Serious MC Set back

[Avesther]

Due to Goblit leaving the guild, MC runs have hit a major snafu. Because about half the run was going to be made up of people outside of the guild, who also nearly all happened to be friends of Goblit, I forsee a serious abundance of bodies not showing up.

And right now, I'm having a very hard time finding the will and fortitude to carry on this endevour right now. Its very hard to move forward and do this kind of work for people who show that the persuit of loot is more important then patience and respect.

 

[shadetaker]

Man, what has gone on around here in my absence?

I must say that I'm fairly shocked that Goblit left the guild. But given the experience that I've had with her I feel confident in saying that she must've had some very good reasons for doing so.

This is an issue that has been on my mind a lot recently, namely that some people seem to think of the guild as a means to get loot and better themselves rather then a group endeavor that's worth showing some patience and dedication. Especially as a Christian guild, shouldn't we practice what we preach and "consider others better then ourselves"? What about "clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances against one another."?

There are a few things I want to say:

First, selfishness will be the death of this guild. I'm not going to point fingers since don't know much about this situation, but from the sound of things, some folks have some serious apologizing and attitude adjusting to do. As I see it, the only other option, a last resort, is to do some major housecleaning so to speak, though I seriously don't want to see it come to that.

Second, we are known as a Christian guild and what kind of witness will it be to the server if they see us fall apart due to the selfishness of our members?

Lastly, WoW may be a game that you buy for your own enjoyment, but when you're a part of a guild, your actions affect more than just yourself. For example, I probably worry too much about this guild, but seeing the so-called "drama" happening here literally makes me sick and causes me to lose sleep. So please, whoever's causing it, stop and think about the damage that you're causing to the guild and your fellow members.

Everything could be so much better and more enjoyable if we would all just behave as unselfishly as Christians should.

P.S. to Goblit: I sincerly hope that things will improve and you'll rejoin us eventually, but if not, I must say that you'll be sorely missed. Very sorely missed. Thanks for taking the time and effort to make this game a far better experience for your guildies.

 

[Amaziah]

I don't know the whole story, and I agree that patience and respect is more important than the pursuit of loot. But just because some people disrespect and are selfish, it does not mean the entire guild is. Any guild that someone joins will have selfish people, and I think a non-Christian guild would have more selfish people, because the only thing that makes me not completly selfish is God.

I know the people that offended have openly appologized; and I think they deserve the same forgiveness, patience, and respect.

 

[Lilminihaha]

Unfortunately, this issue is still needing to be resolved...Personally I HATE DRAMA I left Holy Roman Knights because of it, and joined Redeemed thinking that perhaps maybe, just maybe there would be some freedom to play WoW without the drama, but I have personally found myself frustrated and even angry at the lack of guild runs we do...as I said in guild chat the other day...we are a guild of many factions.

We as a whole profess to be Christian. And we all have a similar goal in mind...Being a Witness to the Lost who play the game (or at least this is my view of the guild mission), However our ways of getting there is vastly different. Folks play this game to get gear/money/prestige/honor, what have you

As far as Goblit is concerned...I miss her greatly. I looked up to her quite a bit...kinda like the Guild Momma. She put alot of time into making stuff happen in Redeemed...back when FJ was guild leader to now...thru the various leadership hand changes Goblit has been there. Whenever anyone needed anything, Goblit was there for ya.

I personally have been debating leaving the guild due to this...too much drama...drama is acceptable when kept in check but it's not in check anymore and clicks have began to form in numbers and yes I can say that...cause even in vent you can seeit and hear it. Backstabbing members, talking bad about one another...yes I see it yes i hear it...and I'm wrong for not saying anything to those doing it, but I'm saying it now. I don't need to be in a Christian guild that isn't upholding even the most basic of Christian standards. It's nice to be in a Christian guild to identify myself with fellow members of the Body of Christ, but at the same time, Christ will still reside in me whether I am in Redeemed or not.

With the possibility of us not running MC anymore, I think it may be time for me to move on. I have a 60 and have lots of quests still do, but at the same time I have been patient but I'm ready to do some high end stuff...it was nice to do ZG, but recently it not been working out...and this past weekend for whatever reason it straight fell apart and most folks went with HK for AQ40 (Yes I was there...but only asking 5 times if we were doing something else...when I got no response I went with the rest of the guild)

I am no means selfish, I know I ahve helped many of you with various runs and even dropped what i wanted to do to help...so this isn't a 'oh lilminihaha is being selfish' this is a very burnt out "MeMe" who finds it hard to log in to WoW only to do the same thing over and over and over again and making no headway.

