thanks God.
 
He created oyu knowing you would Defy him.... YOu sre still choosing to do so, hes just letting you make the choice.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Gods_Peon @ Oct. 05 2004,11:47)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I belong to Satan as much as I belong to God.  I serve no master.
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Everybody serves a master.  Absolutely everybody is under some authority and we all choose which authority we choose to serve.
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Peon, are you getting all existential on me?
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Fine.

I DO indeed serve a master.

I serve myself.

I am my own master.

Satisfied?
 
You dont have complete control over yourself, you are tempted by Sin and you obey it. You obey Satan. He is your master. I defy Satan and Fight him, I obey God. God is my master. Its one or the other.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ByblosHex @ Oct. 05 2004,11:49)].. and by default we serve sin and temptation. Which is Satan.
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Did you just admit that you serve Satan?

You cannot have two masters.

Do you serve God or Satan?
 
I used to server Satan but I had a change of heart and now I defy sin andnow I serve God. I have one master and it is God.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ByblosHex @ Oct. 05 2004,11:50)]He created oyu knowing you would Defy him.... YOu sre still choosing to do so, hes just letting you make the choice.
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Grab a couple of q-tips because you aren't listening.

I don't need any more chances.

I have made my decision.

If God exists, He would know that.

I am also not alone in this decision.

Therefore, God has created many people, knowing full well they would never choose Him, and has damned us long before the universe ever existed.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ByblosHex @ Oct. 05 2004,11:52)]I used to server Satan but I had a change of heart and now I defy sin andnow I serve God. I have one master and it is God.
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You TRY to defy sin, but you don't always succeed.

Does that mean that Satan is stronger than God?
 
No... that means I choose to do the wrong thing instead of the right thing. Its my weakness not God's.

God hasnt damned us before our existance, He has created you and given you the choice. you damn yourself.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]God hasnt damned us before our existance, He has created you and given you the choice. you damn yourself.
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I understand that Byblos, it's the whole Free Will thing.

HOWEVER, please try and see this from my point of view.

God knows everything, He knows what our choice would be regardless of how many chances we are given. That said, God knew, before we were born, before He created the universe that we would not choose Him. Therefore God created men and women knowing full well they would not choose Him, thus damned to Hell.

Capiche?

Free Will is a great thing, but God already knows everyone's choice, He already knows how this is going to turn out.
 
I know your point of veiw I once was just like you. I think you should be gracious God has given you the chance to at least experience life instead of just destroying you because he knew you would defy him.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ByblosHex @ Oct. 05 2004,1:48)]I know your point of veiw I once was just like you. I think you should be gracious God has given you the chance to at least experience life instead of just destroying you because he knew you would defy him.
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And remember, people like Mr. Bill and I know your point of view too, we were once believers as yourself.

I can not, in good conscious believe in something that has no basis in reality, no proof, no evidence.

Everyone has a threshold for believing in God. You obviously reached yours because you now believe. I have not reached mine.

Remember, and this is important, it's not that I don't WANT to believe, it's that I don't have a REASON to. There is no evidence to warrant the belief in God. If God exists, then He knows me. He knows what will trigger my belief in Him. All He has to do is flip that switch and I will see. He has not, however, chosen to do so. Therefore, with the evidence and proof that I have, I cannot believe in Him.
 
You couldnt have been. once Jesus is in you its forever. Going to Church and having God inside of you are not the same.

Reason: Eternal happiness amnd Joy, Escape from sin. 2 reasons that are worth anything.

He hasnt chose to because you havnt desired him to. He will not force himself into you, because then youw ill NOT have the choice He wants you to choose to love him.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]You couldnt have been. once Jesus is in you its forever. Going to Church and having God inside of you are not the same.
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You're asking a trick question here. I believed in God, Christ and Christianity as much as I possibly could. More than some, less than others. I was a follower and a believer, end of story. As much as you may not want to believe it, there are those that believed with every fiber of their being and don't believe any more.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]He hasnt chose to because you havnt desired him to. He will not force himself into you, because then youw ill NOT have the choice He wants you to choose to love him.
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Why would I have been a Christian and not desire Christ and God? That makes no sense. You can't blame everything on Free Will, it doesn't work. God could show Himself to humanity and they would still have Free Will to choose whether or not to follow Him. How does God proving His existence wipe out Free Will?
 
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