I am frustrated.

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Avesther

Avesther

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I am very frustrated, steaming mad frustrated. And I am not the only one. My frustration is not limited to any single person in the guild, any group of persons in the guild, or the guild leadership. My frustration is, this is the goal and that goal hasn't been reached, as a matter of fact, the first step towards that goal hasn't been reached. I'm to the point that if I don't vent, I'll simply walk away. I think by venting, we will have a chance of discussion and time of prevention rather then complete shock to find out that Redeemed is down another healer. If any of these seems to speak to anybody personally, it most likely is and you aren't the only one it is speaking to.

Progression is not about loot. And everybody in the guild who says "Man I wish I had X loot from Y boss in Z instance" when we haven't even downed the first boss in D instance, shut up. I'm tired of hearing about it. If you said it once in a blue moon, thats one thing, thats wishful thinking, that could be chalked up to gear planing, but I hear about it every time I'm on and I'm tired of it and I am not the only one tired of hearing about it. I too dream of items that are on the horizon but I work to keep my attention on the hear and now. Progression in this guild is not about loot that you may get, it is supposed to be about getting together with fellow believers and friends and over coming challanges and exploring new content together.

I want to see what beyond the first few bosses in TK, I want to see whats beyond Lurker, I want to see more of ZA, I want to see Hyjal and the Black Temple. I want to see the phat lewtz and what people will get and how they will use it, but to focus on that as much as I have seen is deeply disturbing. Less focus on lewt, more focus on pew pew, heal heal, tank tank.

I'm frustated that when we finally get 25 people together to run a lurker not everybody is giving their 100%. If you get knocked back 100yards from Lurkers spout, asking why that happened is entirely innapropriate. I know for a fact that Quantam explained that aspect of the fight before even engaging, he even suggests that we all practice getting into the water and back out so that it becomes second nature. So the questioned asked should be "Why didn't you do what you were supposed to do when Quantam gave a 5 second warning on spout, or in lieu of that warning, when your boss mod said it was 5 seconds to Lurkers spout?"

When I click on you to heal you and I see that you have no or too few or inappropriate consumable buffs, I ask myself, why do I even bother. Everybody in a progression raid should have a battle - guardian elixir combo or a flask in lieu, a weapon buff and a food buff all appropriate to their role in the raid. I find the time to fish for golden darters or farm gold to buy the other consumables or the mats for the other consumables I require, I even beg Goblit to help me with them, you find the time to do the same. Or please, drop 250g in my mailbox per raid, and I'll do it for you. I'll be happy to share that gold with my partners, who would be Goblit to make what ever consumables she can for ya. But then, if you take the easy way out, I don't think you aught to be in the raid. Raiding is tough and people who look for shortcuts should be short listed to the cut from raiding list.

I'm also tired of seeing people not bandaging themselves assuming a heal is coming. In VR, if you take an arcane blast or on lurker, after getting out of the water, bandage yourself. We used to have a rule, if you don't have a bandage debuff on you after taking inconsistant damage (taking a random shadowbolt, or when the whole raid takes a specifically timed aoe damage), then you wouldn't get healed. In lurker, after getting out of the water, or after taking a geyser or a whirlwind, bandage yourself for crying out loud. If you don't have heavy netherweave bandage skill, go and get it, skill up your first aid.

Greens in raids. There are a few people still doing this. It bugged me when I lead MC and BWL, it bugs me even more as a simple participant. If you are in SSC\TK or ZA with greens, you are not bringing enough of your role to the table to ensure any hope of success for the group. There are alot of level 70 instances, and heroics and now, to some extent even Kara. Get geared up in them. Don't expect progression raids to get you from a green to a T5 or better epic. It is unfair because quite honestly, you have caused that raid to work extra hard to cover their own short comings and yours. I've also seen a few people with greens turn down invites to instances that have gear upgrades for them. Shame on you! I spent the time prepping for Kara, I spent thousands of gold getting tailoring to 375 from zero (dropped herbalism to pick it up) so I could have the PMC set, I ran instances until they were mind numbing upgrading all my green gear to the priests halloowed set or better if it could be found. Now there are daily instance and daily heroics, which, if you are looking for a healer to do, you'll have something to entice me and other healers and tanks with. Pick up the dungeon dailies, get into the dungeons and do them.

I am as frustrated at the lack of healers in this guild as the next guy. Do you honestly think it is fun running instance after instance, group quest after group quest and never getting to do the stuff I enjoy doing? So often I see three level 70's in guild asking for a healer to do three different things. I check the guild list and see that I'm the only healer not committed to something else. Instead of playing favorites, I'd much rather walk away from game, or log onto an alt that is no longer in the guild.