I don't know where I'll go when i decide to leave, but I will be looking who knows I may start my own guild since my brothers and dad may start playing wow soon.

Well I've ranted enough just wanted to state my opinion. I love you all, and pray for each of you...I just hope that the drama passes so we can all be unified again...but as of right now I wanna get outta Dodge before I get caught up in something that may ruin my WoW experience.

Lata
"MeMe"

 

[lanki]

The biggest difference I've had with Redeemed vs. other guilds that I used to be a part off was when I needed some place to relax and spend some alone time I could log onto my Redeemed toons. However lately everytime I log on to me /g in Redeemed seems like a LFG channel... I keep hearing people lfg for an instance say it atleast 6-7 times, I can understand twice but 6-7 time is annoying especially when there's a lfg channel. I have kept the habit of asking in guild only once when ever I was lfg and also specified the classes in some cases.

There have been some requests of 60's going to lower lvl instances, most of the times I will straight up say no if someone has requested it. The instances are designed so a group of people within the lvl range of the meeting stone can clear. Requesting help from a high level person doesn't teach you the role of your class in instances, hence many many wipes in brs/scholo/strath/dm later on. I am actually happy that blizzard has lowered the cap of the high-end instances to 5-10 to avoid the zerg for gear and focused more on people learning their classes.

I have never seen Redeemed as an end-game guild but as a quiet place I can get away to on a busy day. Also if people can't commit to clearing a 20 man instance, there is no point moving to a 40 man. Everyone wants epics some point or another, but if they aren't willing to spend time learning then they can wait when there's need for them to come into the instance. ZG can be cleared by Redeemed easily, perhaps focus on clearing the 20 man instance as a guild on a consistent basis before considering the 40man.

 

[CGamer]

My two cents on the issue is this. This guild whether Christian or non-Christian is made up of a large of different individuals. We are going to have issues with people not getting along just as in real life. The question is though do you allow one person or 5 people ruin your entire experience. Goblit leaving has bothered me as much as anyone because I count her as a friend and I've expressed that sentiment to others and to her. However, I'll state it here, decisions made rashly or without having time to really think out an issue can cause more problems then good. Maybe I am a bit tolerant of some things that have happened in this guild since I was appointed guild leader, the issues that have come up with other people. However as Christians we are to be tolerant of others faults, simply because we are just as easily suceptible to doing the exact same thing, NONE OF US ARE IMMUNE TO SIN, We are to forgive others that may have hurt us intentionally or unintentionally, not because we want to but because God has commanded us.

1 John 4:20 - 21 20If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 21And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

We are to love our fellow brother whether right or wrong, we still must love and forgive them. We say we are a Christian guild and we represent Christ, well it's time we start acting like it rather then just saying it.

 

[.se3ker.]

Drama is everywhere...no guild is free of it and never will be. Unless u're the only one in it. I was in Anadi's two man guild once, and he's a drama queen so there ya go. Anyways the point being, as the family grows there will be differences...we just have to find ways to work together. I don't know what went on so I'm not going to comment on Goblit's situation. I do know that Goblit does put in lot of effort towards the guild.

 

[Lilminihaha]

This guild whether Christian or non-Christian is made up of a large of different individuals. We are going to have issues with people not getting along just as in real life.

I agree 100% with this statement, but you need to keep that out of the game...if you don't like that person keep it to yourself...having a bash sesssion or click that oust that persons or negatively affects that person knowingly or unknowingly is wrong. Which is where I have a problem. NO ONE SHOULD TALK ILL OF ANOTHER GUILDEE REGARDLESS WHAT HE OR SHE HAS DONE

The question is though do you allow one person or 5 people ruin your entire experience.

You pay a game to play...you join a guild to experience Espri'd'Corp...but when in fighting kicks up you feel isolated from your guild...which dampers your game....why pay to play the game if you get stressed out? Unfortunately the game isn't free of real life intervention, but I think if folks would leave their issues at the login screen life would be alot better.

Goblit leaving has bothered me as much as anyone because I count her as a friend and I've expressed that sentiment to others and to her. However, I'll state it here, decisions made rashly or without having time to really think out an issue can cause more problems then good. Maybe I am a bit tolerant of some things that have happened in this guild since I was appointed guild leader, the issues that have come up with other people.

Goblit did alot for this guild..and her leaving effected all of us...but it only magnifies the other issues in guild. Sadly enough Goblit leaving is only one of the issues that plagues the guild...

How with the possibility of not doing MC as a solo guild run it's rather frustrating...several folks in guild hate how HK handles things...me personally I don't care...I just want to clear my quest log and do things with the guild...but even then sometimes it difficult.

