Healing ...

K

kasimir

New Member
mrpop, I guess that I would like to comment more in detail but my eyes are giving in and I need to get up early tomorrow...just a few comments on your last statement though....
Yes.. through His stripes we are healed.... but ask any one who have stood on their knees for years and trusted God for healing of someone in their family that it is not that simple ....

Joh 11:4 But when Jesus heard it, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified thereby
[ASV]

as Stormy said

Quote
I hope your cousin is the miracle. I hope he wakes up, walks away, and people stand in awe at the work of God in his life. At the same time, I hope you're the miracle, and people see your pain for him, and the strength that comes from your faith in Christ, and they stand in awe at the work of God in your life.

....

First of all. God's will is supreme and if He has a purpose with a life on earth then that is His decision .... Our son has a immunity disorder and some added issues that we have prayed over and God has blessed us with some healing but we have had words that He has a purpose with our son ... We didn't stop believing or praying but realise that it lies in Fathers hands... I know of too many people that have lost their faith totally because people went to them and told them : "well, you are not healed because you do not believe" ... But , it is a highly personal subject I think.....because if what you say is strictly true, then why do we pray "Father heal this man .." Shouldn't we then pray, "Father, may this man receive healing and believe it...." ....

(Isa 53:5) But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities:the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
[kjv]

The word in the greak used for healed is Rapha .... and although I am not a Greek scholar (Kidan??) a mate of mine who did study this said recently that the context of the original text makes a lot of difference to the meaning of words....

rapha
raw-faw'
A primitive root; to slacken (in many applications, literally or figuratively): - abate, cease, consume, draw [toward evening], fail, (be) faint, be (wax) feeble, forsake, idle, leave, let alone (go, down), (be) slack, stay, be still, be slothful, (be) weak (-en).

rapha
raw-faw', raw-faw'
A primitive root; properly to mend (by stitching), that is, (figuratively) to cure: - cure, (cause to) heal, physician, repair, X thoroughly, make whole.

So let me leave it like this saying that God heals ... we can all attest to that ... but sometimes God says Yes, and sometimes No ...and sometimes Wait.... and that takes nothing away from His sovereignity (sp?) ....
 
I dident even bother reading your description on rapha because its the context that matter god is called Yehweh (or Jehova) Rapha which meens the God who is my healer does it not? God has made us to be his temples hes not going to live in a filthy sick broken temple, first we are cleansed of sins then healing will come over us if we have faith because god loves us! It is not God's will for me you or anyone to live in sickness and disease. The love of God gives therefor if we have faith and stand in god we will recieve our healing. What love is is wanting the other person to be happy so when i say God you said i dident have to put up with this by your stripe i am healed and i hold fast to that the maifestation of that healing will come. When a person says well im sick i guess theres a reason for it and im just supposed to endure hardness like a good soldier thank you god you must be teaching me somthing then god will honor that and you wont get healed.
 
but you also have to remember that God is going to refine us, and for some people that is through sickness, and it also helps us depend on him more when we are sick, or a loved one is, and he sometimes will use it for our testimonies.

just because you are a christian doesnt mean God will heal you of your sickness, He WILL give you comfort, and maybe understanding, but that is fake religion.

Oh come to God and you will never be sick or hurt because God doesnt want a broken place to live in, man i am sorry but God ONLY uses broken people.
By his Stripes we are healed, referring not to a physical healing but a spiritual healing with our heavenly Father
 
God has lived in me during my times of having a cold...and when I had the flu (I think it was...it sucked really badly for about five days) and has lived in several Christians who have received cancer.
Many, many, many who are sick and do believe and have their faith in Jesus Christ are not healed. Why? Who knows? It's a sad thing it is, but God doesn't always heal.
My mom seems to think that if you ask God, he'll deliver. I told her that's true enough, but not for 100% of the time, not in the way she sees it. Instance...
"Bob is sick with Plague 92. Bob and family and friends and Billy Graham have all prayed for Bob to be healed and be free from this disease. Bob dies. Graham and friends and family all go away and ask God why. No answer. Life goes on."
Even in death, you are freed from the sicknesses and diseases and plagues to the flesh. Everything goes in death. So maybe by killing Bob God did free him from the disease. Or maybe it was for His Will that Bob died. Who knows? All we know is that Bob is free from Plague 92 in the grave.
Millions come to Christ because of the testament of Bob's last hours. Several of these millions get sick throughout their life. Yet God still works in them.


