You're not a true believer unless you can...

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]58And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.
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Notice the HE, it refers to Jesus ONLY.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe:
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I am reminded of this line from Sir Walter Scott, "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive."

Maybe it does come down to belief, which means it all comes down to faith. That just brings up more problems, some of which have already been discussed. Faith must be extremely difficult to achieve, becuse if you had just a mustard seed's worth, you could move mountains. Since I have never seen a mountain move or been presented with evidence that such a thing ever happened, I have to conclude that no one in recorded history has had this much faith.
 
But DV, a side from the mountain they have, We have ll heard of and if you watch any actually Learning channel such as, TLC, Discover, etc, There are always document cases of house wives lifting sides of cars to help their children, martial artist bending alloy baseball bats with a kick from their shin. Yoga practionerss meditating 20 min at a crack underwater. Divers hitting 300ft without decompression. People healed with no explanation. Miracles happen across many religions.

Even God said to the angels at the tower of babble,

Gen 11
5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. 6 The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."


If you ever read the Spiritual Man by watchmen Nee it is an awesome book that connected a lot of dots for me and Showed me exactly who Spirit, Soul and Flesh Work against each other and together.

God can work through us to do miracles

Anyone with any faith can perform feats unheard of.

There are always things we will not be able to explain
 
"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to decieve"

Don't get into the mind set that nothing's going on our miracles don't happen. And don't try to deceive us. It's not working.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]But DV, a side from the mountain they have, We have ll heard of and if you watch any actually Learning channel such as, TLC, Discover, etc, There are always document cases of house wives lifting sides of cars to help their children, martial artist bending alloy baseball bats with a kick from their shin. Yoga practionerss meditating 20 min at a crack underwater. Divers hitting 300ft without decompression. People healed with no explanation. Miracles happen across many religions.
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Sorry, but apart from the divers surviving without decompression, which I can't explain, there are explanations for the others.

House wives lifting cars: It is a documented phenomenon that in times of extreme stress, fear, excitement, or anxiety, that superhuman feats are possible. Exceptionally high amounts of adrenaline momentarily render the person almost completely impervious to pain and exhaustion, a burst of energy if you will. It is this energy that permits a seemingly slight person to lift heavy weights. You may want to look up medical explnations, that is about as much as I can remember from what I read in a medical journal my mum uses at her work (physiotherapist).

To a lesser extent, this can cover the bending of alloy by martial artists. Although I could never do that without further training, my instructor has been to a training seminar with a seventh degree black belt and she can bend a 2" level bar of aluminium using an elbow strike. This is more concerned with the speed at which they strike (Higher speed means greater force exerted), their physical strength and their mental conditioning.

As for the meditation, my only offerance is perhaps a mastery at suspended animation or some such technique. Japanese assassins had the ability to slow their respiratory functions to the point where they could fein death. Such a feat would naturally require some kind of ability to reduce their bodies' requirement to partake of oxygen.

These are only suggestions, of course.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Jim @ Oct. 26 2004,2:34)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]But DV, a side from the mountain they have, We have ll heard of and if you watch any actually Learning channel such as, TLC, Discover, etc, There are always document cases of house wives lifting sides of cars to help their children, martial artist bending alloy baseball bats with a kick from their shin. Yoga practionerss meditating 20 min at a crack underwater. Divers hitting 300ft without decompression. People healed with no explanation. Miracles happen across many religions.
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Sorry, but apart from the divers surviving without decompression, which I can't explain, there are explanations for the others.

House wives lifting cars: It is a documented phenomenon that in times of extreme stress, fear, excitement, or anxiety, that superhuman feats are possible. Exceptionally high amounts of adrenaline momentarily render the person almost completely impervious to pain and exhaustion, a burst of energy if you will. It is this energy that permits a seemingly slight person to lift heavy weights. You may want to look up medical explnations, that is about as much as I can remember from what I read in a medical journal my mum uses at her work (physiotherapist).

To a lesser extent, this can cover the bending of alloy by martial artists. Although I could never do that without further training, my instructor has been to a training seminar with a seventh degree black belt and she can bend a 2" level bar of aluminium using an elbow strike. This is more concerned with the speed at which they strike (Higher speed means greater force exerted), their physical strength and their mental conditioning.

