Healing ...

[Medjai]

You do realize that parents have killed their children trying to 'rid' them of 'evil spirits'?

If you don't believe me, I can gladly provide sources.

The Bible is a book of fictional stories (sometimes set in real locations). Irregardless, I think it would be wiser to assume a prophet is false before accepting his integrity. This way you are not praising that of the work of 'Satan'.

The healers of the Bible are different than those of today. I don't think it says anywhere in the Bible that there would be any more prophets during our time. If it does, correct me.

 

[CCGR]

ok I see we have some common ground. I too am sickened by televangelists claiming to heal people and taking money and their greed etc. Jim Baker, benny Hinn etc.

we don't like to be associated with those types or getting blamed for the catholic history (inquistion, burning witches etc)

Most of us here are Bible believing Christians which means that we follow the 10 commandments and believe in Jesus Christ. We are hate the sin but love the sinner. Although I don't agree with homosexuality you won't find me out there killing gays or people perfoming abortions and saying "God made me do it"

Those people disgust me

 

[Medjai]

I am glad we have something we can agree on.

 

[Ultima Avatar]

Wow...he's being civil. Could it be our witness? (Har har har.)

Thanks for not comparing us to televangelists (Ken Copeland, Ben Hinn, and sickoes that melt religions together and say they all serve to the same end (e.g., sickoes=America, relgions=Christianity and Islam).

Umm...if you actually read the Bible some more Medjai, you'll see that Jerusalem (you know, awesome place, right. Center of God and whatnot) killed all their prophets. In fact, they killed Isaiah. The Prophet, they called him later on. But they killed him. They always took them to be false, until what they said began to happen, and they prophesied bad stuff because they were not following God. The people of God didn't believe in their own God, and when bad stuff began to happen, they do what eveyone does: OH PLEASE MERCY...(pause of guilt and retrospect)...BACK TO THE ORGIES, GUYS!

Healers and prophets, however, Medjai, are two totally different people. In fact, at one passage, Paul lists a ton of things Christians can do. Teach, prophesy, heal, minister, et cetera. A lot of stuff.
I still don't think prophets exist today, and a lot that say they are are total nutcases. Just take a look at a lot of them and tell me it's not true.

Again, let me reiterate: 1. Not all that glitters is gold. Meaning, not everyone who says, "Lord, Lord" will enter the Kingdom of God. Meaning, not everyone who claims allegiance to Christ is a Christian.

2. If you set your sights on man for reflection of a perfect God, you will be disappointed, because man is a terrible example of the standards of God. So if you see a liar, and then you see another liar, and then you see an adulterating preacher, and then you see a homosexual bishop (cough, none of those around, are there?) and then you see a "child-lovin' " priest (definitely zero around here) and you then claim that all Christians are hypocrites, and losers, you are wrong. That is hasty generalization. There are many Christians that are real Christians. They just don't get notice because they're not as juicy as Britney Spears (who said she was Christian...) or the rapist pastor in rural Kansas. They don't make a good joke of the day, and a great playdown of Christianity's reflections of what God actually desires of us.

3. We are to aspire to God's will and obey him. That doesn't always happen. And that disappoints God. Greatly. ANd don't think being Christian is an excuse to do whatever one wants. That would be Catholicism. And Catholics have definitely stained the reputation of the church, as have authors such as Stephen King and their VERY POOR representation of what Christianity really is (e.g. Carrie, The Dead Zone, 'Salem's Lot, The Stand, Needful Things, Desperation...). So the world will tarnish our face. That's not something new to us. We expected it because our book of fictitious tales said as much. Kinda weird that our book of fictitious tales knew that.

4. Have a wonderful day, dude, and like I said, if you have anything you ever want to talk about, you can PM me with something. I enjoy arguing, but more especially, debating for my God. I am not insane. I am fully capable of my senses. In fact, some say I have a wonderful brain (debated among some circles). Yet I believe in Christ as God. And I don't use it as an excuse to bomb abortion clinics, shoot murderers in the eyes, yank out the testicles of Muslims or kick Buddhists in the shins. Why? Because He tells me that is wrong. And I try my best to listen to him. Now if you ever see me lose my temper, don't use that as an excuse against all Christians (I don't believe you are low to do such crap like that) because we're also flesh, even though we are to fight this prison of a body in all ways.

Ciao for now.