I see healers and tanks in the 60 to 69 range asking for help on an instance or some quests and their cries fall on deaf ears. Seriously, this guild has cancelled weeks and months worth of raids for want of tanks and healers and you ignore those people who are the ones who will get the raids up and going again? I've logged on to my rogue alt to help them, and when nobody in the guild is willing to give us two cents to the day, I've asked healers and tanks to start looking at PuGs. We are so down on healers and tanks it simply floors me. Speaking of healers:

Holy priests:
Mituba - Left the game
Icthus - MIA
Heavencent - MIA
Laraptor - Reduced time

Holy pallies:
Lukey - MIA
Chinatown - Left for greener pastures
Citgrad - MIA (Reduced time)
Champoflight - MIA
Brugalin - MIA

Resto Druids:
Miriallia - MIA
Gilga - Low playtime player
Wulf - MIA

We are missing 11 healers off the top of my head, we only have 7 progression raid healers available off the top of my head, thats over half the healing core gone. I'm sure somebody could list the tank situation and it too would be in dire straights.

Its 3am, I'm going to bed. So I'll end my rant here for know.
Pink items, edit 1
 
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Lara- had a baby and time has gone away from being able to commit very well to raids:(

Brug is MIA

Tanks-
Where-similar, I can play more than her but I also risk getting wife aggro now when I raid and she sits behind me watching:(
Tebran- Serve us proudly Teb:)
FJ-same as mituba
Mordos-
 
I think this is part of the year when nearly everyone is very busy with something. We have Thanksgiving right around the corner, school is finishing up for the semester, church activities are raring to go for the holidays, and others are just participating in other aspects of life.

I'm sorry to hear about your frustration. I'll pray for you (plural), and I wish the best.
 
I would love to spend more time getting Tarl geared up. Unfortunately, I'm one of those that still has green items. However, since my wife plays, I am obligated to play with her. I told her that we need to focus on getting her main (Abital) up to 70. That will serve three purposes: 1) We will have a 70 Shadow Priest to start raiding with us. 2) It will give us another tank for raids, Deuteronomy. 3) It will give Tarl a chance to get better gear for raids. I hope we will be able to help in a few weeks. :)
 
I am right there with you Avesther. I am going to focus on my Holy Paladin for the Next couple of weeks. I am going to play him and I need help doing quests because it takes forever to do anything on a Holy paladin.
 
Avesther you are very, very much appreciated and you are a real contributor to the guild and I thank you very much for being so willing to help people. We all need to vent sometime and you make good points.

Goodwone is feeling a bit wornout trying to handle issues to help guildies(though not so well I'm afraid). I love all you guys but this is one dented tank in need of some repairwork :( to keep going or I'll just burnout and vanish in a heap of scrap metal which is where I am heading now.
 
i agree with with what your saying aves. i have the same feeling about the greens. the ppl that work their booties off to get all the chants all the mats all the gear dont get to go but the ones that have greens, that dont have chants, or anything else of the important things that are needed.

i believe that as redeemed we could do alot but we all need to be able to put in our part. now i have to say that i dont help probally as much as i should.

im personally getting really burnt out from trying to be on for all the raids and improving my gear, my dps in general, and not getting in to ppl that still have greens and wont help progression at all. Also i dont see of why how come we have so many ppl on all of a sudden cause of ZA y dont we go do a 25 man? that way alot of ppl can go and we can progress and experience higher end stuff.
 
Well, we can all find lots and lots to complain about. Best thing to do is just start contributing your fair share, and try not complaining so much. Thats whats burning me out!
 
Help the healers/tanks level!
Help the healers/tanks level!
Help the healers/tanks level!
Help the healers/tanks level!
Help the healers/tanks level!

End of rant.
 
Couple of additional things,

I want to reiterate I'm not directing this at anybody. If you feel I'm speaking to you (the general you) specifically, know that it has never taken one incedent to get me hot under the collar. I'm not pointing fingers because I don't want people to feel inadequate when this is not the case. People are not inadequate, but sometimes find ourselves not prepared or over our head and sinking when we ought not. I know our leaders hands are somewhat tied in pointing out weaknesses and thus pushing the group forward has to come from the membership level: Peer pressure, if you will.

I want Redeemed to push to where ever it will go, I want Redeemed to do it as God directs us, I want us to be casual about it, and I want us to be buckling down when buckling down when buckling down is called for.
 
As the raid leader I share in your frustrations Avesther and I understand them completely. It's been what like almost 2 months now of virtually no 25-man raiding. Did the 3 weeks of wiping on Lurker scare away the healers? lol. I don't know. Did we run into the "Major Domo Syndrome" again, people not wanting to come until after other people do the work to get past our sticking point? Who knows? Our raid progression with Kara, Gruuls, and VR was relatively quick while we weren't burnt out on the content yet. So that's new bosses dropping quickly to satisfy everyone. Then we hit a boss that isn't so quick to drop. Not all current raiders are from the school of 'ultimate-endurance-test-that-was-major-domo-wipage'. Is that the reason? Maybe.

