Homosexuality

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] ]I wouldnt mind welcoming them into the church so they can learn what God has to say about their lifestyle

This is the same God that has no qualms about murdering babies and children?

This is the same God condones slavery?

This is the same God that killed a man for not impregnating his brother's wife?

 

[ByblosHex]

He is against murder.
He is against the modern definition of slavery.
And I dunno what you are talking about in that last one.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] (Mr.Bill @ Oct. 27 2004,12:47)]

Quote[/b] (Dark Virtue @ Oct. 27 2004,12:22)]I'm not sure if this has been asked yet, but if not, it needs to be.

What is the definition of marriage? What is its purpose?

What is the definition of a family? What is its purpose?

Alright, let's have a go at this then...

Marriage has been traditionally defined as the bond between a man and a woman. I believe it's purpose is symbolism of the strength of the love between the two people. I do not believe it is to raise children, because not all married couples have children, and they are still married.

A family, in this context, would be at least one child and at least one parent. It's purpose is to love and support each other, especially the child, who needs to be raised and prepared for the rest of his or her life.

I believe that homosexuals should be able to marry, because the love that a typical homosexual couple have for each other is identical to the typical married couple. To say that they should not becuase it would be unsanctifying marriage in general is ridiculous.

I believe that homosexuals should be able to adopt children, as there is not significant evidence against their ability to raise children being equal to that of heterosexuals. In many cases they have higher ability.

I think it's that TRADITIONAL view of marriage that some feel is being threatened that is causing so many problems.

(I thought homosexual couples COULD adopt children)

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] (ByblosHex @ Oct. 27 2004,12:55)]

Quote[/b] ]He is against murder.

Yet He orders it quite a bit in the OT

Quote[/b] ]He is against the modern definition of slavery.

Where is that distinction drawn in the bible?

Quote[/b] ]And I dunno what you are talking about in that last one.

Genesis 38

In other words, God is the LAST being that has a right to declare moral superiority.

 

[ByblosHex]

I remember angels doing it but not any humans....

Well he condoned slavery way back then, and back then slavery was completely different then it is today.

Well of course. God decides what is right and what is wrong.

 

[Mr.Bill]

Yes, the traditional definition of marriage is being changed.  But is that in itself a good enough reason to dissallow homosexual marriages?  Let's look at our history a bit.  In the 18th century it was illegal for blacks and whites to marry each other.  It was also basically unheard of for a woman to divorce her husband, whereas now 50% of all marriages end in divorce.  People got married much younger than now as well, and now it is generally frowned upon for two 18 year olds to get married, whereas 100 years ago this was customary.  

The definition of marriage has been changed many times, and there hasn't been much of a ruckus.  I think what people are really upset about is the religious implications.  Which, of course, does not coincide with the way our country functions.

Homosexuals can adopt children in some states, but I think in most it is still illegal.

 

[ByblosHex]

well... God invented marriage and he never had any Racial rules on it and he surely will never allow it to change from "A man and a Woman for life" That has how it has always been and how it always be, any sexual relations outside of that Bond is sin.

And that whole 18 years thing is good in its own way.. but kinda lame in others...

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] (ByblosHex @ Oct. 27 2004,1:00)]

Quote[/b] ]I remember angels doing it but not any humans....

Of course not, because you haven't read the Bible.

Quote[/b] ]Well he condoned slavery way back then, and back then slavery was completely different then it is today.

How so?

Quote[/b] ]Well of course. God decides what is right and what is wrong.

You missed the point, since God has shown a lack of morality, then He can not ordain what is moral.

 

[Marcylene]

Adoption in and of itself is fine. That earlier comment about b children is bugging me. Children are to be loved! God said that we are adopted and can call Him Abba Father!

Isn't the Biblical tradition of marriage man and woman? Created for each other, man the head...picture of Heaven!

 

[ByblosHex]

Well come on who has read and remembers every verse of the bible at 17 years old!

Because back then slavery was kind of like being a servant or a worker, they gave you food and shelter for your labor....

God hasnt shown lack of moraility, we just dont understand it perfectly.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] (Mr.Bill @ Oct. 27 2004,1:01)]

I would say it's more a MORAL implication than a RELIGIOUS one.

Quote[/b] ]In the 18th century it was illegal for blacks and whites to marry each other. It was also basically unheard of for a woman to divorce her husband, whereas now 50% of all marriages end in divorce.

I think that had more to do with religious reasons than moral. I think this situation is a bit different, as there isn't a solid foundation to rest change on.

