How to deal with islam?

[Zeena]

Well, first off..

Jesus didn't die for angels, he died for mankind..

Second, they are forgiven because of His atoning sacrifice!
God even hears thier prayers and is close to them because of His great Love!
He's just not Living IN them..

So they do not know for sure the greatest Love of all time came to give His Life TO them!
There's only one way they will see Him now that He's risen..
And that's in us!

Who will shed abroad the Love of God so richly poured out in our hearts this day? If not the Christians who have recieved this very Love!

Lets not be men-haters..
But rather, in Love, walk in Love for them! And thus Glorify the Lord!

As for how to deal with Islam, God mentions many ways in which HE deals with man..

Who are we to interfere..

 

[Dixi_Lady]

Well, first off..

Second, they are forgiven because of His atoning sacrifice!
God even hears thier prayers and is close to them because of His great Love!
He's just not Living IN them..
.

Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

I have to disagree with your statement. He died for their sins, yes, but they are not forgiven until they repent.
They are praying to the moon god as one person pointed out earlier in this thread. Another name for the moon god would be satan, the father of lies.

I don't think anyone here is debating the fact that we should show God's love to individuals and to witness to them, but Christians should be informed and united against Islam the 'religion' (and I use that word loosely)

It would benefit everyone to read books (there are many) written by former Muslims and let them explain what they were taught. They can tell you that the teachings we have discussed were not random and taken out of context.

I am curious why there is a self proclaimed aethist in a Christian forum? I presume just here to debate constantly? I hope that the younger members are not influenced by this. I don't believe in setting out a tender young plant in the elements until it is ready to withstand.
If I wanted apologetics, I would visit those types of chat rooms and forums.

 

[Zeena]

Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

I have to disagree with your statement. He died for their sins, yes, but they are not forgiven until they repent.
They are praying to the moon god as one person pointed out earlier in this thread. Another name for the moon god would be satan, the father of lies.

I don't think anyone here is debating the fact that we should show God's love to individuals and to witness to them, but Christians should be informed and united against Islam the 'religion' (and I use that word loosely)

It would benefit everyone to read books (there are many) written by former Muslims and let them explain what they were taught. They can tell you that the teachings we have discussed were not random and taken out of context.

I am curious why there is a self proclaimed aethist in a Christian forum? I presume just here to debate constantly? I hope that the younger members are not influenced by this. I don't believe in setting out a tender young plant in the elements until it is ready to withstand.
If I wanted apologetics, I would visit those types of chat rooms and forums.

I know what the scriptures say!

But a BETTER promise has been given in Christ Jesus!

 

[Genesis1315]

I am curious why there is a self proclaimed aethist in a Christian forum? I presume just here to debate constantly? I hope that the younger members are not influenced by this. I don't believe in setting out a tender young plant in the elements until it is ready to withstand.
If I wanted apologetics, I would visit those types of chat rooms and forums.

Considerably Off Topic

1. Questions as this are better addressed via PM with the moderators.
2. While the CGA forums are Christian forums, membership is not dependant upon faith in God through Jesus Christ
3. We, as Christians, should be able to share and defend the faith at any point. We have many roles, one of which is apologetics.

And now, back on topic...

Islam

Gen

 

[Dark Virtue]

What do you mean don't judge? Since we are addressing Islam as a whole we should judge. It's wrong. It's a religion that is totally against what the Bible says.

To jump off of what Dixi said, when we witness we should do it with love but don't suger-coat anything!!

How about this one...those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones?

If you judge one religion against another, it will always be "wrong" because you're not looking at it objectively.

If you're going to condemn other religions, don't gripe when other religions condemn you. It's just that simple.

 

[Dark Virtue]

It would benefit everyone to read books (there are many) written by former Muslims and let them explain what they were taught. They can tell you that the teachings we have discussed were not random and taken out of context.

I'm sure I could dig up plenty of books from exChristians that lay out a whole host of problems with Christianity.

Dan Barker's, "Losing Faith in Faith" comes to mind.

