Tribulation
- Thread starter Saeliel
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Her question is whether you believe in pre-, mid-, or post- tribulation. Basically, when do you think the Rapture will happen? Before, during, or after the Tribulation. The time during which the AntiChrist will reign, among other things.
I believe in pre-tribulation. I'm curious as to why you both believe in post. It's not something I have actively studied in a few years, but I should be able to dig up my notes somewhere. But offhand, I don't believe God would allow those who have chosen Him, to go through and suffer through it? I believe people will be saved during the tribulation, but they will have an extremely hard life.
I believe in pre-tribulation. I'm curious as to why you both believe in post. It's not something I have actively studied in a few years, but I should be able to dig up my notes somewhere. But offhand, I don't believe God would allow those who have chosen Him, to go through and suffer through it? I believe people will be saved during the tribulation, but they will have an extremely hard life.
CCGR
Member
I believe in Pre-Trib as well. All throughout the bible God spared his followers of his wrath. (Noah, Lot, Israelites) I don't see how God would punish his followers in the future.
Anyone read Left Behind? Great series, they were pre-trib as well
Anyone read Left Behind? Great series, they were pre-trib as well
I'm going to research it some more on my own once again before I make a determination. I'm still trying to figure out exactly where "rapture" is found in the Bible. Maybe someone can point me in a specific direction? I know I've read up on all this before, but I haven't tought of it for a long time.
Ultimately, my opinion became that what is going to happen is going to happen, and what you beleive beforehand is irrelevant once you're stuck in the middle. So you may as well just take one day at a time and take it as it comes. If we get taken up pre-trib, awesome, the sooner I get to see God, the better. If it's post, that's good too, I get to prove my faith before death, maybe...or just die. Either way's good with me in that case too. But my point is, why even bother debating it? If there's no definite answer found in the Bible, why waste the time trying to figure it out? I honestly think that most people will be so caught up in the challenge of the arguement that they will be taken so completely off guard, given either case, that it'll be laughable. Oh well...if there's a definite Biblical answer, there shoud be no reason to debate, should there?
Ultimately, my opinion became that what is going to happen is going to happen, and what you beleive beforehand is irrelevant once you're stuck in the middle. So you may as well just take one day at a time and take it as it comes. If we get taken up pre-trib, awesome, the sooner I get to see God, the better. If it's post, that's good too, I get to prove my faith before death, maybe...or just die. Either way's good with me in that case too. But my point is, why even bother debating it? If there's no definite answer found in the Bible, why waste the time trying to figure it out? I honestly think that most people will be so caught up in the challenge of the arguement that they will be taken so completely off guard, given either case, that it'll be laughable. Oh well...if there's a definite Biblical answer, there shoud be no reason to debate, should there?
CCGR
Member
"I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And He said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, there will the eagles be gathered together" (Luke 17:34–37).
1 Corinthians 15:51-53
51. Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Pre Trib supporting scripture
1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Seven reasons for pre-tribulation
http://www.rapturesolution.com/beechick/Intro/7reasons.htm
1 Corinthians 15:51-53
51. Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Pre Trib supporting scripture
1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Seven reasons for pre-tribulation
http://www.rapturesolution.com/beechick/Intro/7reasons.htm
K
Kohael <PC>
Guest
:would rather stay and help those suffering under the darkness, but that's just me:
CCGR
Member
There will be people who are not raptured. People who think they have a relationship with Christ will find out the hard way that they never let him into their heart. Those are the oens that will dedicate themselves to Christ knowing he was right all along! They will try and reach out to as many as they can.
What I am curious about is the explantion they'll use for the people gone missing. Alien abduction?
What I am curious about is the explantion they'll use for the people gone missing. Alien abduction?
Post-trib. I see no reason why God would have to return twice, once to take christians, second time to judge the world. Besides, if we're gone, who's gonna help all the people that will be under the Antichrist's spell? I think the pre-trib idea is influenced by the mushy american christian feeling that God will never let us suffer, and everything's hanky-dory after you become a christian.
Doesn't it say somewhere that christians will suffer under the Antichrist's rule? No time to check right now.
Doesn't it say somewhere that christians will suffer under the Antichrist's rule? No time to check right now.
CCGR
Member
blurb from this site http://www.inplainsite.org/html/pre_tribulation.html
"Why not post-tribulational?
1. The conquered saints: In 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Paul writes "For God hath not appointed us to wrath ...." But at the midpoint of the tribulation, Revelation 12:12 says "... Woe to the inhabitors of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." Revelation 13:7 says of the Antichrist, "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints and to overcome them ...." His authority lasts for 42 months (Revelation 13:5). Also, Daniel 7:25 says the Antichrist "... shall wear out (oppress) the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time (3 and 1/2 years)." "... he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people." (Daniel 8:24). "... when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished." (Daniel 12:7). The Antichrist can only "destroy ... the holy people" if the tribulation saints are not members of the true Christian Church of this present dispensation. The saints in the tribulation are people who become believers after the rapture of the Church.
