Party @ the Sunwell?

Actually I came to this thread to offer some ideas to help get people excited about raiding and I felt I was attacked by Mordos, Ug and even Nevi to a lesser extent. That is when I let my true feelings come out about Ug. To address nevi's point

Where - he quite clearly made a mistake which he immediately corrected himself on - the mistake being that the wrong person was called out to get back on target, not his tone. If you're complaining that he was loud and didn't gently tell someone to get back on target - sorry, but that's just not going to happen in an instantaneous and confusing situation. If you (and in this case, it's really a generic 'you') can't handle that degree of correction without flipping out, then you probably should re-consider your presence in a likely chaotic scenario of a 25 man raid. Also, if you'll recall, you were given several (3...4?) opportunities to tank Lurker that evening - seemingly largely at the root of your previous complaint, so in my eyes - Ug did perfectly fine and again, catered to you.
Click to expand...

He did not correct himself on it, he said WHERE GET ON ____ and when I realized what he was talking about I said Thats not even my target and he never said ANYTHING to me about him making a mistake, he huffed off and the next fight told Goodwone to pick up that mark. That whole night he talked down to me and treated me like I couldnt tank, in fact we wiped on Lurker how many times that night before he brought Mordos in to save us and never once let me try to MT him(even though others in the raid were suggesting it), and then mordos DC's and the next fight mordos dies and I tank Lurker the last half of the fight but he makes it sound like Mordos saved us that night. You said I was given 4 opportunities to tank him that evening but you are wrong. I did MT Lurker the last half of the fight we killed him that night but I got no credit for it, it was Mordos who came in and saved us.

Yes I replaced a DPSer and brought in Mordos to Tank Lurker. We died the first pull because he DC'ed and then the second time we killed lurker.
Click to expand...

Mordos died halfway through the fight but it was all him, let us all praise Mordos' awesome ability to defeat bosses while he dies.


The ONLY reason I was given a chance to MT Lurker the next week was because I complained to Nevi and Tree about that and Mordos was the one in Redtanks telling me to tank it, I believe Ug started out the night telling healers Mordos was gonna be MT and Mordos told them I was going to be so dont tell me how Ug catered to me that night.
 
Where,

I put out a olive branch in a PM and said lets resolve this outside of the forums. I gave you every way to contact me via phone and also give you the option to set a time in Vent so that we can talk if you did not want to have a phone conversation. You chose the road more traveled by and kept it in the forums. That said I am not going to argue points of what happened in the past that you have allowed to jade your outlook on me and how I run raids continue to fuel your anger by continuing to post and debate your comments. At thing time this discussion is not constructive or useful to the guild.

Have a nice day!
Ug
 
Perhaps people didn't read... Listen... God has something to say:

Proverbs 21:23:
23He who guards his mouth and his tongue, Guards his soul from troubles.
Matthew 5:9
9"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
Matthew 18:21-22
21Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
22Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
Romans 12:18
18If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.
Romans 14:19
19So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another.
Titus 3:1-2
1Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed,
2to malign no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing every consideration for all men.
 
We don't have anything to resolve, I hold no ill will towards you and if thats the way you wanna lead raids then I will just not go, no biggy.
 
Just my opinion but I think its time to put this thread to rest and let the two people in the center of it all resolve it on their own..or with a moderator...just not on here. I find this whole thread upsetting . People can interpret type too many different ways for it to be a very constructive way of communicating.

Love you both....
 
OK I thought that the forum had calmed down lastnight, HEH so now i am gonna add my two cents in. I feel that JD is not attacking anyone, but trying to get out what is holding him back. Granted it should of been private but I think he aired alot of laundry that alot of us had felt over the months of raids. JD is the kind of person that will type how he feels and hopefully can get it worked out, but this issue has been building and building. And hearing me complain about some of the things do not help his stress level either, Jd loves to raid and do things in game.. And most of you know JD and how he is. But this thread has just been taken over the edge saying "oh not pointing fingers" but know that they really are. I can only imagine how hard raid leading is heh i can remember MC and the stress Avesther went threw. BUt this is a game and i know we all want to suceed in this raiding business but we need to look at it as fun not a job heh I have enough stress in RL dont need it in game. I love to raid but I dont want to stress about I am not good enough or wow someone is mad cause they died or even smaller stuff i want to have fun raiding I know that is take hard work and concentration but at the same time i want to know hey if we wipe we wipe and we just rez and come back and know one is gonna sound mad or upset at us YES it is frusterating i get frusterated when we wipe and wipe but i have to tell my self oh well atleast we are all working to gether to get threw it...... monday was too much and it aggrod alot of us but its over. I think yes we need to get to know UG more, we got to know mordos better actually threw a simular situation. JD just wants to not feel that everytime he raids there is gonna be drama over attitudes. and if you feel attacked by him then i am sorry but he just speaks how he feels and the reason it was put on the forums like this was cause of all the other people he talked to was feeling the same way and he is the only one that had enough nerve to say something.
 