You also have to consider this game has been out for almost 3 years now and many core healers have been playing for a long time. Perhaps they are getting bored of the game which is certainly feasible.

I went through the entire guild list and counted at least 22 healers who have either raided a lot in the past or expressed interest in raiding. And of the 22, about 6 or 7 are consistently online most days to raid. Make of that what you will. Do the other healers check the forums regularly? I don't know. The question is how do we motivate the other healers to be involved, or can we even motivate them if its a not a motivation issue? Maybe we need to recruit more healers then, but that would be kinda hard to do. Or maybe people like me and Treehouse have to respec to heal for the time being. Sorry Tree. :D

We'll get through this slump somehow.
 
Cliff's notes of this long winded post:

1.) I largely agree with Avesther's posts - after all, Snoopy is always right and I like to piggy back off of people's posts. Like Avesther's, this is aimed at "us", not "you", not "tree", not "pookie", but maybe a little (or a lot) at Nevi. So any references to "you" - please read it as "those participating in 25 man raids"

2.) People need to be more proactive in getting themselves geared up via crafted sets / heroics

3.) Bring consumables to raids

4.) Follow directions / read guides

5.) We all want to succeed and progress - we need to work together and more effectively to do so

6.) This is a great group of people that has the capability to complete these fights as long as we're sticking to the plan and doing what we need to

I'm frustated that when we finally get 25 people together to run a lurker not everybody is giving their 100%.
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More Reading = Less Wiping

This is arguably the most important point since we certainly have demonstrated the ability to down bosses with people that have less than the "required" amount of +dmg/heal/etc...

This is definitely a problem. IMO, we shouldn't just be relying on the RL to tell us to do - we should do homework before coming! There are plenty of great resources out there like bosskillers.com, mmo-champion, what have you that go over the fights in pretty decent detail, not to mention they have videos! Not only does it save us time, it gives us a MUCH higher chance of success. Our execution strategy may be a bit different, but there's nothing different about what you need to do during a spout (i.e. stay out of it!) or VR's arcane thing.

Also, when a RL points out that something you did was wrong...just don't make the same mistake next time. Getting 25 people to move together and meet new challenges is difficult, but if we're not fixing our mistakes, collectively and quickly, we simply won't progress - it's that simple. Also, don't hide a mistake. If you did something wrong, or something unexpected happen - say so - it may help someone else out as well. Hopefully the discussion will only have to happen once :)

Gear

This goes to one of my other posts where people should be coming in with crafted sets or better. In most cases (a very large case...) the crafted sets are better than T4 and in some...arguably better than T5. For healers, this is a different story...I understand it's very difficult to grind mats and I'm always willing to help farm primals (ask nubbob and various others that I've donated cloth or primals to in one form or another to hit 375 or make a set) to help create crafted sets. DPS classes should have no problems farming these things at all...either by pure grinding or using a gathering skill to make cash to buy them. On top of that, if a loan is needed from the bank - let us know and we'll work something out.

Coming without enchants or poor quality gems in new shiny items is again, pretty frustrating...again, more so for DPS classes. We have so many resources at your disposal for gems and enchants - ask or let us know if you need mats for things. Granted, we're not going to support putting +40 spell damage on a green weapon, but if it's something you're likely to have for a while...again, loans, grants or something to that effect can be considered. (read: legalese here stating that we reserve the right to decline due to insufficient supply, acts of God, acts of blizzard or any other considerations)

One thing I can speak to as of late is that I've pinged gchat numerous times for heroics with a handful of replys on one day. Heroics are a great way to up your gear through badges and/or drops - run them!

Consumables

Again - not tough, particularly for DPSers. Bring them, bring flasks or 2xElixirs. I tend to find tht flasks end up being cheaper in the end as of late, so have one of the Elixir spec'd alchs create them for you. Nevi is Elixir spec'd with the healing and damage flasks.

For DPS casters, you should generally have (unless you're a silly shammy like tree):

Basilisk (bring 20)
Flask of Pure Death (bring 1...maybe 2 max)
10-15 mana pots
5-10 health pots (maybe more for "self-heal" fights)
a stack of heavy netherweave bandages


Why didn't you do what you were supposed to do when Quantam gave a 5 second warning on spout, or in lieu of that warning, when your boss mod said it was 5 seconds to Lurkers spout?"
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Bossmods - learn them, love them, use them - they're required after all! For *some* fights, they're a little less relevant, e.g. Lurker's spout is pretty obvious. On the other hand, I want to know who's about to get blasted with VR's bolt so I can adjust. Please have them installed and enabled.