 

[mrpopdrinker]

Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Sep. 14 2003,3:01)]ok I see we have some common ground.  I too am sickened by televangelists claiming to heal people and taking money and their greed etc.  Jim Baker,

This is off topic but i just cant believe they put him back on.  

In "light" of Jim bakker I had to put this on here from another forum. 5.How many T.V. evangelists does it take to change a light bulb?
One. But for the message of light to continue, send in your donation today!!

 

[mpty]

Benny Hinn scares me.

I too do not use "I believe in Jesus" to go and kill abortionists and such.

Quote[/b] ]I don't think it says anywhere in the Bible that there would be any more prophets during our time. If it does, correct me.

There's lots of stuff that mentions false prophets!

I think there is also another thing about prophets today.. don't remember, I'm sick right now and am totally brain dead...eugh..

 

[Medjai]

I know that it speaks of false prophets, I am speaking of its never claiming that new 'real' prophets would come.

By the way, I have read the Bible, it is the very thing that turned me away from Christianity.

 

[mrpopdrinker]

Oh yes more prophets will come now where is that verse. 1Corinthians 14:1 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts especially the gift of prophecy. 1Corintians 14:39 Therefore my brothers be eager to prophesy and do not forbid speaking in tongues. So you see the anointing or prophesy has not stopped flowing!

 

[Kidan]

The thing about that word prophecy. often times it is used in place of the word teaching/preaching. The aramic (NT Language) word for prophet can be doubled as the aramic word for teacher. So the gift of prophecy can relate to pastor's and SS teacher's

 

[SSquared]

Kidan, Aramaic may have been spoken, but the NT is written in Greek. 1 Corinthians 12:28 separates the two out making prophecy and teachers distinct: And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.

This is a topic I feel passionately about, but I will spare the details. I started typing something up but it was getting too long and I gotta get ready for work.

 

[Kidan]

actually it was written in both aramaic and greek.  Kinda like, things are often written in Spanish and English side by side here in the states.  But I digress

I didn't say that there was never two distinct seperations, it's just that more often than not, prophecy probably should have been translated as teacher.

Notice that listing:
First apostles, second prophets, third teachers...

apotles, prophets, teachers.  In reverse order of the likliehood of them appearing.  i.e. There were only a handful of apostles,  there will be/are/was more prophets and then yet more teachers, and then you get the miracles, gifts, tongues. which are even more common among Christians.  Now, when I say teachers as a replacement for prohpet, I do not mean the standard run of the mill, read out of the book teacher.  I mean someone who can teach the will of God, on the fly.  Someone who understands scriptures and is able to explain them into understandable forms.

1 Cor. 13, says that we should all desire prophecy.  I do not like the english word prophet here, because the english word is normally defined as 'someone who foretells the future'  While this is possible for a prophet, IT IS NOT A CHRISTIAN PROPHET'S PRIMARY PURPOSE.  In 1Cor 13:6, Paul writes that speaking in tongues will not profit someone unless that is spoken in revelation, knowledge, prophecy or teaching.  Which is the same as saying "What point is it for me to speak, unless I'm speaking clearly (Revealed) knowingly (I'm not showing how idiotic I am), understandably (You can understand what I'm saying) and concisely (I'm making myself understood)"  Yet of even more import, go on to 1 Cor 13:24:25.  

Quote[/b] ]24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted  man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

 If all prophesy (or rather teach/pastor ) and an unbeliever enters, he is convicted by all (not judge, but rather what they are teaching, strikes at his conciense and he KNOWS he has done wrong). He is called to account by all; the secrets of his heart are disclosed (There are numerous times when as a youth teacher, I've changed my lesson at the last minute, due to prompting from the spirit, and have later found out that someone in my class was troubled by the issue I changed to).  

As I stated earlier, when I say teacher, I do not mean a rote instructor.  I mean someone who truly understands the Bible and God's Hand in their or other's lives, and can impart that understanding, that knowledge, onto others.  A prophet is not there to foretell the future.  A prophet is there to edify the church.  To build up the church.  What does it matter if a prophet can foretell the future.  Would that truly edify the church? No.  What edifies the church is the Word.  Speaking it, teaching it, making it understood.  That builds the church, draws it closer togethor and closer to God, and adds new members to the body of Christ.


Anyways, never spare the details

We do not grow and learn unless we share and read.

