CCGR
Member
you're going to be less heard by being banned. Knock it off!
Kidan
Moderator
[b said:
Was your father and/or mother a Christian? Did your mother remarry? Did your father remarry?
Just the seperation itself is not wrong. What's wrong is the getting married again. Because then the person is committing adultery.
God does not look favorably upon divorce. The seperation he doesn't worry about, but it's when you defile yourself with someone else that it becomes sin. That is when you break your covenant with God (i.e. that whole 'till death do us part' part of the marriage covenant). That's when you begin telling God, that your thoughts are more important than His will.
While you may feel like I'm attacking your family, I am not. I am just stating what the Bible says. I do not endorse divorce. I do not endorse re-marriage, while your spouse (or ex-spouse whatever you want to call it) is still alive. More importantly, I can not find ANYTHING in the Bible to support those thoughts.
If you can find something, please do and show it to me so I can learn, but until then Matthew 19:1-10 is quite clear on the subject.
The-Messenjah
New Member
They are both Christians. this is dads 3rd seperation. he is looking at remarrying again.
but will you get over the divorce now. that is all sorted now. that isnt what i was talking about. i was saying how hypocrytical the church is, because that are saying "love and accept and aupport one another, that is what the church is there for" but they are doing the exact opposite. as i sed. when people found out that mum had split up with dad, they avioded her like she was a lepper or something. is this what christians are supposed to do?
but will you get over the divorce now. that is all sorted now. that isnt what i was talking about. i was saying how hypocrytical the church is, because that are saying "love and accept and aupport one another, that is what the church is there for" but they are doing the exact opposite. as i sed. when people found out that mum had split up with dad, they avioded her like she was a lepper or something. is this what christians are supposed to do?
Ultima Avatar
New Member
You know what dude? Half the Church is never there. Was Billy Graham at your grandma's funeral? No. Was Hudson Taylor at your grandfather's seventh birthday party? No. Geez, crap, we can't all be there. Was I there for Christmas? NO!
The Church is not a teleporter. It can't be everywhere at once. There are so many families that suffer. You're not the only one. Don't pat your back because your church didn't help. Okay? I could care less. You're not the only family to suffer. And maybe another hurting family's church DID help. OKAY?
Crap. I'm not a hypocrite if I don't give the bums in my city my life's savings, okay? I don't give the poor boy my house. Some people do it, but I don't. All right?
Most likely I would help with as much as I could, but here's a good question: DID YOU ASK for help? Some people don't like to involve themselves with the family if they don't ask for it. Hey? IT might be seen as intruding, or prodding.
You said you asked for help, but then, maybe the chruch you're going to really isn't all that Christian...I would recommend actually looking for a Christian church...not all places that bear the name: "JESUS IS LORD" really think that...just FYI.
I'm sure you know as well as I do MEssenjah Christians shouldn't do that...quit sniping. That's what you're doing, attacking at little bits of Christianity here and there.
And you are an idiot if you believe cursing is the only way to be heard. I actually stop listening. There is such a better way to communicate: BY THOUGHT AND SPEECH. You can make a sentence without saying, "****, dude, this place is ****ing, ****ed up, you know, dude? Anyways, God's ****ing cool and all that ****, but you know, ****, dude, can't think right now...****." Don't elite swear, don't swear, don't delete letters from swear words. Just don't swear. IS THAT COOL?! We can listen without cursing.
The Church is not a teleporter. It can't be everywhere at once. There are so many families that suffer. You're not the only one. Don't pat your back because your church didn't help. Okay? I could care less. You're not the only family to suffer. And maybe another hurting family's church DID help. OKAY?
Crap. I'm not a hypocrite if I don't give the bums in my city my life's savings, okay? I don't give the poor boy my house. Some people do it, but I don't. All right?
Most likely I would help with as much as I could, but here's a good question: DID YOU ASK for help? Some people don't like to involve themselves with the family if they don't ask for it. Hey? IT might be seen as intruding, or prodding.
You said you asked for help, but then, maybe the chruch you're going to really isn't all that Christian...I would recommend actually looking for a Christian church...not all places that bear the name: "JESUS IS LORD" really think that...just FYI.
I'm sure you know as well as I do MEssenjah Christians shouldn't do that...quit sniping. That's what you're doing, attacking at little bits of Christianity here and there.