2. Sheep and Goats: We know from Matthew 25 that Jesus Christ will divide the sheep on His right hand and the goats on His left after he returns. Matthew 25:31-34 says, "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world ...." Then in Matthew 25:41, "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels ...." Now if all the believers were raptured just before Jesus Christ returned, there would be no sheep left on earth to divide, only goats.
3. Who would populate the millennial kingdom? We know that mortal believers will live in the kingdom. But if all the believers would have been raptured, thus immortal, and all the unbelievers would have been killed. There would be no more mortal believers left to populate the kingdom.
4. Resurrection of tribulation saints: After Jesus Christ's return in Revelation 19:11-16, Revelation 20:4 tells us about the resurrection of martyred tribulation saints who did not receive the mark of the beast, "... they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." If the rapture had occurred just before Christ's return, they would have already been resurrected, and could not be resurrected again."
-------------------------------my thoughts
Either case I know I am saved and spared from ultimate torture. I seriously think people will be quited sobered up when they find a mass amount of people missing. Many churches empty, children & babies gone..perhaps they were on to something? Yes people will get converted after the rapture. But they will still have a rough life. God forgives but doesn't relieve us of the consquences of our actions.
"Why not post-tribulational?
1. The conquered saints: In 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Paul writes "For God hath not appointed us to wrath ...." But at the midpoint of the tribulation, Revelation 12:12 says "... Woe to the inhabitors of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." Revelation 13:7 says of the Antichrist, "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints and to overcome them ...." His authority lasts for 42 months (Revelation 13:5). Also, Daniel 7:25 says the Antichrist "... shall wear out (oppress) the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time (3 and 1/2 years)." "... he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people." (Daniel 8:24). "... when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished." (Daniel 12:7). The Antichrist can only "destroy ... the holy people" if the tribulation saints are not members of the true Christian Church of this present dispensation. The saints in the tribulation are people who become believers after the rapture of the Church.
2. Sheep and Goats: We know from Matthew 25 that Jesus Christ will divide the sheep on His right hand and the goats on His left after he returns. Matthew 25:31-34 says, "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world ...." Then in Matthew 25:41, "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels ...." Now if all the believers were raptured just before Jesus Christ returned, there would be no sheep left on earth to divide, only goats.
3. Who would populate the millennial kingdom? We know that mortal believers will live in the kingdom. But if all the believers would have been raptured, thus immortal, and all the unbelievers would have been killed. There would be no more mortal believers left to populate the kingdom.
4. Resurrection of tribulation saints: After Jesus Christ's return in Revelation 19:11-16, Revelation 20:4 tells us about the resurrection of martyred tribulation saints who did not receive the mark of the beast, "... they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." If the rapture had occurred just before Christ's return, they would have already been resurrected, and could not be resurrected again."
-------------------------------my thoughts
Either case I know I am saved and spared from ultimate torture. I seriously think people will be quited sobered up when they find a mass amount of people missing. Many churches empty, children & babies gone..perhaps they were on to something? Yes people will get converted after the rapture. But they will still have a rough life. God forgives but doesn't relieve us of the consquences of our actions.
The common verse that causes people to believe in post-trib is in Revelations where John sees the multitude. Up until this point, there was no mention of the church or the believers at all. Then he sees the multitude and asks who they are and is told that they are the believers coming out of the Great tribulation.
Then at this point, the church is mentioned. This is why many people believe in post trib.
Maxx, good point, I had never thought of it that way...
Then at this point, the church is mentioned. This is why many people believe in post trib.
Maxx, good point, I had never thought of it that way...
We'll have to see what happens, I guess. If people get raptured pre-trib, and I'm one of them, awesome! Heaven a lot sooner would be great. If that's the case, and I'm not, or it turns out to be post-trib...I intend on making myself a major pain to Mr. Antichrist before I get killed. Wasn't there something about the beast coming out of the water, and having one of his seven heads mortally wounded? Don't remember the specifics on it...but is there any chance I'd get to take that shot at it 
?
?"If that's the case, and I'm not, or it turns out to be post-trib...I intend on making myself a major pain to Mr. Antichrist before I get killed. Wasn't there something about the beast coming out of the water, and having one of his seven heads mortally wounded? Don't remember the specifics on it...but is there any chance I'd get to take that shot at it ?"
When you're ready to sabatoge Nicolae's network, give me a call.
I actually wanted to make a game based on that, I know there was a series of movies in the 80's... The Prodigal Planet, or something like that.
?"When you're ready to sabatoge Nicolae's network, give me a call.
I actually wanted to make a game based on that, I know there was a series of movies in the 80's... The Prodigal Planet, or something like that.
*Calls up MaxX "Let's do it...we need guns...lots of guns." ;-)
Yeah, I'll help with a game like that, just tell me what you need. I can do VB programming, it would just take a little more learning on my part if we're going to do a ful-blown graphical game instead of a play-by-numbers RPG...which an RPG would be cool too. Many different endings that way!
Yeah, I'll help with a game like that, just tell me what you need. I can do VB programming, it would just take a little more learning on my part if we're going to do a ful-blown graphical game instead of a play-by-numbers RPG...which an RPG would be cool too
. Many different endings that way!