Missing bird-dinosaur link found?

[b said:
Quote[/b] (Ultima Avatar @ Feb. 05 2003,4:43)]your goals are to become the next Hugh Hefner.
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Mmm. Hugh Hefner. My hero, idol, and the man I emulate in all my thoughts and actions.

Actually, no. In reality I attempt to emulate Vladimir Lenin. Or was it Karl Marx? Aw, bugger, I'm confused again. Anyway, FOR THE MASSES! Where's my hammer and sickle?

(an' before anyone says anything, I'm a Russian and have every right to say the above. Hell, I was a Young Pioneer once, and almost got signed into Comsomol. *shudder*)
 
No. Some things are "For the times"
Other things are for "All Times"

any form of fornication or adultry is forbidden because he defiles the marriage bed.  Not because of rampant children, but because a marriage is a Holy union between man, woman and God.


At the same time, when Paul told women to be in submission to their husbands that was not "for the times " either. That was Paul restating the way the marriage should be built.  The wife should submit to her husband, and the husband should be a servant leader to the wife.  No punching, no degrading.  It is just there needs to be a leader in the union.  It is the husband's responisbility to deal with the problems, and to do so that is the most beneficial way for his family.  Now did I say a woman couldn't deal with a problem? no.  Did I say a woman should be weak-minded, uneducated, and downtrodden? no.

But I did say a woman should obey her husband in the matters of what happens to the family.  i.e. should we move, that is a decision ultimately up to the husband.  should he take his wife's opinion on the matter? yes.  Should he decide to do what is BEST for the family. Yes.  Should the wife submit to the husband once the decision is made? yes.

does the wife have to get the husband a glass of tea, everytime he rattles the ice in his glass?  no, hire a maid or butler for that.
 
Well this is sexist, plain and simple. Saying a man should be in charge merely because he is a man is sexist, and I'm quite surprised and a little scared so many believe it in this modern day. I am glad to see some Christians here disagree though.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Actually, no. In reality I attempt to emulate Vladimir Lenin. Or was it Karl Marx? Aw, bugger, I'm confused again. Anyway, FOR THE MASSES! Where's my hammer and sickle?
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*sigh*

You might be Russian, but my dad's family had to live under the Soviet Union for a period of time.  Anyone who wants Communism seems to have never experienced it, although you seem to have had a taste which is why I find it interesting you would wish to put up with that.
 
I say again, there has NEVER been a system that has properly espoused Communism. We've had Socialists. We've had Marxist Leninists. We've had Trotskyites.

We've had NO Communists.

Communism is an ECONOMIC system, not a POLITICAL system.

Eon
 
I would argue that you really cant have actual communism without a totalitarian government, but its all theory. Basically since communism is a total command economy, the government gets to decide what each person will do as a profession, where they work, etc... They get to decide which industries they will allow and which they wont. Don't think it would work in a liberal democracy.
 
And, as in the few times it's been attempted in modern times, it tends to lead to an ENORMOUS bureacracy.

Eon
 
Damar.......what? You said anythign about contraception? OUr argument was about women submitting to man, not anything about abortion/virginity/adultery/contraception. Where'd you pull that from?
A Few Good Men....great movie. I don't recollect the line you mentioned Eon. As for punching bags: I never said I wanted a wife I could beat around: I wanted a wife I could live with and share a life with. I could say, do this. She could say, do this. ANd we'd do it. I wouldn't mind a woman who asserts herself: but I definitely don't want a woman who controls everything. That is one thing I would never put up with in my home.
Communism never works out. It always leads to some kind of dictatorship, or an extensive oligarchy of sorts. Communism doesn't pay off: it never has. In fact, it's never worked under the guise of whatever title applied to it throughout the countries and times.
What communism would accomplish is this: a chaotic system of one ruling order over all others. You did what whoever in charge said to do, and if you questioned that authority, to jail or to the noose you go, if you don't get out of the country in time.
Communism would never work: people need a democracy, or at least a decent monarchy: not a totalitarian system, which, to say the least, is what communism would be established with.
 