As for the meditation, my only offerance is perhaps a mastery at suspended animation or some such technique. Japanese assassins had the ability to slow their respiratory functions to the point where they could fein death. Such a feat would naturally require some kind of ability to reduce their bodies' requirement to partake of oxygen.

These are only suggestions, of course.
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Why are you Sorry? By the nice CAT Avatar. I am looking at purchasing one.

OK feats of super natual strenght and damge. Sure we can try to expalin it but explaining that a 105 female can with her elbow bend a 2 inch bar with nearly no damage to body , when I can take the another of same type and size and with the same force take a 2 inch bar and dislocate her elbow, does not explain why one and not the other.

Training sure. Its not natural though or anyone could do it. So you can explain it some of it. It should make you sorry. My answer is still You can do anything through faith and training. is that so hard to see?
 
The question was ""Would someone please comment on why these signs don't exist today? Well, unless you're Benny Hinn ""

I just explained they do happen today
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]OK feats of super natual strenght and damge. Sure we can try to expalin it but explaining that a 105 female can with her elbow bend a 2 inch bar with nearly no damage to body , when I can take the another of same type and size and with the same force take a 2 inch bar and dislocate her elbow, does not explain why one and not the other.

Training sure. Its not natural though or anyone could do it. So you can explain it some of it. It should make you sorry. My answer is still You can do anything through faith and training. is that so hard to see?
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You'd be surprised what mental training and the right method can do. Take Bruce Lee. His one-inch punch could send a grown man twice his weight flying. I'm five feet eight weighing in at 10.5 stone. A black belt in my class, 15 years old, about five feet two and roughly seven stone can break a breaking board meant for adults eighteen plus. (By breaking board, I mean a sports one, not an actual board!
biggrin.gif
)

I don't believe some things are naturally beyond people. They put their minds to it and they discipline themselves. As for the bending bars thing, this woman has been doing it for eighteen years. I think that counts for something!
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]But DV, a side from the mountain they have, We have ll heard of and if you watch any actually Learning channel such as, TLC, Discover, etc, There are always document cases of house wives lifting sides of cars to help their children, martial artist bending alloy baseball bats with a kick from their shin. Yoga practionerss meditating 20 min at a crack underwater. Divers hitting 300ft without decompression. People healed with no explanation. Miracles happen across many religions.
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And this is related to God how?

First, there is a lack of documentation for all these events. If there was one that is thoroughly documented, I'd love to see it.

I'm not saying that they didn't happen, but it's POSSIBLE, that it didn't happen the way the story has been told.

Are you suggesting that all of these events are attributable to God working a miracle or that the person involved was a Christian believer and it was their faith that did it?

You said yourself that these "miracles" extend through all religions. How do you explain that then?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dark Virtue @ Oct. 26 2004,4:08)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]But DV, a side from the mountain they have, We have ll heard of and if you watch any actually Learning channel such as, TLC, Discover, etc, There are always document cases of house wives lifting sides of cars to help their children, martial artist bending alloy baseball bats with a kick from their shin. Yoga practionerss meditating 20 min at a crack underwater. Divers hitting 300ft without decompression. People healed with no explanation. Miracles happen across many religions.
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And this is related to God how?

First, there is a lack of documentation for all these events.  If there was one that is thoroughly documented, I'd love to see it.

I'm not saying that they didn't happen, but it's POSSIBLE, that it didn't happen the way the story has been told.

Are you suggesting that all of these events are attributable to God working a miracle or that the person involved was a Christian believer and it was their faith that did it?

You said yourself that these "miracles" extend through all religions.  How do you explain that then?
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You got me DV, sorry I was so far off base. My BAd I guess the lines i was trying to connect weren't there
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (MontrezAnthony @ Oct. 26 2004,8:07)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dark Virtue @ Sep. 09 2004,9:18)]Bonus points if you discuss the theory behind the questioned addition of everything after Mark 16:8.
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Questioned addition?

Ough! Ough! I found this nugget! I think it sheds light on the OP!

Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
I Corinthians 12: 27~31...THEN he goes on to speak on LOVE:)

As for miracles, we must be careful, Revelation tells of the false prophet deceiving us by miracles. Therefore, I think it safe to say that you will see miracles cross religious lines.
 
I dunnno how the Athiests will react... bible doesnt say anything about them. Once again my source is Matthew and Isiah, No. I dont know the exact locations... im sure Peon or soemone else could tell you if it was soo important to find them refernces.

<Edited for content> Genesis1315
 
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