What you should be doing is looking at objective literature WITHIN Islam. Of course, that only matters if you're interested in an objective, unbiased discourse on the subject.

 

[Dixi_Lady]

If you're going to condemn other religions, don't gripe when other religions condemn you. It's just that simple.

I don't mind if they condemn me, I just don't want them trying to kill and distroy me and everyone around me. I can only think of one current religion that teaches to kill the unbeliever.

 

[tjguitarz]

Jesus didn't die for angels, he died for mankind..

My girlfriend is an angel

If you're going to condemn other religions, don't gripe when other religions condemn you.

The idea of this thread shouldn't be to condemn, but rather to investigate. In the words of Yoda...

Condemnation leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

Therefore, I suggest we switch from talking about how Islam is wrong, evil, and un-Christian (which the bible tells us is true, but is not worth arguing over) to speaking on friendlier terms. This thread, in my honest opinion, was a bad idea from the start. We as Christians should be loving on everyone we can, not saying anything that could pick a fight.

Here are some ways I see that we can steer this conversation in a positive direction.

1. Compare Islam and Christianity - similarities and differences
2. Analyize the impact of each on society and in history
3. What would Jesus do? -- about Islam, or speaking to a follower.
4. What could a Christian say that would pick at their brains, and make them ponder the switch?

Just pulled those off the top of my head. If you'd rather stick to the course of this thread, by all means go ahead. I'm sure it'll be locked soon.

 

[Dark Virtue]

I don't mind if they condemn me, I just don't want them trying to kill and distroy me and everyone around me. I can only think of one current religion that teaches to kill the unbeliever.

Today maybe, but I'm not even willing to go that far. As I have stated, the militant sect of Islam is a small minority.

History has plenty examples of Christians killing the unbeliever, does it not?

Are you willing to claim that those Christians spoke for the entirety of the religion? If not, then why are you condemning other religions according to the actions of the minority? Let's not be hypocritical.

 

[tjguitarz]

Today maybe, but I'm not even willing to go that far. As I have stated, the militant sect of Islam is a small minority.

History has plenty examples of Christians killing the unbeliever, does it not?

Are you willing to claim that those Christians spoke for the entirety of the religion? If not, then why are you condemning other religions according to the actions of the minority? Let's not be hypocritical.

I am going to go blow up so-and-so building in the name of Bruce Willis. Is it his fault? No. Does it reflect the kind of person he is? Probably not. Am I acting on my own ideas and simply trying to shift the blame elsewhere? Absolutely.

 

[Dixi_Lady]

As I have stated, the militant sect of Islam is a small minority.

History has plenty examples of Christians killing the unbeliever, does it not?

Are you willing to claim that those Christians spoke for the entirety of the religion? If not, then why are you condemning other religions according to the actions of the minority? Let's not be hypocritical.

I can see that you did not read my earlier post

"Christianity does not teach to kill and distroy those who are not Christians. Islam does teach that.
You might say 'the crusades'?
Never judge a religion on it's followers but on its Holy book. I cannot find in my holy book where the Crusades were ordered, but I have seen in the koran where killing non muslims is ordered as standard procedure."

I never judge by the followers because you have nuts in all of them, I judge by the written instructions given by the leader or diety

 

[Dark Virtue]

I am going to go blow up so-and-so building in the name of Bruce Willis. Is it his fault? No. Does it reflect the kind of person he is? Probably not. Am I acting on my own ideas and simply trying to shift the blame elsewhere? Absolutely.

Thanks for underscoring my point

What you are saying is that you shouldn't condemn all of Christianity for the small minority extremists that take things out of context. Correct?

That is the exact same thing you should be saying about Islam.

 

[Dark Virtue]

I can see that you did not read my earlier post

"Christianity does not teach to kill and distroy those who are not Christians. Islam does teach that.
You might say 'the crusades'?
Never judge a religion on it's followers but on its Holy book. I cannot find in my holy book where the Crusades were ordered, but I have seen in the koran where killing non muslims is ordered as standard procedure."