There are really two types of mistakes as I see them - completely random goofs, e.g. "whoops...sheeped the wrong guy" and repeating the same mistakes, e.g. the RL has gone over it several times and you have turned into tasty baked fish because of spout. The first, while they can be annoying, and in some cases can wipe the raid - are understandable, the latter can and must be avoided.

I tend to find that most of us do a good job of covering our blunders by making an appropriate corrective action. For example, if two mages sheep the same target (I mean, that never happens, right?), one will generally pick up the other and it will rectify itself very quickly.

I want to see what beyond the first few bosses in TK, I want to see whats beyond Lurker, I want to see more of ZA, I want to see Hyjal and the Black Temple.
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A lot of us do, myself certainly in that list.



Holy priests:
Mituba - Left the game
Icthus - MIA
Heavencent - MIA

Holy pallies:
Lukey - MIA
Chinatown - Left for greener pastures

Resto Druids:
Miriallia - MIA
Gilga - Low playtime player
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IMO...this is where we're hurting the most. At least with tanks, there are backup plans - e.g. I can play FJ instead of Nevi if necessary (and it's a gear appropriate fight), but healers are very hard to come by these days. I would also like to really point out Avesther and Oddbob for respecing from PvP and Shadow in particular.



I would love to spend more time getting Tarl geared up. Unfortunately, I'm one of those that still has green items. However, since my wife plays, I am obligated to play with her.
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Obviously you need to 2 box :)


Also i dont see of why how come we have so many ppl on all of a sudden cause of ZA y dont we go do a 25 man
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For one - why did those people come on? To see ZA. It's a bit funny how new content can seem to drag people out, but 25 mans don't these days.
 
I'll heal or do whatever I can for the the guild and I'm willing to step out of the way so that others can improve or simply because my connection is unstable.

Last night for example I kept disconnecting on Curator but things settled down and we killed him and once I dced on Nightbane and we managed to kill him w/ 5 ppl, I know how frustrating it is for the raiders though when I disconnect. I'll do whatever though for the guild, originally I planned for Theros being a tank but I have no problem switching Holy.

I told Goblit the other day Theros is going Holy and she said "I thought you hated healing" and I said I do but, whatever helps the guild I'll do even if it means dropping raiding so someone with a more stable connection can go.

I know I've frustrated Avesther many a nights in Arenas.

My time is limited for Fridays and early Saturday raiding but I'll help however you need.
 
I wish I had a solution but we may be contributing more to the problem. RL issues have sprung up and im not sure how much time we will be able to commit nightly and if we can even continue playing at all in the future:(
 
I start a peak assignment next week that runs through the end of the year. I fear it will have a major impact on my time online as it is an operation assignment with early hours and long days. So you may need to add me to the tank list with real life issues.
 
Makes me wish I'd started a priest or tank main instead of a rogue and hunter. To add a little bit to this thread in which everyone has a valid point, maybe we need to do some fun stuff to bring back a little levity and comoradity in our groups. Like a Friday night raid on STV as pirates where more than just 60's and 70's can participate. Dustwallow marsh with it's new content might be fun to raid in also,but that's a bit higher level and some might get left out.
 
I had a feeling someone was going to post something like this... and trust me Avesther... I feel your pain on the MIA healer front... after all...

I WOULD LIKE TO PLAY A SHADOW PRIEST.

But I want to see the guild progress and I think raiding is more fun than soloing. XD


 But as far as the healing situation goes, most of them have legitimate reasons for being MIA. And the others that don't have legitimate reasons are burned out I believe. Throwing ourselves at bosses and not getting much back in return such as loot or progression just sucks. It simply wears people out.

I think we need a new schedule and strategy for members. The new strategy may involve recruiting people, which is something we have not done recently. And I think it's something we can work on. If we are a raiding guild... lets start to act like it! (Thats not saying we have to be like the others.)

Those are my thoughts! :D
 
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nattyg said:
Gear

This goes to one of my other posts where people should be coming in with crafted sets or better. In most cases (a very large case...) the crafted sets are better than T4 and in some...arguably better than T5. For healers, this is a different story...I understand it's very difficult to grind mats and I'm always willing to help farm primals (ask nubbob and various others that I've donated cloth or primals to in one form or another to hit 375 or make a set) to help create crafted sets. DPS classes should have no problems farming these things at all...either by pure grinding or using a gathering skill to make cash to buy them. On top of that, if a loan is needed from the bank - let us know and we'll work something out.
Click to expand...

It's true, I wanted to quit farming long before he did. (I think there's something wrong with this one... may need to send him back to be looked at...)
 
I think theres an unwritten rule about too much serious posts, so...

shouldnt this thread be titled "I R Frustrated"
 
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