Creation vs evolution

A larger mass does not tell us that they are our evolutionary masters, even if their bulk is larger than we are, or if their genetic strands are totally screwed.
And, by eating Mammoth, that means what? Meat? What about plants? Healthy foods? Meat is not life, and meat alone does not create a healthy body.
 
I never said it made them our "evolutionary masters"... What ARE you talking about?

And NO meat does NOT alone provide a balanced diet, but it provides shed loads of protein, which is an important part of building up muscle mass. Vegetarian weight lifters are quite uncommon.

Eon
 
Vegetarians, however, are far more healthy.
ANd I have no clue what I wrote. I meant to say ancestors. How I wrote masters...oh, I think it's cause I was singing along with Master of Puppets by Metallica. Then I just wrote masters at the wrong time.
MY bad. You have to understand, meat doesn't provide larger bones, though it does contain many nutrients plants and fruits don't provide. However, eating the shrubs going out of the ground isn't going to make our Neanderthals live any longer, either. There has to be a balance. Eating four tons of hairy meat, minus the tusks, is super good for muscle and bone, but not for overall body structure. You need everything to live healthily. And that includes vitamins not found in meat.
 
I agree with you totally... But the whole point of my statement is that Neanderthal bones show large muscle anchor points denoting a higher muscle/weight ratio than our own Cro-Magnon forebears. So eating lots of protein WOULD help in that case.
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Eon
 
Quickly.....can I ask that, just suppose, in my far-fetched, bogus, creationist view: mammoths existed in the times of...Adam? And, uh, mankind back in the days of Adam perhaps.....ate mammoth? And perhaps....got big and strong? After all, it is Genesis 6:4 "There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men." Giant brutes....kinda like Neanderthals? It goes on to call them men of renown. That means these dudes were legendary.
Just possibly, the type of people that exist today and existed back then, are one and the same? And the older people ate mammoth? Potentially?
Ehh, Eon, I hate to do this, but may I ask you, a potential evolutionist: HOW can order come from chaos? Chaos comes for order. All science supports this. We do not get better with age. We die off, slowly, quickly, one or the other. Cells do not keep on getting stronger. They reach a peak and die. Evolution denies that. It says we're still getting tougher, stronger, better.
How can evolution tell a body, which is used to a certain altitude, say, sea level, that goes to the higher altitude mountain levels, to gain more red blood cells to compensate for the drastic change in atmospheric effects on the body? To breathe heavier to compensate for shorter breath?
How can evolution tell muscle to grow after certain physical force is applied to them continuously? How can evolution tell bone to grow larger to compensate for the amount of weight being lifted often? How can it tell cells to clean up and be wasted? HOW?
 
Well, your whole body grows from a single cell - so that's one example.

The problem is, and always has been, that creationists are trying to cram everything into a tiny, tiny space. If it doesn't happen within a decade, then it doesn't exist to you people.

Sooner or later all the systems that have been created WILL find their way down the "gravity well" into disolution and decay. Unless, of course, our far flung ancestors learn enough to transcend those rules and break the energy curve somehow. Who knows?

Eon
 
But evolution denies our fall into death...we're constantly adapting and changing, so they say, and evolving past what we are now...how can that be when every known science does not support that? It is scientific truth that all things tend to a state of disorder...
 
We are evolving, adapting and improving - but it is essentially a pointless progression next to the big picture. That's what Chaos theory is all about. We may get better, but will we get better enough to survive an ELE like the Nemesis asteroid, or the next Ice Age or a nearmiss by a Black Hole, or the Earth eventually being swallowed by the sun...

Eon
 
I don't think we evolved is the whole freaking point!
What about those questions I asked? About cell compensation, about cell reaction.
HEre's another: how did evolution know our eyes should be wired backwards so that they don't fry when exposed to the sun? How did evolution know that plants' stomata should be located on the underside of the plant so that it wouldn't torch up in the sun or drown in the rain? HOW?! There is no freaking way an animal knows that.
There is no way that the wombat knew that its pouch should grow inside rather than out. No freaking way.
How could evolution know that the planet needed such and such percentages and segregation of cells to allow and prevent certain things from happening?! GAH! Mind going crazy. No amount of science can answer stuff like this. Science can't answer value. Science can't answer purpose. Science can't answer goals. What's the point of man if all we did is evolve? Geez. If you answer nothing and I am an evolutionist, geez, I would plug myself through the head so fast it's not even funny.
But hey. Take creationism. They say God exists. Say we're in his image. Say we're here to worship him and preach his book to the rest of the world so that more people can worship him, so that he can be on a relationship with us all. Say we're going to have a purpose: to glorify and be one with him at the end. Say all that...then there's purpose. Without God, dude, there's nothing.
 