I never judge by the followers because you have nuts in all of them, I judge by the written instructions given by the leader or diety

I see you didn't read my earlier posts

Those minority followers of Islam that I equate to minority followers of Christianity share at least one thing in common: they twisted a holy book to suit their own needs.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that your study of the Koran is nowhere near equal to your study of the Bible. Please, correct me if I'm wrong. My point here is that if Christians can't agree on what the Bible says, then how are you in a position of authority to understand or decree what the Koran states? I'm also willing to bet that if you have read and studied the Koran, it was after you became a Christian. Now, again, I may be wrong, but these are assumptions based on the majority of Christians.

The bottom line is that a subjective reading of the Koran does not equate to an objective understanding of the book. If the majority of followers of the Koran state that murder of infidels is wrong, then why are you only listening to the minority?

No one has yet to answer my challenge either. If the Koran explicitly states that followers of Islam are to wage a jihad against all infidels and smite them where they stand, then why aren't there 1.3 billion people waging a holy war?

 

[tjguitarz]

Thanks for underscoring my point

What you are saying is that you shouldn't condemn all of Christianity for the small minority extremists that take things out of context. Correct?

That is the exact same thing you should be saying about Islam.

Exactly. It doesnt seem right to condemn a large group of people for an act certain individuals do supposedly for that name.

However, one issue my dad brought up to me was that if the Islamic religion doesn't support any of the violent attacks, why haven't US muslims spoken out against those acts? The Christian church spoke out against the 'we're those people that go to US soldier funerals and cheer their death because the war in Iraq is wrong' miscreants. What's the next logical assumption? That all muslims support beheading of civilians, suicide bombings, burnings of Christian churches, and the murders of Catholic priests in Turkey?

 

[Dixi_Lady]

No one has yet to answer my challenge either. If the Koran explicitly states that followers of Islam are to wage a jihad against all infidels and smite them where they stand, then why aren't there 1.3 billion people waging a holy war?

The majority of Muslims have never read the Koran. I guess we should be thankful for that?

I tell Muslims they should read their book and obey it or read it and leave Islam if they don't agree.

 

[Zeena]

Women aren't allowed to read it from what I've heard..
At least, in the country of it's origin..
Which is Saudi Arabia..

 

[Dark Virtue]

The majority of Muslims have never read the Koran. I guess we should be thankful for that?

I tell Muslims they should read their book and obey it or read it and leave Islam if they don't agree.

LOL

And you thinkt he majority of Christians have read the bible, much less understand it???

POT. KETTLE. BLACK.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Exactly. It doesnt seem right to condemn a large group of people for an act certain individuals do supposedly for that name.

However, one issue my dad brought up to me was that if the Islamic religion doesn't support any of the violent attacks, why haven't US muslims spoken out against those acts? The Christian church spoke out against the 'we're those people that go to US soldier funerals and cheer their death because the war in Iraq is wrong' miscreants. What's the next logical assumption? That all muslims support beheading of civilians, suicide bombings, burnings of Christian churches, and the murders of Catholic priests in Turkey?

Ah, but they DO!

The problem is they don't have as big of a platform as Christians do.

I did a quick google search and found plenty of American Muslim sites and organizations that speak out against the violence abroad.

Now...did you just accept your dad's word for it, or did you actually do a little research and see if he was right? I challenge you to search for yourself, I think you'll be surprised by what you find.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Women aren't allowed to read it from what I've heard..
At least, in the country of it's origin..
Which is Saudi Arabia..

Zeena, you do realize that there was a time when women were not only allowed not to read the Bible, but not read PERIOD, right?

 

[Dixi_Lady]

LOL

And you thinkt he majority of Christians have read the bible, much less understand it???

POT. KETTLE. BLACK.

Yes, I do. But our disagreement here will be the term 'christian'. I am referring to a follower of Jesus, not just a church member. A follower of Jesus will have read his Word.