Missing bird-dinosaur link found?

I don't see anything wrong with cloning organs and so on. It is creating a human from scratch that I don't like.

I don't know much about cloning, but that may even be impossible, or at the very least way down the road.
 
For sure it's way down the road - and more to the point, what's the point in creating perfectly healthy bodies, when we already have lots and lots of people?

Now, when they get intellect and personality transference then we're looking at an interesting technology...


Eon
 
Evolution is the only rational attempt to explain the origin of life. It attempts to pull together *some* scientific ground. Granted, some of it has to be accepted without tangible proof but with logical conclusions.

Don't know about you, but I'll take logical conclusions, if *possibly* flawed, over "there was a big bearded man in the sky who snapped his fingers and the world appeared" any time.

Then again, drawing conclusions requires the usage of brain. Religion only requires "complete and total obedience" (just like Dr. Doom, heeh).
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Even if it could lead to the curing of deadly diseases, and allow organ transplants to many people desperatly in need?
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I'm sorry, but treating a person as an organ farm just seems wrong to me.  We're capable of curing diseases without that, but they develop drugs like Viagra(which has actually helped one individual for an actual health problem, but we all know what it was developed for) instead of pouring that money into AIDS and cancer research.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Evolution is the only rational attempt to explain the origin of life.
Click to expand...

Do you have any scientific qualifications to make that statement, or are you simply smiling and nodding at anything that some scientists say(evolution theories do vary)?
 
I'm not "smiling and nodding", that's what you prayboys do.

I don't deny that evolution is partly based on presumptions, at least macro-evolution. But the way these presumptions are made is a far cry from "let there be light".

The Bible is just a collection of fairy-tales and justifications for various rulers' actions. There's nothing beyond the wall. Not a #### thing. It's just us humans clinging to the idea that something is greater than the organic matter we're made of.
 
hello damar,

when you have some time, sift through apologetics.
got question to ask you as well. what do you live for?
thanks

daniel
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]The Bible is just a collection of fairy-tales and justifications for various rulers' actions. There's nothing beyond the wall. Not a #### thing. It's just us humans clinging to the idea that something is greater than the organic matter we're made of.
Click to expand...
A perfect example that having faith that you have all the answers isn't unique to those with religion. You have no more proof Christians are wrong than they do they're right.
 
Well, that's not strictly true - Evolution is based upon a logical extension to a provable system, complete with circumstantial evidence and a constantly evolving body of experimentation and study.

Creationism is based upon a rigourous application of calcified theology, hinging upon a few archaeological circumstantial facts and through an attempt to fight fires in conflicting scientific evidence.

Eon
 
Then you know what we Christians would say: some faction of us would decide that God created us through evolution. There is a true GAP theory between verse 1 and verse 2 of Genesis 1.
Stupid.
And Damar....well, that's just about how every biased atheist would react: Christians just use fairytales. According to all my research, and all atheists', y'all have yet to succeed in proving God doesn't exist, and we have yet to prove he does.
As for cloning: I would not accept it. "Even if it helped produce medicine/give people a second chance at life" I would not support it.
Anyone read yesterday's Mallard Fillmore? About spokespersons for some organizations saying that "cloning a human embryo is one step closer to cloning a person?"
Heheheheheh! That's rich, because America doesn't view embryos as fully human/persons yet. Heheheh!
 
Which is why cloning an embryo is one step closer to cloning a human being and NOT cloning a human being. ;)

Eon
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (daniel @ Jan. 31 2003,4:23)]hello damar,

when you have some time, sift through apologetics.
got question to ask you as well. what do you live for?
thanks

daniel
Click to expand...
I live for success. I live for knowledge. I live to make a statement, to no one other than myself. I set a goal and I achieve it... or I don't... but it's not about the goal, it's about the path.

Sure I win some and then I lose some, and sometimes I have to deal with failure and pick up the pieces and move on. But no matter what happens, it's me who makes it happen, my good luck or lousy luck, my skills, my brain. There's no bearded man in flowing robes perched up on a cloud with a dusty book in hand, pulling my strings like a puppeteer. And when my number's up, I want to be able to look back in my last three minutes of life and say that, in the end, I kicked arse.

By the way, what do YOU live for?
 
Dear Damar,

I just wanted you to know what I live for. There's no "bearded man in flowing robes" that pulls my strings like a puppeteer. HE is GOD, Maker of Heaven and Earth, and someday you're gonna have to answer to Him. What's gonna be your response? "I did my best", or "Gee, God, I tried."? The Bible says that all of our righteousness(i.e. "good works", etc.) are as filthy rags. We all mess up in life, man; it's called SIN. I'm not perfect, and I don't claim to be. But Jesus Christ offered us a way out of sin, by coming down from Heaven as a mediator between God and us. All we have to do is accept his FREE gift of EVERLASTING LIFE, and believe in our hearts that He came, was crucified, and rose on the third day. Jesus was the one that took our sins upon himself for us. Now, you may ask me, "But what if you're wrong? What if there is no God to appear before when we die?" But what I would ask is, "But what if I'm right, and you're wrong?" Just think about it....
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]There's no bearded man in flowing robes perched up on a cloud with a dusty book in hand, pulling my strings like a puppeteer.
Click to expand...


That is your view of God? a puppeteer? Can you elaborate a little on where you pull this assumption from?

Cory
 
Do you really not see it? I assumed that in order to be a Christian you'd have to see it and not mind, particularly. To claim not to see Yahweh as giant puppeteer seems particularly disingenous - or do you not believe he is omniscient and omnipotent? Responsible for the creation of everything - including Sin, Hell, Satan, Evil etc?

Eon
 
No, I don't see God as a puppeteer. He doesn't pull our strings and make us "jump to his bidding." If he did, what would be the point in free will? Wouldn't he just snap his fingers and we all obey him? But that is not His way. We have a will to chose our own actions. We have been given the boundries, rewards and consequences. The choices we make are ours.

Cory
 
Wow Damar. That's a pretty closed view of life, huh? To look back and say, "Hey, I did pretty good through life."
BUt you know: it's all empty unless you have God. Which is a sad end and not a good achievement, if you think of it.
Chuck Colson defines success as being obedient to God. Now that is the success I like.
AS for puppeteer: I've seen God like that at times, but then I wonder: we have free will, true enough, but I also believe that we are predestined in our fates. God knows all things, don't he? It would make sense that if he didn't know what our lives would end up in, then he isn't almighty/God. God has to have set our lives out for us. BUt we have choices in this life until the end.
I don't think GOd's a puppeteer any longer, though I once did.
 
I'd love to know how you figure you have any free will, when your life is part of a web that was decided before the world was even made - according to your scripture.

Eon
 
It is thus: God made us to choose either to obey him or to obey their lusts.
In the beginning, man chose their lusts. Their downfall. So with that, it began a larger scale of choice: obey God or obey self. So in that sense we have free will: in this life, do we obey the Maker, or the Made?
Now, God made us all and knew us before we were conceived. So he also knew that we would sin against him. I'm currently writing a story on Satan's perspective of that, for any of those interested in reading what I've got so far.
So we are predestined to a fate, to actions, to thoughts and such: but in the way to our fates, we have choices to make that affect how we see our life and what goes on in our lives, but not in the PLan. I'm sure you understand what I mean: free will has an affection on the immediate, predestiny is what we commit free will in.
Do you understand?
Or, if you don't like that: beliefs can't be explained. They just are. You must choose what you believe. There is no evidence to support belief: it is solely personal. God cannot be proven: it is only faith.
 
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