How to deal with islam?

Dixi_Lady said:
Yes, I do. But our disagreement here will be the term 'christian'. I am referring to a follower of Jesus, not just a church member. A follower of Jesus will have read his Word.
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How can a member of the church NOT be a follower of Jesus?

You have to be a follower of Jesus before you can profess to be a Christian, no?

Trust me, we've already gone round and round trying to define "Christian". Now the finger pointing starts and the claims of being a "true" Christian start coming out.

I am utterly flabbergasted at the flippant, vague remarks some of you are making about Islam and yet fail to see those same problems are evident in your own religion.

READ THIS CAREFULLY

Matthew 7
Judging Others
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
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Dixi_Lady said:
Yes, I do. But our disagreement here will be the term 'christian'. I am referring to a follower of Jesus, not just a church member. A follower of Jesus will have read his Word.
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Did the thief on the cross read His word Dixie?

Did Paul read His word before writing the epistles?
Or how about Peter?

No!

We serve a Living God!
Who is present even when there is no bible..

Or what will you do on the evil day?
 
I'm going to take some hits for my following thoughts...but I am ready...
first...my background- I am a middle aged white conservative christian middle class male that attends a pentecostal church (which seems to be one of the most judgemental and intollerant denominations I know, they get upset with me and my beliefs often, you'll see why.)


For us to say all Muslims are violent is stereotyping. If I'm not mistaken during WWII we locked up all Japenese Americans because of a stereotype. Many lost alot due to our "judging". We judge them without a trial, we condemned them because of their heritage. We all say this country was founded on Christianity, yet we kept blacks oppressed through 3/4 of this country's history. Saying all Muslims are violent is ridiculous. The man that owns the convenience store down the street from me knows I am a Christian, I know he is a Muslim. How do we treat each other? With respect. I treat him with the love of God, he treats me with the love of his God. Are most of the terrorist acts being done by Muslims at this point in time?, yes...probably. Does it need to stop? Absolutely. But I think not too many years ago...the KKK was "acting" on their beliefs of God. And wasn't Hitler doing the same. It is more than just the Crusades. Our biggest problem is by stereotyping Muslims, we as Christians, reinforce to the Muslim community that we are intollerant of other people. And to say they are going to hell, Is that our choice to make? no. Will they get another chance? I don't know. There is scripture that says each will be judge by the knowledge, or something like that.(my bible is at home so I can't look it up.). As Christians we need to stop judging and start loving. We tend to judge everyone, we judge the Catholics, we judge Pentecostals, we judge Baptists, we judge Jehovah Witness', we judge Methodists, we judge Lutherans, and so on and so on. We need to start worrying about our own walks and do things to the best of OUR knowledge, and quit judging and stereotyping especially.


ps. Is our war in the middle east justified? I believe it is...because these countries are mainly Muslim?no! Because they support terrorism, whether it is muslim, jew, christian, atheist, or whatever kind of radical group it is? yes.

also I just had to listen to a pentecostal man yesterday saying how ALL middle easterners don't pay taxes and send that money home to family. He said all...and wouldn't back down to some. That is what I am talking about. Not ALL, never ALL...how riduculous.
 
aka Ash said:
And wasn't Hitler doing the same.
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Actually, no. Hitler was performing an ethnic cleansing based on hated and prejudice. He declared only pure Germans as the master race and said all the rest deserved to die.

He blamed the Jews for the German Depression, said the gypsies were causing a degredation of society. He went to the poor, motivated them with hatred, and attacked those that didn't fit in with the common, poor German.
 
Durruck said:
Actually, no. Hitler was performing an ethnic cleansing based on hated and prejudice. He declared only pure Germans as the master race and said all the rest deserved to die.

He blamed the Jews for the German Depression, said the gypsies were causing a degredation of society. He went to the poor, motivated them with hatred, and attacked those that didn't fit in with the common, poor German.
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This is off topic maybe but...

Hitler's beliefs

It contains quotes from Mein Kampf, as well as other quotes, even from his henchmen.

Maybe this should be another thread...but maybe not.
 
This thread is for duscussing Islam. If you wish to discuss similarties between various religeons/dictators and whatever else, please start another thread.

Thank you.
 
the_great_eskimo_pie said:
This thread is for duscussing Islam. If you wish to discuss similarties between various religeons/dictators and whatever else, please start another thread.

Thank you.
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My appologies. I was stating that the way that some treat Islam was wrong(stereotyping). The same could have been said of Christians throughout the years, and how would it make us feel? I would venture to say it would make alot of Christians angry, just as much of Islam feels by being stereotyped and judged.
 
aka Ash said:
I'm going to take some hits for my following thoughts...but I am ready...
first...my background- I am a middle aged white conservative christian middle class male that attends a pentecostal church (which seems to be one of the most judgemental and intollerant denominations I know, they get upset with me and my beliefs often, you'll see why.)