Immortality is the anti-thesis of evolution so, of course, we are programmed to wear out - to pass the torch to the next generation in the form of our genetic material.

Here's a question for you - if evolution is false, then what's the point of reproduction and death? Surely God's plan would have been better served by a stable population of immortals - people who could see the signs for themselves, and prepare properly, rather than relying on priests and books to recount history to them?

If the sole purpose of the world is supporting human kind whilst we make our choice to glorify God or not, then don't you think it's just a teensy bit overcomplicated?

I think the real issue is contained in your post - you are far too afraid of the atheists being right. You're freaked that without your Jehova security blanket, telling you that you'll be cherished and protected in the afterlife, you'd have to make what you do down here count.


Eon
 
I think they eco systyem is plenty fine and in working order. Kudos to God on that one. Creatures can adapt to their surroundings, bravo!

I think things are too perfect to just happen by chance. But what if it was all chance and my relatives are fish and disregard acreaologist finds about the Bible and it's history etc. So, I'm a Christian and a good person. I die leaving a good impression. I keep my cool in tough situations. This Jesus security blanket has helped me through many of tough times. If it's all wrong..what do I lose?

Partying and puking in the toilet? sounds like a hoot!

Having numerous sexual partners? I don't want that reputation or it's consequences!

what is there to lose by thinking that we are here for a purpose and not by chance.

pride-no I can't do it all on my own

purpose- in life-hmm maybe there is another will besides my own.

I have no regrets. If (and I highly doubt it) I'm wrong either the lights go out when I die, or I come back as a squirrel.
 
I don't know if this is tangent to the topic or not, but I'm going to post about the invalidity of evolution:

For evolution to be a fact, you must have two things, minimally. First, you've got to have life coming from non-life--abiogenesis. Second, you've got to have a change in that life from simple forms to complex forms over time. You must have the kick-off, and you must have the rest of the game.

Now, here's my question: How did life come from non-life? How did the game get started? Does anyone know? Guess what? Nobody knows. Oh, there are some ideas and people have suggested some possible ways, but nobody has sketched out any way that really answers the question. There are so many problems and complications. There are competing models that have been suggested, but they're just starting places. They're just ways of saying, "Let's start here, and we'll see where it leads." There are possibilities, but no one knows how it happened, or even how it could have happened in enough detail to be compelling."

Now, If you don't know how it happened by naturalistic, evolutionary processes, how do you know that it happened by naturalistic, evolutionary processes? Evolution is claimed to be a fact, but you can't have the fact of evolution unless you have the fact of abiogenesis. Yet nobody knows how such a thing could ever take place. In fact, there is no evidence that abiogenesis has ever occured, and the 6 billion people on this earth, not including the animals, are evidence that it does not and has not occured. They are all evidence that life comes from life: humans come from humans, animals from animals, in the end life comes from life. And if life can't be shown to have come from non-life, then the game can't even get started.

Now, you could circumvent the life from non-life predicament by adopting theistic evolution, whereby life could come from non-life via. God. If anyone actually advocates that, I'll gladly provide arguments against the inconsistency and illogical nature of that idea.
 
To start, I would like to say thank you to Ultima for sticking with this thread. About Neanderthals:They are not early humans; in fact their culture was quite advanced. Archaeologists have actually unearthed several Neanderthals that had been buried with metal wepons and tools. Also, if we believe in evolution, then why is there only 1 foot of dust on the surface of the moon? If the moon was millions of years old, then because of it's lack of atmosphere, there should be much more. How do you explain polystrate fossils? Or if the Grand Canyon is millions of years old and the Colorado wittled it's way down, it would have built up quite a delta with all the soil from the area, but there is no delta at the end of the Colorado River.That means about 9 million cubic feet of dirt is missing...
 
Long time no see! After much back-and-forth I got the cpu back in working order.Now to the subject.


Mr_Eon Posted on Mar. 10 2003,1:57
[b said:
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Here's a question for you - if evolution is false, then what's the point of reproduction and death? Surely God's plan would have been better served by a stable population of immortals - people who could see the signs for themselves, and prepare properly, rather than relying on priests and books to recount history to them?
Click to expand...

Mr.Eon,you're absolutely right.God's original plan was immortality for humans.However,because man thought he had a better idea,he disobeyed God's law and brought death,through sin,into the world.

For since by man came death,by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.For as in Adam all die,even so in Christ all shall be made alive. I Cor. 15:21-22

As long as our hope rests in Christ Jesus for our salvation,we need not fear death.

Its great be in here again after so long(though some may disagree
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)Catch ya'll later.