However as Christians we are to be tolerant of others faults, simply because we are just as easily suceptible to doing the exact same thing, NONE OF US ARE IMMUNE TO SIN, We are to forgive others that may have hurt us intentionally or unintentionally, not because we want to but because God has commanded us.

This portion is very true but that still doesn't mean that we should bombard the guild with real life issues...now asking for prayer...confiding in a fellow guildee to seek the Lord's Will in a situation,etc is acceptable. However, bringing dischord to the table, personal hatred toward someone/something, and stuff like that while we should be tolerant to a certain point...there is a time when we not just as Christians, but as human beings need to slam the hammer down on folk's head because patience toward someone who doesn't know is one thing, but I wholeheartedly believe that God will not rebuke me if I put someone in there place as long as I do it in the spirit of love and friendship...now yelling and screaming and doing so when angry is wrong, but enough is enough....

We are to love our fellow brother whether right or wrong, we still must love and forgive them. We say we are a Christian guild and we represent Christ, well it's time we start acting like it rather then just saying it.

Well stated, but there are times we we need to do things that aren't popular...and if things don't get resolved in a timely manner, I or anyone else have the right to leave without having to be labeled as someone who isn't patient or someone who isn't forgiving. I pay to play a game for fun and recreation, if I don't wish to deal with drama or if I decide to leave to do something else/run hi lvl instances, that's my perogative. Not to be mean, but I joined WoW to enjoy the game play and the story...I happened upon Redeemed and joined because it added another aspect to the game...but if that aspect begins to sour...or again if anyone else feels the same way they should have ever right to leave...

As I said before I came to Redeemed as a Christian, and I'll leave Redeemed a Christian...Being a member of the guild doesn't effect that status one way or another.

 

[Reco Suave]

Guys I think Goblit leaving for whatever reason really stinks. However you must realize that this is a game! People play to have a good time. To some people getting gear and upgrades is part of the fun of the game for them. Without that it makes the game no fun to them. Now Im not saying why Goblit left cuz actually I have no idea, but quoting scriptures and such is just plain crazy. It is just a game. What is important is just how we treat one another whether in this guild or not. Everyone has their personal goals and we must respect whatever it is that makes this game fun to them.

As far as the guild goes from what I have seen is that this is a casual gamer guild. To anyone like Goblit for instance that plays alot (i.e 25 plus hours a week) is probably not going to last forever in this guild. The only way they will is if there are alot of other people that raid and play the same amount of time they do. Those people without the guild making good effort to pursue new adventures for them will probably end up leaving. Sorry but I have been playing MMORPG's for over 6 years and thats just how it works. Christian guild or not. What the guild needs to define is what our purpose and mission is for our members. If its PHAT loots then great. If its reaching the lost in PUGS great. Or if its just being a good example to others and a safe haven to its members to have some good clean fun great. I think its important that we make it clear and defined and that nobody tries to make it something it is not or will ever be. This guild may raid MC but that takes serious amouts of efforts and players to make that happen. It also takes a core group of hardcore players that are on at least 30 or so hours a week. I see probably 80 to 90 % of our members that can not make that kind of time commitment. That is not bad its just the facts. So for those that want to raid MC they have to make a decision to either be patient or find a guild that can give them what they want out of the game. Anyways sorry for such a long post just thought I would share what a new member has seen since being in the guild. Peace out.

 

[Lilminihaha]

Rico I agree 100% with your post...thanks for your post and insight!

 

[Azzie]

I agree too; well said, Reco

 

[lanki]

Drama is everywhere...no guild is free of it and never will be. Unless u're the only one in it. I was in Anadi's two man guild once, and he's a drama queen so there ya go. Anyways the point being, as the family grows there will be differences...we just have to find ways to work together. I don't know what went on so I'm not going to comment on Goblit's situation. I do know that Goblit does put in lot of effort towards the guild.

Silence fool, you were kicked out because Anadi is teh pwn was for people that could kill 500 horde a day, and you weren't meeting that quota. Eventually I was forced to leave the guild too , had such high expectations.

...several folks in guild hate how HK handles things...

Heh, well thats tough luck really, cause I still remember wiping and remember spending 12+ hours per week in MC learning encounters. I also remember the times where MC would be on both Wednesdays and Sundays. If you don't like the days that HK runs MC on, then nothing one can do about it but go about looking for another guild that runs on days/times which are more convienient. Don't like their dkp system, well again same solution look for another guild to run with that satisfies you. Just cause Redeemed has an alliance with HK doesn't mean you have to run with HK, there are other guilds on the server that run MC/BWL that are always looking for people.