And you are an idiot if you believe cursing is the only way to be heard. I actually stop listening. There is such a better way to communicate: BY THOUGHT AND SPEECH. You can make a sentence without saying, "****, dude, this place is ****ing, ****ed up, you know, dude? Anyways, God's ****ing cool and all that ****, but you know, ****, dude, can't think right now...****." Don't elite swear, don't swear, don't delete letters from swear words. Just don't swear. IS THAT COOL?! We can listen without cursing.
CCGR
Member
divorces happen, there is no reason anyone should shun anyone. Sheesh. People sin, get over it. Welcome them back with open arms.
there are many reasons for divorce. who are we to judge the single mother who divorced her abusive husband?
people are not perfect and gives groups a bad name.
there are many reasons for divorce. who are we to judge the single mother who divorced her abusive husband?
people are not perfect and gives groups a bad name.
N
nastydogtongue
Guest
Messanjah- I totally feel your frustration, but the other peeps are right, swearing on a christian forum ain't right. Still, if you need help getting through stuff, play some video games (fighting games relieve stress the best, but that's another forum) and then just go pray, or listen to God for like twenty minutes. If nothing happens, do it again tomorrow and the next day untill you hear something. Don't give up on God!! The more you read your Bible and pray and stuff, the more in-tune with the holy spirit you'll be. I'm no pastor, I'm not religious at all, I just know these things from experience.
Ultima- umm, ya. Cut the guy some slack, he wasn't attacking you, or any other Christians, he was questioning Christianity, which is only human to do. Otherwise, props to ya fer knowing what you do about the Bible. Read what I wrote to K tho.
Kidan- I didn't mean you were ignorant, just your actions. I still don't agree with how you go about telling people about the Christ, but I guess to each his own calling. You would never be able to preach to a lot of teens out there like that, nor middle age people. I still admire your knowledge of the bible and its meanings, and I didn't mean to disrespect you.
As for other things, how do you get the little white quotes to show up on the bottom? Mine won't work.
Ultima- umm, ya. Cut the guy some slack, he wasn't attacking you, or any other Christians, he was questioning Christianity, which is only human to do. Otherwise, props to ya fer knowing what you do about the Bible. Read what I wrote to K tho.
Kidan- I didn't mean you were ignorant, just your actions. I still don't agree with how you go about telling people about the Christ, but I guess to each his own calling. You would never be able to preach to a lot of teens out there like that, nor middle age people. I still admire your knowledge of the bible and its meanings, and I didn't mean to disrespect you.
As for other things, how do you get the little white quotes to show up on the bottom? Mine won't work.
Ultima Avatar
New Member
Yeah I know he wasn't attacking Christianity, but his questioning is taking on a savage stance, almost abusive. It's getting to me. I don't like it.
All right, but I would like to know: HOW WOULD YOU PREACH? How would you? Preach in bits? Then the kids die and you never got to tell the entire Gospel? No. You gotta cram. Why quit? Why stop? You need to preach the Word. You can't stop it.
All right, but I would like to know: HOW WOULD YOU PREACH? How would you? Preach in bits? Then the kids die and you never got to tell the entire Gospel? No. You gotta cram. Why quit? Why stop? You need to preach the Word. You can't stop it.
Kidan
Moderator
nasty--it just kinda shocked me y'know
actually i spend most of my time with the youth and they respond quite well since they SEE me practicing exactly what I preach. Kids today want honesty spoken and lived, they react because they see that i don't sugar coat things for them, that i live what I tell them is good and right.
They see that what the Bible says, can be accomplished, that we can live a life as Christains and that we can become more like Christ on a daily basis.
as for the little white quotes, it's under "your control panel" up there under your name,
then go to personal info -> Your profile
then half way down is the signature box, be sure to check the length, because if it's to long it won't show up
ccgr--we're not to judge, but likewise, if that single mother gets married again, she is commiting adultery.
While we should not judge, if he or she is planning on getting married again we should NOT condone.
oops, forgot to reply to messanjah
Of course it's not, and they will have to answer for that, as I said earlier, it sounded like a crummy church. Christains should always support one another, lifting each other up, while at the same time helping one another learn more about the Bible.
actually i spend most of my time with the youth and they respond quite well since they SEE me practicing exactly what I preach. Kids today want honesty spoken and lived, they react because they see that i don't sugar coat things for them, that i live what I tell them is good and right.
They see that what the Bible says, can be accomplished, that we can live a life as Christains and that we can become more like Christ on a daily basis.
as for the little white quotes, it's under "your control panel" up there under your name,
then go to personal info -> Your profile
then half way down is the signature box, be sure to check the length, because if it's to long it won't show up
ccgr--we're not to judge, but likewise, if that single mother gets married again, she is commiting adultery.