Communism may be a theory, but we can all come to the following conclusions:

1) It's a stupid economic theory

2) It's impossible to impliment
 
1. It's a sensible economic theory. Stupid is concentrating 95% of your economic power into 5% of the population so that instead of using it to useful ends they can make expensive designer crap that is designed to BREAK EARLY so that they need to buy more.

2.It's impossible to implement in a Capitalist Consumerist state, because the very people responsible for installing it would be the people who stand to gain the most from it failing.
 
Ultima, are you normally this stupid or just being deliberately obtuse?..
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]1. It's a sensible economic theory. Stupid is concentrating 95% of your economic power into 5% of the population so that instead of using it to useful ends they can make expensive designer crap that is designed to BREAK EARLY so that they need to buy more.
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They have to make crap to break so that people will buy more because that's the only way companies will make any money. If I buy a car that will last forever than I will never buy another one and all car companies will go out of business, causing thousands of people to lose their jobs. Are you suggesting that Communism is better than Capitalism? Would you rather live in a Communist country or a Capitalist one?

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]2.It's impossible to implement in a Capitalist Consumerist state, because the very people responsible for installing it would be the people who stand to gain the most from it failing.
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Than why has Communism never been successfully implemented anywhere? Would you like to explain that too me? Do you honestly think that it will promote peace and harmony?
 
Eon: communism is very foolish. There is no way that one set of people can dictate to others that every man is equal in wages, while that same set dips their hands into the funds of the country for themselves.
IT is an oligarchy for those who set it up, and nothing else. Today, our economies are very lame. America's is trashy because all it is this: make stuff expensive but cheap, so that others can go to you to buy more of it. Sell a certain food from one company that sells a certain animal so that when you buy that animal, you go to that company for more and more of their food, or else your animal will die. It's very twisted, but not nearly as twisted as thriving off the riches of the country while your "equal" friends are payed 50 cents an hour for slaving to your needs.
Not that it's much different from America, but at least there is a chance of success to any man who gives the required effort to succeed in earthly life. COmmunism gives no such chance.
 
As to you Damar: what is so stupid? Are you Communist? No. I didn't think so. You're only Russian. That doesn't make you Communist. And being Socialist doesn't mean you're an avid supporter of it. Look at George Orwelle! Geez. HE slammed them any chance in his books, 1984, Animal Farm: all of them pointing out Socialism's extreme faults and hypocrisy.
Communism never works as well as Capitalism. And I dare you, Damar, to disprove that.
 
One of the things I find wildly amusing is how everyone's a Communist while they're living in their big houses with all their money, and the people living in those countries are despirately trying to escape them. They'll join them if they try and put their money where their mouth is no doubt.
 
I'd prefer to live in a Liberal Communism than in a Facist Capitalism. Democracy has nothing to do with it - you can have a Democratic Communism. Except without big business who'll bribe all the politicians? LOL

Capitalism is a fine economic choice - provided you're focused on growth at the expense of all else. It will prove to be a means, not an end.

Eon
 
Aren't Capitalist countries currently on top of the world? I thought so! Want to know the reason for it? Communism is stupid, socialism is also stupid. Want proof? Take a trip down to Cuba and see what it's really like when people try to adopt garbage like that, then come back and preach to me about its superiority.
 
It all depends what your yardstick for measuring success is. I think Cuba is doing pretty bloody well for being a tiny island that has been unfairly embargoed for almost forty years by the world's biggest superpower.

Saying Capitalist societies win, because they have more money is ridiculous, since ostentatious an inefficient consumption of wealth is what makes Capitalism work - is it's PRIMARY focus. If you look at what Capitalist countries are actually achieving with the money they're making and their GDP, you might get a bit of an embarrassing shock.

Here's some Health and Education statistics for you....