 

[Odale]

I have learned to like how HK deals with things. At first i admit, i didnt like them too much they grew on me.... like an infectious fungus.

 

[shadetaker]

quoting scriptures and such is just plain crazy. It is just a game.

Clearly this was directed at me since I'm the only one who's done that so here are a few points.

First I fail to see how relating scripture to our behavior in game is crazy. It may be a game, but game or not, our faith has a lot to say about how we behave, and if we are indeed a christian group, our actions should be guided by the standards which God has given us in the Bible. How is that crazy?

Secondly, you may indeed be paying to play the game, but if you want to concern yourself entirely with your own enjoyment and not worry about others', than I believe that you should remain unguilded. Being a part of a guild means being willing to make a few sacrifices if it's necessary to maintain the stability of the guild. Analogy: like an MMO you pay money to go into a movie theater and enjoy yourself. However, just cus you payed money and you're there for enjoyment doesn't mean that you don't have to follow some guidelines. For example just because kicking the occupied seat in front of you increases your enjoyment doesn't mean that you get to do it. In the same way, just because you're out to enjoy yourself in WoW doesn't meant that you can to so at the expense of your guildies.

Everyone has their personal goals and we must respect whatever it is that makes this game fun to them.

Not if it causes strife for the guild we don't. The officers have a responsibility to consider the needs of the entire guild, and if one person's version of fun is causing strife for everyone else, the problem needs to be resolved one way or the other. As you said yourself, to be successful, the desires of the guild must me as closely aligned as possible. To that end, those who step out of line must be dealt with either by altering their behavior, or by removing them. The entire guild cannot cowtow to a handful of loot hungry members, it is the loot hungerers who need to either change or leave.

As far as the guild goes from what I have seen is that this is a casual gamer guild.

While it is true that many of our players (including myself) don't spend hours logged on every day, I think it's fair to say that the majority of our guild would like to raid without having to leave. At this point it's more a matter of numbers rather then a lack of desire. After all, look at how many of our 60s were in MC on friday.

It also takes a core group of hardcore players that are on at least 30 or so hours a week.

Where does it say that you have to spend +20 hours weekly playing when you're not raiding? Sure you might need to farm up some gold for repairs and mats for pots, but that hardly requires you to spend 4 hours a day.

Well that's all, nothing personal or anything, just wanted to present an alternative view.

 

[Elihu]

After much prayer. deliberation, and heart-searching...I feel the need to speak up here and hope that some of this catches your hearts and minds.

I feel like Goblit leaving the guild has taken the wind out of alot of our sails as we have come to depend on and expect her to be there for us as a guild. I don't know the reasons behind her leaving and I don't think that it is important for us as a guild to continue to discuss, throw blame, or hound anyone about it. I think we have elected a leader to handle situations that arise for us and we should support him in any way to help resolve the issue. We love you Goblit and are praying for you!!!

That being said lets now talk about the guild. We have grown to a massive size now and still continue to gain momentum as we move into bigger and better things. As with any group, with growth comes more responsibility and more problems. This is what truly determines our character, individually and as a guild. The more we strive to work together, help one another, and put our brothers and sisters in Christ first, the better we shall become.....TOGETHER! The concept of this being just a game scares me....I truly believe that everything you do in your life should be for the glory of God. (1 Corinthians 10:31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.) This game is fun as a game, but how much better is it when you can minister to others?? Pray for one another when a need is given?? Hold Bible studies weekly?? Scripture SO belongs here, and in guild chat and wherever God would have you put it to reach others. I for one as a member of Redeemed will not stand by and allow anyone in this guild to say this is JUST A GAME. God has us together as a reason, to accomplish whatever His will is for us to be here....and I won't stand idly to the side and allow the opportunity to see something GREAT happen pass us by. There are people in this guild that I do believe need to be reminded that God comes first with us, it is what sets us apart from any other guild out there.....without him we are just another guild, and thats not what I want to be a part of. Let's re-evaluate why we're here people and come together in one accord.
(1 Corinthians 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.)

On to the MC issue.....while having Goblit away does create a snafu in our guild MC runs I believe with Nakir at the helm to help motivate and lead us we will be successful in our attempts. (not to say I don't want Goblit back or that she doesn't make a difference! we love you Goblit!) We must not lose sight or faith in what we have begun or it is sure to fail us. So band together and learn what you can during our trash run MC runs so that you may be tempered and ready for the real thing when it comes. And remember, good things take time....we won't do this overnight. Trust that God will lead us successfully.