While we should not judge, if he or she is planning on getting married again we should NOT condone.
oops, forgot to reply to messanjah
Of course it's not, and they will have to answer for that, as I said earlier, it sounded like a crummy church. Christains should always support one another, lifting each other up, while at the same time helping one another learn more about the Bible.
S
Saint Judas
Guest
Hello Kidan!
I don't believe we've chatted yet, so nice to "meet" you.
I have some thoughts on some of your statements:
Kidan:[Just the seperation itself is not wrong. What's wrong is the getting married again. Because then the person is committing adultery. ....
While you may feel like I'm attacking your family, I am not. I am just stating what the Bible says. I do not endorse divorce. I do not endorse re-marriage, while your spouse (or ex-spouse whatever you want to call it) is still alive. More importantly, I can not find ANYTHING in the Bible to support those thoughts.]
There is a verse that seesm to me to indicate an exception - I'd really like to get your thoughts on it.
1 Corinthians 7:15 (NIV):
But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances.
In one translation, I believe it's the KJV, it says the man or woman in that situation is "no longer bound".
I take that to mean that they are free to re-marry.
Comments?
Best,
Saint J
I don't believe we've chatted yet, so nice to "meet" you.
I have some thoughts on some of your statements:
Kidan:[Just the seperation itself is not wrong. What's wrong is the getting married again. Because then the person is committing adultery. ....
While you may feel like I'm attacking your family, I am not. I am just stating what the Bible says. I do not endorse divorce. I do not endorse re-marriage, while your spouse (or ex-spouse whatever you want to call it) is still alive. More importantly, I can not find ANYTHING in the Bible to support those thoughts.]
There is a verse that seesm to me to indicate an exception - I'd really like to get your thoughts on it.
1 Corinthians 7:15 (NIV):
But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances.
In one translation, I believe it's the KJV, it says the man or woman in that situation is "no longer bound".
I take that to mean that they are free to re-marry.
Comments?
Best,
Saint J
Kidan
Moderator
Saint J--nice to meet u to, as for your reference, that is open to interpretation, it could mean that they are to become a celibate member of the church or that they could remarry.
IMO, and i'm judging from Christ's responses to questions on marriage, I would have to choose the 'celibate member of the church' route as the choice.
As for the 'bondage' or 'bound' That to me signifies that the covenant between the man and the woman has been nullified. But remember, a marriage covenant is between a man, a woman, and God. Would a covenant between a human and God end, just because someone else walked out of it?
IMO, and i'm judging from Christ's responses to questions on marriage, I would have to choose the 'celibate member of the church' route as the choice.
As for the 'bondage' or 'bound' That to me signifies that the covenant between the man and the woman has been nullified. But remember, a marriage covenant is between a man, a woman, and God. Would a covenant between a human and God end, just because someone else walked out of it?
I
izip
Guest
I've been reading through Romans recently, and Paul stated in that book that the only grounds for being divorced is if your spouse dies. Outside of that, it is considered adultery. (Romans 7:1-6). Only when a spouse dies, is the contract (marriage) "nullified," so-to-speak, in which case, it's not a sin to re-marry.
Ultima Avatar
New Member
Paul definitely not being a JEW and all...
Paul was a Jew, a Jew of Jews, he says, and a Pharisee, a Pharisee of Pharisees, who lived the letter of the law. Coincedence that perhaps he knew Moses' exasperated command to divorce the wife or husband only on grounds of adultery? I think not. Without the Law, there is no sin, it is said in the Bible. If there was no law prohibiting divorce minus adultery, then divorce would be rampant. Once the woman was old, or no longer as cool as before, out the tent she goes and in comes another spritely virgin. What fun!
However, America's weird. Divorces are over fifty percent now. How sad is that? 50+% of all marriages end in divorce...that's crap. That is bogus crap.
If I'm gonna marry I'm gonna make it count. Fights sure. Everyone has fights. Divorces no. No one needs to divorce unless it's a terrible marraige (e.g. wifebeater, dominatrix, hatred, child abuse, domestic violence, blah blah)
Paul was a Jew, a Jew of Jews, he says, and a Pharisee, a Pharisee of Pharisees, who lived the letter of the law. Coincedence that perhaps he knew Moses' exasperated command to divorce the wife or husband only on grounds of adultery? I think not. Without the Law, there is no sin, it is said in the Bible. If there was no law prohibiting divorce minus adultery, then divorce would be rampant. Once the woman was old, or no longer as cool as before, out the tent she goes and in comes another spritely virgin. What fun!