 

[SSquared]

Quote[/b] ]actually it was written in both aramaic and greek.

Interesting.  Do you have any reference to that?  There might be small phrases originally written in Aramaic on the basis of Jesus using it.  For example, "My God, My God, etc." was probably written in Aramaic.

OK, well...here goes.

Although I agree with most of what you say, I still believe there is a definite distinction between prophecy and teaching.  Prophecy is used to encourage.  It can be a word from the Bible...it can be touching someone at their moment in need...it can simply be to say, "Jesus loves you."  It is a word from God that is needed at just the right moment.  That is different and separate from a teacher, who imparts biblical knowledge and understanding.

Quote[/b] ]it's just that more often than not, prophecy probably should have been translated as teacher

Why should it have been translated differently?  The Greek word used tends to mean a word revealed by revelation.  That, to me, is not teaching but prophecy.  Is there an example where the Greek for prophecy can be translated as teacher?

Quote[/b] ]Notice that listing:
First apostles, second prophets, third teachers...

Now, when I say teachers as a replacement for prohpet, I do not mean the standard run of the mill, read out of the book teacher.  I mean someone who can teach the will of God, on the fly.  Someone who understands scriptures and is able to explain them into understandable forms.

Then what is a teacher to you?  What you wrote is how I define a teacher.  Perhaps this is just a difference of definitions.

..and here is where I disagree.  I do not see your example where you suddenly switched your message at the last minute as being an aspect of teaching.  I see that as tending towards prophecy.  The Spirit was prompting you in what to say that would be beneficial that particular day.  You are using both prophecy and teaching together, yet they are two distinct gifts.

Quote[/b] ]In 1Cor 13:6, Paul writes that speaking in tongues will not profit someone unless that is spoken in revelation, knowledge, prophecy or teaching.  Which is the same as saying "What point is it for me to speak, unless I'm speaking clearly (Revealed) knowingly (I'm not showing how idiotic I am), understandably (You can understand what I'm saying) and concisely (I'm making myself understood)"

My interpretation is different.  I see it as, when we speak, a believer will only be edified if it is through one of the following Spirit-led gifts: revelation, knowledge, prophecy, or teaching.  I'm a little confused on your interpretation.  Funny thing is, prophecy here is actually used differently than in other places, leading to revelation and prophecy both being stated.

Quote[/b] ] If all prophesy (or rather teach/pastor ) and an unbeliever enters, he is convicted by all

I am still not sure how you can use teach/pastor here for the word prophecy.  The unbeliever is convicted because the prophet spoke a God-given revelation meant for that particular moment in time.  The teacher, on the other hand, gives biblical knowledge.  In this particular case, it is the prophecy, not the teaching, convicting the person/people.  As your example shows, people are capable of working with both prophecy and teaching at the same time.  But I still suggest they are two separate gifts.  Also, unless the Greek is wrong, the Greek word used here is clearly different from the word from teacher.

I am glad you agree prophet's are capable of foretlling the future.  And though God can give them that ability, I agree, it's not their primary purpose.

I also believe prophets are capable of seeing inside someone and/or revealing that which is hidden.  They can look at someone and know something is bothering someone.  The Spirit may even give them the exact emotion the person is feeling (sad, melancholy, angry, hurt, etc.).  One of my favorite examples of this is Nathan and David.  God supernaturally revealed to Nathan what David had done.  And this was an encouragment because it was the catalyst for David to finally repent.

 

[Ultima Avatar]

Actually, from what I've seen of several prophets: they foretold a possible future.
They always coupled it with a warning for repentance...or else they would feel the wrath of God for screwing around with him one too many times. So basically, Jonah: prophesy to them and say that God's gonna wipe Nineveh into a napalmed scrap of blackened dust...if they don't repent.
Guess what? They repented. Their possible future was averted.
But the prophets also give the end-result of changing from their ways, namely, another end result: salvation for the Ninevites.
Prophets don't fortell what WILL happen...what may happen. I dunno. Maybe they do. Maybe it's a mix of may/will. Or maybe it's just a "may" thing.

 

[SSquared]

In general, prophets, as they are in the Old Testament, do not exist today. But that's true. They prophesied what WAS going to happen, but there is a way of salvation.

I believe prophecy can still be future telling even today. I've witnessed it. It's just, that is not the main reason for the gift of prophecy.