To end this LONG notation. I in no way mean to be hurtful in my post towards anyone or to make this into some kind of debate. I merely feel like God is having me type this out to help us get back on track and to touch some hearts. I believe in my fellow guildmates and will continue to do God's work as He calls. I love you all and will have you in my prayers.

 

[Lilminihaha]

This toon may no longer be apart of the guild...but I thought I'd pass along some news to you all. After speaking with Goblit last night, she was still a little hurt how things happened on Saturday, but has assured me that she will return to Redeemed.

That being said you don't have to worry about that now.

To Lanki,

I have no problem with Hk...they did a great job and still do. As Odale said it grew on him...it did the same to me...at first I thought they were unfair...

Any another thing...becareful who you call fool...and mind your manners...
Nuff said.

To Jon (FJ) - Brother I'm glad you spoke up.

To the rest of you.

I know you guys will do great things...who knows maybe I'll come back too...maybe I won't...but know that should you ever need me for anything I'll be more than happy to help you out. (I did leave my other toons in the guild...so I'm not 100% gone)

Till then,

Laterz

 

[lanki]

Any another thing...becareful who you call fool...and mind your manners...
Nuff said.

Hehe don't worry, for those that don't know this .Seeker.N00b is my IRL brother. We used to this in /g but lately haven't cause he and I usually busy most of the time we're on to play. I don't call people fools unless they have the Anadi's seal of fool approval.

 

[ewoksrule]

Math 5:22- But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

Yeah, we should really be careful of calling any guildie a fool, noob, nub, loser.

I totally understand that it was in jest to a friend, but nonetheless, others are always watching. Forum posts/Guild chats can be easily misunderstood. Christ wants us to keep a serious reign on our tongue. There are lots of other creative ways we can have fun without the name calling.

 

[Avesther]

Well, this is just a set back, not a permanent one. Even if Goblit decided to walk away and never return, we would find a way. This Firday will still go forward as planned unless 20 people don't sign\show up.

 

[Samuraij]

Pray Hard & Play Hard

Goblit, Avester & Guild,

The leaving of Goblit troubled me greatly. As you know I have been with this Guild since we were on Illidan under the Banner of "Choose Joy", think I was lvl 35 when we moved. I am now a 60, I have also run with other guilds such Holicron Knights, A Team, ONE, etc.....regardless I still prefer to come home to Redeemed and have never left.

With that being said, here goes......

First I would like to thank Goblit especially, my heart is very heavy due to her departure, and all the others in the guild that have worked hard to help me get my toons and others in the guild where they are every day. The time and effort contributed to the guild by some members is mindboggling. I used to be only the bank and that was time consuming... I had no idea. I know of guild members that farm hours rather than go on instances or complete quests they need themselves for the good of our guild. Which leads me to what I think we need, but again this is my opinion:

If this guild is going to get the endgame content they want... EACH of us must work at it to share the load. We must be COMMITTED, ORGANIZED, RESPECTFUL, and SACRIFICING...if thats not for you then thats fine dont sign up to go.

I don't expect all of this to happen overnight, but rather over time as we pray and play over time and form a raid team equalled by none that can rock all instances.

PARTICIPATION is Key...if you cant attend some raids because of real life we all accept that...maybe we can move it if its a bad day for the majority... Right now we have a trash run this Friday and we got less than 10 signed up? Ragnoros and Onexia gonna be hard with less than 10...but you get my point.

LOTS of work needs to be done for instances....mats to be farmed....potions... to be made....and shouldnt just be 5 people of a 40 man raid.

It is my hopes we create mats lists for each instance like health pots, mana pots, firepots...etc... so each can contribute to the bank so we have an abundant supply.

So, if you doing a Guild scheduled raid and you signed up to go:

You dont leave for a BG
You dont leave for another Guilds raid
You show up as scheduled on time
You should be repaired and prepared
Send notice as soon as you can that you cant go as Real Life oftens gets in the way and everyone understands that or pst someone if it really short like my wife having a baby, i been on one like that.
I just want things smoother for all which cuts down on frustration and disappointment.

For example, Onexia is about an 1hr instance, but if you take almost 2 hours for all to show, go back for repairs, powders, bulllets, etc then you just made it 3hours.

I want the Fellowship to come back to this guild and I do not want the guild to continue to lose members. I will do all I can to pratice what I preach.

Most of you know my toons of Samuraij and Powderpuff now, and I hope you have good things to say about them...I respect each of you and look forward to questing with you, I feel Redeemed is an extended family for me and reinforcement of my faith....where I find fellowship with Christian brothers and sisters of all ages, genders, and backgrounds....

Finally, things I dont support in the game: Guild Hopping, Ninja looting, Powerleveling, Begging, making a profit on fellow guildy