You do not have to be in peak physical form for God to make good use of you. I know a ton of fat pastors and I don't think their words are less heard because of the number of their fat cells.
besides, as humans, we can never attain peak purity from disease or marring or weakness. We are flesh, and there is something in our flesh that causes us to weaken and die and that is called sin. As long as we live we ARE NEVER FREE FROM SIN. Only in death in Christ can you be free. And until every man dies and the end comes, man can never be perfected...and does God not still work in you before death?
 
ok, to answer questions, this is in order of the way they caught my attention

Notes on Isa53:5
[b said:
Quote[/b] ](Isa 53:4)  Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows; yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

(Isa 53:5)  But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

(Isa 53:6)  All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and Jehovah hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

(Isa 53:7)  He was oppressed, yet when he was afflicted he opened not his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth.
Click to expand...

Remember we always look around the verses in question.
These verses are describing Christ.  they talk about how he was scourged (stripes), that we, like dumb sheep run away from God, and rather than punish us, God punished His son (53:6). And when we realize that these verses are talkingabout sin and salvation (Christ's work) then these passages take a new meaning. Sin is a disease belonging to all men, a natural, hereditary, nauseous, and incurable one, but by the blood of Christ; forgiving sin is a healing of this disease; and this is to be had, and in no other way, than through the stripes and wounds, the blood and sacrifice, of the Son of God. Christ is a wonderful physician; he heals by taking the sicknesses of his people upon himself, by bearing their sins, and being wounded and bruised for them, and by his enduring blows, and suffering death itself for them.

On John 11:4.  this is a simple statement, and I have mentioned the concept behind it many times.  What happens is not important, why things happens to us is not important, the only thing of importance is how we REACT to what happens, whether we allow things to destory us, or whether we allow things to draw us closer to Christ.


This is not the to say that Divine Healing cannot and does not happen (2 Kings 20:5-6, Matthew 4:23-24, Luke 9:1-2, 1 Corinthians 12:5-11 are verses relevant to that discussion)  But that divine healing is always at God's prompting, and on His time schedule, and even still may never get healed (Paul suffered some form of ailment the last third to half of his life, and though himself, and others prayed for healing, it never came.  Likewise Timothy suffered some form of stomach problems).

Just remember that all things that happens to us, are designed to bring us closer to God.  Whether it be good or bad, we are to seek God for either consolation or to give praise.
 
Ok i can see this is going to be a long post oh where to begin. Lion i know that god can only use broken vessles and i know somthing like that would be said however what i ment i cant describe in no other way. Lets see now refining yes i said god does wait and give us a test of faith and if we endure that test of faith we are healed , by enduring a test of faith i dont meen you say glory to Jesus i am healed then you call your attorney and say make sure my will is in order just in case. I am sorry  but I beleive that god has given us spiritual authority to raise the dead heal the sick make the blind see and cast out demons and to call those things that be not as though they where. Take the example of the sick women Matthew 9:22 Jesus turned and saw her "take heart daughter your faith has healed you" I believe that verse pretty much says if we have faith we are healed. Not enough? How about this Matthew 9:29 then he touched there eyes and said "according to your faith it be done to you" Faith i have always been taught is the currency of heaven these verses unmistakebly say if you have faith you are healed.
 
MrPopDrinker, in the thread where this originally came from, you had also mentioned, God says yes and wait but never no. I disagree, as Kidan has already pointed out the Paul scenario.

Disease and sickness come simply because we live in a fallen/sinful world. They are a result of a sinful world. Our pespective is ETERNAL. Believe me, I agree 100% we should pray for physical healing and honestly have the faith to believe Christ can do it.

I think of David and his son who was born out of sin. God told him his son was going to die, but David prayed and prayed. His son did die, but I don't believe it was out of a lack of faith. It was because of sin, and the consequence of sin. That said, I'm not suggesting bad things happen only due to sin. Again, we live in a fallen world and so bad things just happen. Job is the classic example.

When it really comes down to it, we all lack faith. If we didn't, we would probably be sinless. I like what that one dude said to Jesus. "I believe. Help my unbelief." I love that.

Oh well, I'm sort of getting off and rambling so I will stop here.
 
As far as the paul situation im assuming you are talking about when he prayed about having a thorn in his side and God sayd my grace is sufficient, i believe that this thorn in his said was the persecution and mocking he was going through. Kidan please tell me what verse that timothy sufferd from stomach problems. As far as david in his son and im assuming you meen old testament king David that was in the old testament we are under a new covenant now through Jesus the christ!
 
ok, yes Paul's thorn could be persecution, yet taken into context with Ga 4:13-15,  I always assumed it was some form of sickness.  Yet the verses do not have to go togethor, and they can both stand alone.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses. 1Tim 5:23 (NIV)
Click to expand...