                                       Alien2385
 
Well, gee... If it was God's plan then it would have come to pass - otherwise what's the point in being omnipotent and omniscient?

Eon
 
Eon, I never said it was improbable, I said there is no evidence that is has occured EVER. As I said, we have never observed or have any record of abiogenesis, and as I previously stated, we have 6 billion plus human beings to attest that it does not occur (plus animals).That's it's POSSIBLE, is not a rebuttal to the idea that we have no evidence of abiogenesis having occured, and in fact, VAST volumes of evidence to the contrary.
 
There's no real empirical evidence that man was created whole, either... Find me the makers mark...

Little things, like men supposedly being short a rib and so forth have proven to be apocryphal...

Eon
 
Neanderthals aren't evolutionary ancestors is my point Sprey. They're just humans, humans with metal knowledge. I highly doubt that 13th century Danes buried all their swords and armor alongside some weird skeletons they found outside around their lands...sounds kinda farfetched. Or for anyone to do that...I'm starting to think Neanderthals are just humans. Kinda like squirrels are really small humans. After all, in a few million years, they'll be alongside us right?....right?
Eon, there is this gigantic gap in your (the universal "your" not you particularly) brain where you just repel all explanation of the Will and Plan of God I think. Why did God make us if he's just going to kill us? Why did he make us if we're just going to disobey him? Why why why why! COME ONE COSMIC ONE! ANSWER ME! Yeah. We don't get the answer. There are some things that will never be answered. God created man for his glory. He wanted someone to worship him, and have a world all to their selves to hang out in and have fun in while doing it. However, man, with his highly evolved brain, decided to do the one, most simple thing he was not supposed to do: eat a freaking fruit. A fruit. A FRUIT. A fruit that would tell him what's bad and what's good. Upon doing that, he figures out that it was bad to disobey God, ergo, byebye ADam and Eve and cursed be the globe thanks to you.
God has a weird PLan. There I said it. I'm a heretic now. He has a weird plan and he has got a weird sense of humor. Something I guess only He gets. The Ultimate Inside Joke. He made us. WE fell. Now we have a choice to love him or leave him. For some twisted reason, most people like to leave him. Wow. Imagine that. WEll, guess what, he's got a 2000 page record telling you exactly WHY you shouldn't leave him...and you do. Whoop de doo. No wonder we have a nice place called hell set aside for those who side with Satan.
And note: God didn't make hell for us. He made it for the demons. BUt when we left him, we were as separated from him as the demons were. So we get to go to that place that they're going to. he doesn't want us to go to hell. He wants to save as many as possible. Even those in hell wanted to save people from going to hell, a la Rich Man and Lazarus parable (Luke 16:19-31). Hell ain't gonna be no party. IN fact, there will be different levels for it for different levels of sinful people on this world, as it states in Scripture. AS we can store up treasures in heaven by obeying God as a CHristian, we can store up wrath for ourselves by our sins against God. ANd for the religious leaders who lead those astray, it will be FAR worse for them than for those they lead astray.
He knew what would happen. He could have stopped it. In fact, Jesus Christ coulda said, "Screw you guys, I'm going home." and hopped off the cross. He had angels on high waiting to retrieve him at the order. But he died. Poo, right? Then he resurrected. Great God, he came back alive! Aren't those Jews powerful enough to keep one measly, beaten, dying, bleeding, hurt, pained man in a tomb longer than three days? They had a freaking boulder in front of the entrance...and two Roman sentries! What's so hard about this? After all, he was just a criminal worthy of crucifixion....yeah, bull.
You can't keep God down. We sinned. We fell. On our own. God didn't have to die for us. But he did. For us. So we could be with him one day. He had all this planned out. ANd was ready for it. We made our choice. Now we're stuck with the consequences. God knew this. And he gave one simple order that would have prevented this all. And we didn't. We can simply be branded by alien races in space as the "GALACTIC FOOLS".
 
It's like this... There's no empirical proof that your God is any more or less powerful than the ones or one worshipped or not worshipped by anyone else. They ALL have books of folk lore...

Does the fact that Archaeologists found Ancient Troy on roughly the site mentioned in Homers Odyssey mean that actually it's the Ancient Greeks who had it right all along? Not necessarily... Even given that we stil view them as the creators of modern politics, philosophy and science.

I don't side with Satan - I don't believe in HIM either! He's a strawman created to try and keep you sheep in your pens. That's what I believe. You believe differently - good for you. But you need a healthy dollop of faith in the unknowable to do so - pardon me if I have faith in what I wish to believe in, rather than what YOU wish to believe in.


Eon
 
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