Health Statistics
Cuba and the USA have the same Life Expectancy, Infant Mortality and Adult Female Mortality statistics. Cuban Adult Males actually live longer on average than their US counterparts.

13.6% of the US GDP is spent on Health, as opposed to only 9.6% of the Cuban GDP - but the Cuban government manages to allocate 8.4% of its spending on Health, as opposed to a measly 6.2% in the US.

Cuba manages to provide 5.3 physicians for every 1,000 people in the population. The US can only manage 2.7 physicians for that same thousand people. Cuban citizens enjoy 5.1 hospital beds per 1,000 people, whilst US citizens make do with only 4.0 per 1,000 people.

Education Statistics
Cuban and US Literacy levels are roughly equivalent. US children spend far more time actually IN school, with the average US child spending 4.7 years more in school than his Cuban counterpart. This is due to a vastly increased enrollment in Secondary school and College in the US. Whilst most Cubans (81%) attend Secondary school, only 13% seem to attend college. 81% of Americans attend college, and 97% recieve Secondary schooling.

HOWEVER Cuban schools seem to be more fully resourced than their American counterparts. The Student/Teacher ratio in Cuban Primary AND Secondary schools is much lower than the US. US Secondary school attendees have only one teacher per 15 students, as opposed to Cuba's 10. Secondary school Teacher/Student ratio's are similar at 16:1 and 12:1 .

In addition to this the Cuban people spend 6.7% of their GDP for Education, as opposed to the US's 5.4%.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]It all depends what your yardstick for measuring success is. I think Cuba is doing pretty bloody well for being a tiny island that has been unfairly embargoed for almost forty years by the world's biggest superpower.
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Blaming the Americans is the past-time of the rest of the world and quite frankly I'm sick of it!  Take a trip and look at the conditions these people live in, and then we'll see how well they're really doing!

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Saying Capitalist societies win, because they have more money is ridiculous, since ostentatious an inefficient consumption of wealth is what makes Capitalism work - is it's PRIMARY focus. If you look at what Capitalist countries are actually achieving with the money they're making and their GDP, you might get a bit of an embarrassing shock.
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Whatever you say. I challenge you to find a Communist state doing better! You wont, and there is a reason for that!

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Cuba and the USA have the same Life Expectancy, Infant Mortality and Adult Female Mortality statistics. Cuban Adult Males actually live longer on average than their US counterparts.
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And I'm sure that Cuban people enjoy their controlled lives much more that the freedom that the Americans do right?

Besides, the "national average" also includes people who don't take care of their bodies.  Are a lot of Americans obese?  Yes, because they eat far too much.  Cuba doesn't have this problem, and if you want to know why go see what they eat, and ask yourself why they eat so little.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]13.6% of the US GDP is spent on Health, as opposed to only 9.6% of the Cuban GDP - but the Cuban government manages to allocate 8.4% of its spending on Health, as opposed to a measly 6.2% in the US.
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That's also a percentage, not an amount.  If 60% of people who wear red shirts make $100 000 anually, and there are 100 people who wear red shirts, there are still less people wearing red shirts with that salary than those wearing yellow if 40% of people wearing yellow shirts do, with 10 000 yellow shirt wearers.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]HOWEVER Cuban schools seem to be more fully resourced than their American counterparts. The Student/Teacher ratio in Cuban Primary AND Secondary schools is much lower than the US. US Secondary school attendees have only one teacher per 15 students, as opposed to Cuba's 10. Secondary school Teacher/Student ratio's are similar at 16:1 and 12:1 .
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<sarcasm>Ladies and gentlemen, THIS is why we need Communism to rule the planet!  Cuba is obviously superior to the United States of America because of this and the other stats we have just seen!</sarcasm>

Eon, given what you've just presented, where would you rather live, the USA or Cuba, and why?
 
Umm, I also hate to toss this to you Eon: but Cuba has a significantly lower population than America does, and it would make sense that they could fit more to a hospital room than we could, and also have more focus on the sick and such things, with fewer people.
 
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