Your comment about old and new covenants is slightly mistaken.  God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.  If He heals on faith today, then He did it yesterday, and He will do it tomorrow, and htis extends into the Old Covenant days. (See the scripture in 2 Kings I referenced in my prev. post)  Yet as in all things, these healings are in God's time not ours.  We do not dictate to God when or why things happens (Read Job for the answer to why we don't).  We pray for things, and we get a reply. Though it's kinda like a magic 8 ball,  we get a yes, or we get a no, or we get a ask again later.  There is a reason that when we request things, we pray that if it's GOD's WILL for it to happen then it should be so.  Becuase we want what God wants for us.  What we want for us, may not be the best thing for us.
 
Also, sickness is a completely earthly view and is completely relative. This is another reason I don't think God will ALWAYS heal someone. When it comes down to it, what is the definition of a sickness? Is blindness? Is arthritis? You can take almost any sickness and there is usually someone who has gone beyond it and not allowed it to be a detriment to their life and faith.

There are people like Fanny Crosby and Ken Medema who have lived with blindness and yet their faith has been incredible and have touched many, many lives. They have been able to go beyond their blindness. Joni Erickson Tada...stuck in a wheelchair. Will she be healed? We don't know. Can God heal her? Certainly. But her current condition is not slowing her down from her faith.
 
Yes god is the same always but he still makes different covenants and we have a different authority than the old testament people. God's will is not for us to be sick like i said somtimes he will say wait so that we may develop perseverence. Ok the sickness he was talking about in galations was speaking of his blindness.
 
there have only been two covanents, the old one he made to abraham and their is the new covanent that Jesus made to us.

but both have always been based on faith
 
Sorry, lion, but that's not true.

There's been and are numerous covenants between God an Man
The most prominent are

Naohic Covenant -- God promising to not destory the earth with water again, provided man does certain things

Abrahamic Covenant -- Abraham's children become God's people, if they server Him an evidence it with circumcision

Mosaic Covenant -- The law and sacrifice

New Covenant -- Christ's sacrifice

Marriage Covnenant -- A covenant between a man, a woman and God.

Now if u wish a discussion on these various covenants, that would be another thread.
 
At least we can rest assured not every pastor is as corrupt as our Kenneth Copeland or Benny Hinn...heheh.
Kudos, Kidan. That was good.
But I still must reiterate: despite all the things faith can do (how many people do you see hurl mountains into astral orbit? Or bring up an army of skeletons redressed with flesh and muscle and tendons? It just don't happen...and yes, I think that probably was a vision Ezekiel had)...I believe faith is more for a here and now. We're a different nation than the Hebrews. They demanded a sign. God gave them one. We don't. We demand more of an "empirical proof." God gives it to us in different manners, but still we don't react. He won't appear to us and say, "Yo Billy Bob. I AM God. Now get over it." 'Else there goes faith, and we now have knowledge.

God acts differently toward different people and shows Himself differently as well. Now while I'm sure faith is strong in many individuals...the reason I don't think people walk on water is because we don't need to. And the reason Lazaruses don't walk is because they don't need to walk and we're not friends with Christ anymore: we're children. Different.

But that's all I say.
 
The thing about faith, is that if I have enough faith to move a mountain, I have enough faith not to test it.

To test your ability to move mountains, is proof that you have insufficient faith to move said mountian..
 
I like that one Kidan.
smile.gif
 
First off id like to say God doesent heal just because of faith he heals because he wants us to be happy and in good health so we can serve him faith is just somthing that enables him to do that. Thinking more on the subject lets seperate sickeness/disease from conditions now thinking more deeply on this it would seem logical that God would allow some of us conditions like kidney stones or blindness or so forth to prevent us from geeting the *im immortal perspective* however i never have to die of cancer because me having cancer isnt doing anything for God so cancer is just a name. Ultima i dont really watch him but why would kenneth copeland be corrupt? If i may ask what denomination are you guys because you guys dont really seem to believe healing is an integral part of God.
 
I believe very much so that healing is an integeral part of the Christianity. (Btw i'm a Salvationist). My point is that sometimes God will tell us 'No' or 'Later' when we request that healing.


On the seperation of sickness/disease
We know Christ healed everything from leperosy, to lameness, so why would we seperate these things? Just because WE see a difference in the common cold and cancer doesn't mean God does.
 
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