Quote[/b] (Fleck @ Jan. 18 2004,10:54)]You see... thats why we can't establish a good solid arguement... because I believe my God is real and you don't. All you see religon as is something that people use to control other people and in many cases that may be true. But there are things that I can't deny. Thing that I've seen, things that I've heard, thing that I've felt that make me know that God is real. It's not about being afraid of not apologizing to God. Its not about reading a book or going to church. (While those things are good) And its most certainly not about having the most "enjoyable" life by what you mean. I take it to mean that you mean a life without rules and morality (neccesarily). But you said that being a "good honest person" was important to you. Why? I mean if there really is no God than why in the first place do you have morals? You might say that the world tells you that good people with good lives have good morals and because of that, that you value morals. But if you think back to a time before you really knew anything, anything at all about the world, I think you will find that you had morals to begin with. You might call it a "conscience." Over time of course, after sin, your conscience would go away. Its the little voice in your head that tells you not to do whats wrong and to do whats right.