Laraptor said:
OK I thought that the forum had calmed down lastnight, HEH so now i am gonna add my two cents in. I feel that JD is not attacking anyone, but trying to get out what is holding him back. Granted it should of been private but I think he aired alot of laundry that alot of us had felt over the months of raids. JD is the kind of person that will type how he feels and hopefully can get it worked out, but this issue has been building and building. And hearing me complain about some of the things do not help his stress level either, Jd loves to raid and do things in game.. And most of you know JD and how he is. But this thread has just been taken over the edge saying "oh not pointing fingers" but know that they really are. I can only imagine how hard raid leading is heh i can remember MC and the stress Avesther went threw. BUt this is a game and i know we all want to suceed in this raiding business but we need to look at it as fun not a job heh I have enough stress in RL dont need it in game. I love to raid but I dont want to stress about I am not good enough or wow someone is mad cause they died or even smaller stuff i want to have fun raiding I know that is take hard work and concentration but at the same time i want to know hey if we wipe we wipe and we just rez and come back and know one is gonna sound mad or upset at us YES it is frusterating i get frusterated when we wipe and wipe but i have to tell my self oh well atleast we are all working to gether to get threw it...... monday was too much and it aggrod alot of us but its over. I think yes we need to get to know UG more, we got to know mordos better actually threw a simular situation. JD just wants to not feel that everytime he raids there is gonna be drama over attitudes. and if you feel attacked by him then i am sorry but he just speaks how he feels and the reason it was put on the forums like this was cause of all the other people he talked to was feeling the same way and he is the only one that had enough nerve to say something.
Click to expand...

Thank you Lara,

Let me put this forth from me.

Please never take offense to what I said in a raid or during the raid right after pulls or before them. I am trying to be fast and efficient and sometime that can make people angry with me. I am trying to think of how I can make this work and do it in the least amount of time. If you have any issue with me please feel free to address the issue after the raid or in a PM so that this will not cause an issue and cause a build up. I have an open door/Vent policy if you want to talk on the phone just ask and I will give you my number. I have no problem talking on things said or how you felt they were said to you so that there can be no contention between me and anyone that has an issue with me. Where I don't hold hard feelings and want you to raid. I am gruff and blunt when I am trying to be efficient. After the fact I am calm and willing to talk about anything. I know I keep coming back to Jarlor (I am so proud with him) but I have spent many hours talking to him outside the Raids and when he asks questions on how to make a better PvE Rogue. I don't know how to make a PvP rogue I bet he is better at it than me and I would listen to him. I know that this was brought into a public light and causing issues and caused problems but for anyone else please come talk to me.

Have Fun everyone.

Ug
 
I know how hard it is to lead. The big problem is when we wipe the raid leader is the one who thinks wow is there something I am doing wrong and then worries that everyone else is thinking he/she is not a good leader. I hate when I lead and we wipe over and over and these are the things that go through my head. It is really hard to lead and the only difference between me and Ug is that I take it out on Arakk then she smacks me and I get back to leading. :eek:
 
Sazul said:
I know how hard it is to lead. The big problem is when we wipe the raid leader is the one who thinks wow is there something I am doing wrong and then worries that everyone else is thinking he/she is not a good leader. I hate when I lead and we wipe over and over and these are the things that go through my head. It is really hard to lead and the only difference between me and Ug is that I take it out on Arakk then she smacks me and I get back to leading. :eek:
Click to expand...

That is a Idea I can get my wife to be my censor. Now just how can I get her to play WoW?
 
I just want to toss in $0.02 from the peanut gallery as a completely uninvolved party. I've been out of WoW for months now, and while I enjoyed raiding when I had the chance, the prime guild raid times don't really mesh well with my RL responsibilities, so I was never what one would consider a core part of the raiding contingent of Redeemed/Sanctification.

With that said, I want to offer a little scripture that I feel addresses issues like this:

Matthew 18:15-17 (NIV)

15 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Personal issues between believers, whether they stem from sin or just disagreements, should be handled initially between the two concerned parties. If they can't resolve the issue between themselves then they bring in one or two people that they both respect to serve as moderators. Only if the issue still cannot be resolved should it be brought before the body as a whole. If both individuals are reasonable, then 95% of conflicts can be resolved between just the two parties.

Unfortunately, we have a habit of airing our dirty laundry for all to see - and I firmly place myself in this category, so I hope nobody feels that I'm pointing fingers at them that I am not also pointing at myself. Also unfortunately, this is the worst way to solve disagreements and conflicts. There's a reason God gives us the progression that He does - because it works. As a small group leader at my church, I've had to learn this lesson the hard way - and it's still in the process of sinking in. I've had to use it myself, and I've had to tell group members, "Don't talk to me about this, talk to the person you're having the issue with. If you two can't work it out, then come to me." And I've never had them have to come back to me.

Again, I'll be the first to point at myself - I've got the whole knucklehead thing down pat ;), but situations like this really need to be handled in a Biblical manner, sans drama.

