Missing bird-dinosaur link found?

Hmmm... I suppose you're saying that just because God knows what we'll decide before we decide it, that makes him no more culpable for what we decide than someone who bets on a horse in race is for that horse winning?

Is that right?

Eon
 
Uh, no. God didn't create us to see who would make it to the finish. He created us to worship him, and at the same time, to have fun in an awesome paradise.
And then we sinned. The only time we could have chosen to stay with HIm forever, we decided to go the other way, and now we're degenerated to this pathetic excuse for humanity.
No. God is sovereign: he is in control. Whatever happens, he knows it, and he lets it happen. There's nothing that surprises him. If there was, I'd be confused and probably go kill myself.
 
So, in other words, I was right. Thanks Ultima... <Grin>

God set the whole thing up and, IMO, it would be entirely disingenous of him to act all upset, jealous and angry.

Eon
 
There I must disagree. God is perfect, almighty, and all-there. You've heard that before, I'm sure. You strike me as a wise man, and one lectured in the Word, I believe.
I cannot prove God has predestined us all. I believe it though. And in doing so: he has every right to be angry over sin. I don't think God is some sadistic cosmic gamer that is twiddling his thumbs with us.
I believe God has predestined us all to a fate, but he can still be disappointed and wrathful in our decision. He has set up an apostasy: the falling away of the faith, a test to prove the mettle of his believers, and to see who is truly His, and an end for all those who aren't, and an end for all those who are His.
It's more of like.....a play. In a sense. I dunno. I can't prove we're predestined, but I have this vague feeling we are.
 
i believe that's exactly what your dogma says, although it skirts around the issue with all this pretence of free will.

And so it begs the question again. If God KNOWS we'll fail. And God MADE us so we WOULD fail. What right does he have to be angry when we do?

And how does his right to be angry with us stack up against our right to be angry with him?

Eon
 
God knows our intentions..oftentimes they are seelfish ones. We however, do not know God's will. He can see the whole picture. We can't
 
Which makes me stare up at the skies now....watched The Thing From Outer Space.....WATCH THE SKIES.
Why must we wait for God's will? I groan.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
I live for success. I live for knowledge. I live to make a statement, to no one other than myself. I set a goal and I achieve it... or I don't... but it's not about the goal, it's about the path.

hello damar,

just curious, what do all those things you've mentioned achieve in the end?
you asked what i live for as well, i do my best to mirror the life christ did. doing everything with God in mind, of course i have trouble doing that all the time, it's a matter of practice. right now, i'm trying to do things which won't be in vain after i die.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]just curious, what do all those things you've mentioned achieve in the end?
Like he said, it's not the end that matters. I think it makes our life here on earth all the more important and precious if there is nothing after it. Instead of our lives being simply waiting to be called to heavan (or hell) for eternity, eternity is much longer than I want to be around, even if it's "paradise". I may be digressing here, but seeing as I dont really believe in an afterlife, alot of people ask me where we go when we die. Seems to me like we go to the same place we were before we were born, nothing scary, painful or awful about that was there?
 
What Mr. Mustard said there.

It's not the destination, it's the path. There's no end to it, no stopping, because once you stop, you're dead.

If you want to emulate Christ, dress in robes, run around the streets with some riffraff following you, preach nonsense, prejudice and hate, and get beat by the police and forgotten.

Yay, what a fullfilling lifestyle.
 
so you think Christians walk around wearing white robes and wave a bible around hoping to gain a following?

what we mean by emulating Christ is by following his example. He did no wrong, he listened to everyone (even women!), he spoke the truth no matter what consequences, he had integrity, he was humble. I don't think I'll be abel to do the rising from the dead part, but I can try my best at his other qualities.

Seriously the worldly view of life is to die with the most toys. I'd rather not be rememered for my earthly possesions but by being a good, kind hearted and honest person.
 
Ah Cheryl, Cheryl, that is SO not enough though, according to your own book.

You need to be "salt and light", don't you? Strive not to just avoid evil, but to smash it in every shape and form (even if it makes you a hateful bigot). You need to carry the WORD. Oh, and by the way, how does the submission deal working out for you? I hope you've been obeying your husband's every whim, or no seat for you on the Heaven Train... hee-hee-hee-hee.
 
Ahhhh, Damar, you neglect to realize the submissive instruction was given to women of the times.  Modern women need not follow.  Why?  I'll save you the google search and tell you myself.  Women did not receive the education that men of the times had in matters of religion.  Having said that, the men of the house were assigned the task of being religious leader for the family.  Would you want one of your corporals calling the shots while having your generals doing the grunt work?  No?  I didn't think so, so why wouldn't you order the most educated member to lead the family?

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]preach nonsense, prejudice and hate

Ladies and gentlmen, I present to you a classic example of an ignoramus!
 