However, America's weird. Divorces are over fifty percent now. How sad is that? 50+% of all marriages end in divorce...that's crap. That is bogus crap.
If I'm gonna marry I'm gonna make it count. Fights sure. Everyone has fights. Divorces no. No one needs to divorce unless it's a terrible marraige (e.g. wifebeater, dominatrix, hatred, child abuse, domestic violence, blah blah)
The-Messenjah
New Member
Ok, so in your opinion, itz ok for divorce if the marriage is crap???
Ultima Avatar
New Member
(e.g. no)
My opinion is if the marriage is in a deadly position, as if violence is a threat in the family, or if the couple are experiencing that oh-so-pervasive problem of AFFAIR.
My opinion is if the marriage is in a deadly position, as if violence is a threat in the family, or if the couple are experiencing that oh-so-pervasive problem of AFFAIR.
Kidan
Moderator
of course if people are behaving according to Biblical standards within the marriage that won't be a problem
We're not supposed to stray outside the marriage bed for sex. Husbands are supposed to be servant leaders of the family, treating his wife the way Christ treats the church, and wives are supposed to submit to their husbands the same way the church submits to Christ.
IF these guidelines were followed then there would be no problems. Fights, misunderstandings, sleepless nites trying to overcome a problem and reach an agreement, yes. Problems (with problems being divorce, adultery, beating, treating a partner as a slave or property) no.
We're not supposed to stray outside the marriage bed for sex. Husbands are supposed to be servant leaders of the family, treating his wife the way Christ treats the church, and wives are supposed to submit to their husbands the same way the church submits to Christ.
IF these guidelines were followed then there would be no problems. Fights, misunderstandings, sleepless nites trying to overcome a problem and reach an agreement, yes. Problems (with problems being divorce, adultery, beating, treating a partner as a slave or property) no.
The-Messenjah
New Member
hmm ok, so what if the husband wil never do anything around the house, is a total tightarse, never spends time with the kids, leaves all the work (housework, managing the affairs of the house, raising/homeschooling the kids, etc) to his wife, and the only time he really tlaks to his kids is when he disciplines them. and he wont get ANY help about it.
isnt this wrong??? this went on for 13 years. 13 YEARS! so when he left it was a releif. according to you, mum should just let him back in??? I THINK NOT.he was a deadwight. itz as if hes coming back.
mum and dad tried counciling, but dad wouldnt listen, wouldnt admit his mistakes. (this sounds all 1-sided, mum wasnt perfect, but at least she admitted it and did something about it, dad wouldnt even admit that he had done anything wrong, let alone do anything about it.)
now do you just think we should have just let dad back???
isnt this wrong??? this went on for 13 years. 13 YEARS! so when he left it was a releif. according to you, mum should just let him back in??? I THINK NOT.he was a deadwight. itz as if hes coming back.
mum and dad tried counciling, but dad wouldnt listen, wouldnt admit his mistakes. (this sounds all 1-sided, mum wasnt perfect, but at least she admitted it and did something about it, dad wouldnt even admit that he had done anything wrong, let alone do anything about it.)
now do you just think we should have just let dad back???
Ultima Avatar
New Member
So....you're about twelve?
Look. I'm not married. I'm only 15. I know nothing but what the Bible speaks to me. It is said in the New Testament that the man is to take care of his family, respect them all, love them all, treat them good, and be disciplinary as well. If not, he's a poor father figure.
Look. I'm not married. I'm only 15. I know nothing but what the Bible speaks to me. It is said in the New Testament that the man is to take care of his family, respect them all, love them all, treat them good, and be disciplinary as well. If not, he's a poor father figure.
The-Messenjah
New Member
Right. i know that. im not an idiot. that wasnt my question. read my above post. do you think we should have let him come back?
btw, i turned 17 3 days ago
sorry, that went on for 15 years, not 13. i was 2 when mum and dad got married. (dad isnt my biological dad, but he is the only dad i have known, so i call him dad)
btw, i turned 17 3 days ago
sorry, that went on for 15 years, not 13. i was 2 when mum and dad got married. (dad isnt my biological dad, but he is the only dad i have known, so i call him dad)
CCGR
Member
if he was truly, truly changed may I'd led him back...but if he made everyone's lives miserable, no way
The-Messenjah
New Member
He didnt. He wont. he is totally blind to all of his mistakes/problems