Now, can we get back to the spam? :D
 
Last edited:
Sazul said:
I know how hard it is to lead. The big problem is when we wipe the raid leader is the one who thinks wow is there something I am doing wrong and then worries that everyone else is thinking he/she is not a good leader. I hate when I lead and we wipe over and over and these are the things that go through my head. It is really hard to lead and the only difference between me and Ug is that I take it out on Arakk then she smacks me and I get back to leading. :eek:
Click to expand...

Keeping a positive atttitiude as a raid leader is the hardest thing to do. Lets see, how many weeks again did we bang our head on Domo? You can't say that everything you mentioned didn't weigh heavily on me.

Things people in raids can do to help raid leaders:

1. Keep vent quiet. Raid leaders, class leaders are all trying to absorb informaton about what happened, what went wrong and what needs to be done in all areas to improve the strat in place and does there need to be a change in strat.

2. Your input for strats is better placed on the boards not during the raid. I'm sure raid leaders couldn't care less about how Ateam does it. The time for input is on the boards before or after the raid. Take the time to analyse what you did, what did you do right so you can do it again, what can you improve on.

3. Listen to raid leaders and class leaders or group leaders. Take your skills and knowledge and apply it to the tasks at hand. The leaders are making specific assumptions such as if we do A, B and C then D should be the result and if you feel doing E is what you ought to be doing instead of B, then the only result is F, for fail. There is no way to analyse what happened when something fails if somebody takes it upon themselves to do their own thing. Raids are WE time, a time to come together as a group and with co-ordinated team work, over come challanges. Redeemed has two nights for that, that means we all have 5 nights of ME time.

4. Understand emotions. Understand emotions under stress. We are all going to do and say stupid things on the spur of the moment when under emotional stress. If you do or say something stupid, apologize. If you didn't recognize it at the time and somebody calls you on it later, apologize. If somebody yells at you, don't take it personally, let it slide and if they don't apoligze right away, be patient and wait for a more opportune time to take the person aside and talk (not yell back) with them.

5. There is nobody in this guild who has done MC more then I. I've wiped on everybody with three learning teams. And no matter how much I hate that place, I will go because there is nothing more exciting and pleasing to me to see people who have never even heard of the place, kill mobs and bosses.

Any questions? If so, direct them to my personal assistant where she can put you in voice mail jail.


Things raid leaders can do to help raiders:

1. A little planning doesn't hurt. ie...Friday we plan on doing VR but if the group make up has less tanks then needed, we are going to hit up instance X
2. There is no individual failure. Its a team, work as a team, succeed as a team, fail as a team.
3. Let class leaders or a group leader handle some of the details. And be sure you have people in those positions you can trust to know their roles and responsibilities and to know who is the strongest for which position. Input is always appreciated but don't take it personally if its not followed through on.
4. Patience, patience, patience.
5. And if in case I didn't mention it, keep a positive attitude, don't sweat the little things. When the raid leader stops having fun, that filters down through out the team.
 
Last edited:
Gods_Peon said:
Things raid leaders can do to help raiders:

1. Planning is for noobs...just show up to have fun with guildies.
2. There is no I in T E A M but there is in ice cream.
3. Avesther, as the only class leader there, wants more to do.
4. Hurry up and have some fun.
5. And if in case I didn't mention it, make sure you have lots of bag space for leather balls. When the raid leader stops having fun, its time for more snowballs.
Click to expand...
FIXT
 
Where's words are a little harsh, but I don't feel they are any more harsh than the reactions raid leaders sometimes have to the members of the guild. I haven't played in a long while, but one thing that did used to frustrate me was the blame game that went on during the raids, usually behind the scenes (via whispers and such), but sometimes publicly (and, at times, I felt they were un-needed or more harsh than they needed to be). I feel that Where is just trying to address a fragile situation, and there's no good way to do it. Keeping it private doesn't resolve the matter, it just allows it to be hidden (and please don't believe I'm attempting to be unbiblical here, for Jesus didn't have many recorded private conversations in which he disagreed or "called someone out" on something - he usually just said something like, 'Hey fool, what in the world are you thinking?').

I'm not trying to condone how Where brought this about, just as I don't condone the attitudes I have seen represented over vent and through chat. However, I don't think what he has said should be ignored simply because someone disagreed with the avenue through which he chose to share it. I feel he has a good point, and this is something I have felt when I played several months ago. If this is still an issue, can it somehow be resolved, please?
 
Last edited:
You know you are right tebby:) HI by the way, that this situation was just not where by himself, but he was the only one the has stepped up and said something. You know alot of people are mad at JD for espressing his feelings and feelings of some people, but soemone needed to do it unfort. I know raiding is stressful but it dont help when I hear the same stress over vent or in chat, and the blame game is even harder. I wish that we all can work this out and not let mordos and ug quit leading raid. I feel we can all work together as a TEAM and get further than we are at this moment
 
For the record, I am not mad at anyone... well that is not true I am only mad at Baddwin for not vacuuming the entire time we lived together in college (two years).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top