Definitely so my friend Tom.
As to you Damar: you are gravely mistaken. To emulate Christ does not mean to take up his dress, to go out and buy perfect replicas of his sandals, to grow a beard, and turn your skin tan if you're white, and get blue eyes, for that was how most Galileans/Nazarenes were set for their eyes.
As to riffraff: one of those riffraff was a tax collector, another was a doctor, another was a Pharisee, in fact, a Pharisee of Pharisees, one who would be upheld before any Pharisee.
Others were fishers, and they turned from fishers of fish to fishers of men. I'm sure that you have not read Scriptures thoroughly, however, or else you wouldn't make such a blanket statement.
As to the submissive instruction of the women: Shakespeare had something to say about that in the last speech Katherina gave in The Taming of the Shrew: marriage is not a tyrannical thing where the man or woman lords it over their mate. It is a unity, a bonding, a single form: what one wants should be for them both. What one does should be for both. It is not a domination position: it is a coalition of two beings into one, and more than just physically.
However, I'm not married, so I won't comment on that. And you strike me as about as mature as a third grader, Damar.
And it's time for you to have some education, as well. As to the "Heaven Train", God will not bar one out of heaven for not subverting themselves to another, except for to God. God hates sin. That's what will keep you out of heaven; that and a lack of trust and acceptance of the free self-sacrifice that Jesus Christ took upon himself. THe "Heaven Train" is not for all. The road is narrow, the Bible says, but the road to destruction is wide, and many shall take that path. As for you, judging from what you've said and enunciated, you've got an express, first-class ticket on the "Highway to Hell."
Not to be mean, or to be a zealot saying: JOIN ME OR BURN! but it's true.
And what CCGR says is true: it's not the person we emulate: it's the actions. I'm sure you, Damar, don't emulate the dress of Satan, or the dress of Margaret Sanger, or the dress of Charles Darwin, or of Stephen Jay Goulde.
I don't copy God's dress either. But I do try my best to follow his traits, those perfect traits of Him. I don't know what you follow, or what you emulate in your life, but it sure doesn't sound like the traits of God.
AS to our possessions on this world: I don't believe that is what matters. So in essence, Mustard and Damar, your goals are to become the next Hugh Hefner. HE, has it all that the world needs. Money, fame, a house, and girls. Tons of them.
But you'll NEVER reach Hugh Hefner status. Plus he's gonna die in a few years. So all that work will be nil for you. And Hugh Hefner has attained all that your current worldview looks at.
As for me: I must continue to work and strive until death to reach my goal: the end. And my friend, the path you take and the choices you make all effect the end and what goes on in your path. If you choose to commit suicide in this path, thus ends it. If you choose to do something outrageously criminal and are imprisoned, that pretty much shaves off a large part of your path.
And I won't deny it is the path that will have effect on the end. All it takes is a choice to alter your eternity forever: the choice to accept Jesus Christ as Lord, Savior and God, or the choice to rebel against HIm, and deny Him your Savior. That is your choice. But that means you've given up the fight: you shall slip down into the furthest reeking pits that humanity has to offer, and all to attain this feeble, pathetic goal of yours: to do as much as you want, as you can, until you die. And then it's all over.
My friends: that is your choice. But I have my own to make: and it will be a glorious day indeed at my end: for all my actions shall all be tied to one: the choice that I made to accept Jesus Christ as Savior.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Damar Stiehl @ Feb. 05 2003,2:56)]Ah Cheryl, Cheryl, that is SO not enough though, according to your own book.

You need to be "salt and light", don't you? Strive not to just avoid evil, but to smash it in every shape and form (even if it makes you a hateful bigot). You need to carry the WORD. Oh, and by the way, how does the submission deal working out for you? I hope you've been obeying your husband's every whim, or no seat for you on the Heaven Train... hee-hee-hee-hee.
I'm glad you have a basic understanding of the bible.  (knowing that it's not by works that one is saved, yes you can also tell a true Christian by their fruit.)  You are also correct regarding us being the salt and the light.  We will stand out like sore thumbs at times but it's neccessary to stand our ground and not push into peer pressure.  We accept Jesus as creator and savior for us.  We don't believe we came from pond scum, we do believe in an after life.  We don't bash non-believers, we tell them the truth and they can take it or leave it.  If we don't approve of their sin, we still love them as a person.  Even if they wrong us!

I have a free mind in my marriage.  Yes Paul* commanded wives to be submissive but he also commanded the husbands to love their lives as Christ loves his church.  Hello?  Christ died for his church, he loves us deeply.  On another note, the bible does say not to withhold from your spouse and that my friend does go both ways in a marriage.

*correction
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Yes Christ commanded wives to be submissive

I don't believe that's correct Cheryl. Paul gave that instruction, and it had to do with the times.
 
Yeh. Paul said it for the times.
For the times.
For the times.
FOR THE TIMES! That's all I hear. Ever. "Errrhuhuh, that was a command from Paul because of the times and the laws and the respect and blah blah." I don't really ever haev a reason for the whole respect thing.
And besides: wives should be submissive to their husbands. It's part of the union of marriage. I'm sure you guys would be hecka uncomfortable being subverted by a dominatrix. I sure would. I would never marry someone like that. Women are to be submissive to the man, but the man and the woman are to coexist together and live together in harmony, and to help each other out: it's a two-way thing.
 
I want a partner, not a punch bag. If you want a passive-agressive, whining and nagging weakling, Ultima, then be my guest. We certainly aren't in competition for the same sort of woman.

I, on the other hand, want a woman who knows what she wants and is not afraid to ask for it. I love it when a partner says "X happened. I dealt with it." or "I want to do Y this weekend, any problems?".

There's a great quote from Jack Nicholsons character in "A Few Good Men" that is, unfortunately, not quotable in this forum. Those of you who've watched the film will know what I'm talking about though...


Eon
 
I've just one question to those who keep saying "for the times, for the times". Are you boys and girls trying to amend your own sacred text? What the hell kind of believers does that make you?

Let's make a parallel. In biblical times, contraception was either unreliable or inaccessible or non-existant, almost. Hence sleeping around could result in unwanted children who, without a provider, would surely die or at least live in squalor.

Hence, do not commit adultery (which is, shall we agree, any sex outside of marriage, not just cheating).

Presently, we have quite enough ways to prevent conception. And anyone with half a brain can learn to use them efficiently. Yes, there are still chances of unwanted children, but the said children probably aren't necessarily doomed to die without a man to provide for them.

So, the above instruction was just for the times. Does this mean you won't get all cross with me for presently having three girlfriends? Gee, I sure hope so. I mean, it's all for the times. The times. The TIMES!!
 
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