For us to say all Muslims are violent is stereotyping. If I'm not mistaken during WWII we locked up all Japenese Americans because of a stereotype. Many lost alot due to our "judging". We judge them without a trial, we condemned them because of their heritage. We all say this country was founded on Christianity, yet we kept blacks oppressed through 3/4 of this country's history. Saying all Muslims are violent is ridiculous. The man that owns the convenience store down the street from me knows I am a Christian, I know he is a Muslim. How do we treat each other? With respect. I treat him with the love of God, he treats me with the love of his God. Are most of the terrorist acts being done by Muslims at this point in time?, yes...probably. Does it need to stop? Absolutely. But I think not too many years ago...the KKK was "acting" on their beliefs of God. And wasn't Hitler doing the same. It is more than just the Crusades. Our biggest problem is by stereotyping Muslims, we as Christians, reinforce to the Muslim community that we are intollerant of other people. And to say they are going to hell, Is that our choice to make? no. Will they get another chance? I don't know. There is scripture that says each will be judge by the knowledge, or something like that.(my bible is at home so I can't look it up.). As Christians we need to stop judging and start loving. We tend to judge everyone, we judge the Catholics, we judge Pentecostals, we judge Baptists, we judge Jehovah Witness', we judge Methodists, we judge Lutherans, and so on and so on. We need to start worrying about our own walks and do things to the best of OUR knowledge, and quit judging and stereotyping especially.


ps. Is our war in the middle east justified? I believe it is...because these countries are mainly Muslim?no! Because they support terrorism, whether it is muslim, jew, christian, atheist, or whatever kind of radical group it is? yes.

also I just had to listen to a pentecostal man yesterday saying how ALL middle easterners don't pay taxes and send that money home to family. He said all...and wouldn't back down to some. That is what I am talking about. Not ALL, never ALL...how riduculous.
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Praise Jesus!
Amen!

Funny how you should start off this post judging yourself tho! haha!
aka Ash said:
first...my background- I am a middle aged white conservative christian middle class male
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Your "background" is now Jesus! :)
1 Corinthians 3:23
and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.
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Judgment is set for a certain time in history, so that we will not become concieted ;)
Romans 2:16
This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
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The wrath of God is revealed to men on the evil day, till then, God's Mercy takes precidence in order that they too may be saved! :)
 
Not all Muslims are violent, but if one is a follower of the Muslim faith, I am very inclined to be wary of them as Islam is a violent religion.
 
Zeena said:
Funny how you should start off this post judging yourself tho! haha!
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I don't find anything funny about that at all.

Doesn't the Bible say to first remove the plank in your own eye before attempting to remove the speck in your brother's?

Kudos to Ash for the fantastic post!
 
Dark Virtue said:
I don't find anything funny about that at all.
Doesn't the Bible say to first remove the plank in your own eye before attempting to remove the speck in your brother's?
Kudos to Ash for the fantastic post!
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Welll, I'm sorry you have judged me as having a plank in my eye!-lol

God says I'm PERFECT, ya hear that.. PURR-FECT! :D
Matthew 5:48
48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Matthew 19:21
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Hebrews 10:14
14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
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I am in the process of BEing sanctified..Therefore I AM perfect..God has not left me alone, He is neigh to me for I draw my life from Him!
Does this mean I do everything perfectly..No!
But it does mean that I myself am beyond your judgement..
For God judges me as perfect in Christ Jesus my Lord :D

I meant no offense by the statement I made to Ash, for he is a dearly bought brother in my Lord :D

He can speak for himself if he took offense DV..
 
I don't think anyone claimed you were being offensive Zeena.

Instead of background I should have said background info.

Jesus isn't my background, he is not who I was, he is who I am.

I am not perfect, but hope to be one day, and was commanded to strive towards that end. I sin in one way or another, to say differently is a lie. But I ask for forgiveness daily, such as David did. Such as Paul did.

My goal is not to be saved, but to make it to heaven. :D
 
Dark Virtue said:
I'm sure I could dig up plenty of books from exChristians that lay out a whole host of problems with Christianity.

Dan Barker's, "Losing Faith in Faith" comes to mind.

What you should be doing is looking at objective literature WITHIN Islam. Of course, that only matters if you're interested in an objective, unbiased discourse on the subject.
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I'm sure I could dig up plenty of books from exAtheists that lay out a whole host of problems with Atheism.

Josh McDowell's "More Than A Carpenter" comes to mind.

Of course, that just proves your point-- EVERYONE who has an emotional interest in a subject has a bias. And, pretty much everyone interested in religion at all is going to have emotions about certain religions.

Back on topic: What kind of Islam are we talking about here? Sunni, Shi'a, Wahabi, or some other variant I can't think of off the top of my head?
 
aka Ash said:
Jesus isn't my background, he is not who I was, he is who I am.
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That's right! :D

And I also like what Wild Bill said about bais's..I conduct research at my work..And everyone and thier brothers uncle has a bais towards topics that matter to them personally :)
 
Zeena, you are either taking verses out of context or you honestly don't understand what they are saying.

Either way, you are simply wrong.

Matthew 5:48
48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
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This verse does NOT say you are perfect. This verse is instructing you to BE perfect, to achieve a state of perfect, like God. It's a mandate, not a statement.

Here are some other translations:

Matthew 5:48 (The Message)
48"In a word, what I'm saying is, Grow up. You're kingdom subjects. Now live like it. Live out your God-created identity. Live generously and graciously toward others, the way God lives toward you."

Matthew 5:48 (Amplified Bible)
48You, therefore, must be perfect [growing into complete maturity of godliness in mind and character, having reached the proper height of virtue and integrity], as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 5:48 (English Standard Version)
48You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 5:48 (Worldwide English (New Testament))
48You must be good in every way, as your Father in heaven is good in every way.'

Matthew 19:21
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
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This is just plain taken out of context. This is in regards to a specific person, in a specific case.

If you are claiming yourself to be perfect, as Jesus commanded, why haven't you sold all that you have?
 
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