[quotePeople got married much younger than now as well, and now it is generally frowned upon for two 18 year olds to get married, whereas 100 years ago this was customary. [/quote]

That isn't a moral or religious reason, it had to do with life expenctancy being much shorter than it is now.

 

[PapaToad]

Gay marrige
I am against it for Bibical reasons
If I was not a bible believeing christen I would not care one bit

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] (ByblosHex @ Oct. 27 2004,1:07)]

Quote[/b] ]Well come on who has read and remembers every verse of the bible at 17 years old!

I had. And if you haven't, then you REALLY have no place holding the kind of views that you do without understanding the entire Bible. That's like saying you understand Physics after reading only the first chapter of a textbook.

Quote[/b] ]Because back then slavery was kind of like being a servant or a worker, they gave you food and shelter for your labor....

That's called indentured servitude. That isn't the only form of slavery, nor is it the kind that is described as being in the Bible.

Quote[/b] ]God hasnt shown lack of moraility, we just dont understand it perfectly.

Again, you're talking without having all the facts.

Try looking at this page: LINK

 

[Mr.Bill]

Quote[/b] (Dark Virtue @ Oct. 27 2004,1:09)]

Quote[/b] (Mr.Bill @ Oct. 27 2004,1:01)]

I would say it's more a MORAL implication than a RELIGIOUS one.

Quote[/b] ]In the 18th century it was illegal for blacks and whites to marry each other.  It was also basically unheard of for a woman to divorce her husband, whereas now 50% of all marriages end in divorce.

I think that had more to do with religious reasons than moral.  I think this situation is a bit different, as there isn't a solid foundation to rest change on.

[quotePeople got married much younger than now as well, and now it is generally frowned upon for two 18 year olds to get married, whereas 100 years ago this was customary.  

That isn't a moral or religious reason, it had to do with life expenctancy being much shorter than it is now.[/QUOTE]
Moral? Perhaps in a way, but the morallity in quesiton is based upon religion. Got to go to the source to fully understand the issue. That's always been my strategy.

Quote[/b] ]I think that had more to do with religious reasons than moral. I think this situation is a bit different, as there isn't a solid foundation to rest change on.

The foundation has always been there: There have always been homosexuals. I think the reason this issue has never come up in the past is because only now is there sufficient freedom for homosexuals to express their feelings without fear of soicial chastisement. But even today there is much homosexual discrimination, as I'm sure you know.

 

[Mr.Bill]

Quote[/b] (MontrezAnthony @ Oct. 27 2004,1:12)]Gay marrige
I am against it for Bibical reasons
If I was not a bible believeing christen I would not care one bit

Do you believe it is right to legislate against gay marriage purely on religious reasons then?

 

[Marcylene]

Donald Morgan? Oh! D.V.! Where do you get these guys? They are crawling out from under the very foundation!

 

[PapaToad]

Quote[/b] (Mr.Bill @ Oct. 27 2004,1:16)]

Quote[/b] (MontrezAnthony @ Oct. 27 2004,1:12)]Gay marrige
I am against it for Bibical reasons
If I was not a bible believeing christen I would not care one bit

Do you believe it is right to legislate against gay marriage purely on religious reasons then?

Yes

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] (Marcylene @ Oct. 27 2004,1:18)]Donald Morgan? Oh! D.V.! Where do you get these guys? They are crawling out from under the very foundation!

From the same place you get guys like Spurgeon

 

[PapaToad]

Quote[/b] (Jim @ Oct. 26 2004,3:26)]For fear of invoking the wrath of a moderator, I posted this here to be safe.

My questions is more in line with the SOCIAL reasons for opposing homosexual marriages and such like, not the religious side, since I am already aware of the religious reasons for opposing it.

A few mentioned outside this forum, such as opposition to homosexual adoption, is that it is harmful to the child (emotionally, I presume) to grow up without a male/female role model.

This is a point I am very concerned with.

Very much I would like to know what reasons you believe homosexuals should be limited in these areas.

I understand this can be a sensitive topic, so I really ask you to keep your posts civil and to-the-point.

I think the forum needs a little guidance back to the topic

 

[LionOfJudah]

Byblos as far as we are going to be judged by the OT law, that is totally wrong, we will be judged whether or not we have accepted Christ. SHOW me where it says we shall be judge by the OT law. IF you have such strong convictions then you can back them up scripturally.

as far as reading the Bible, you said you use to read it everyday in school, its only about 1600(study Bibles) pages at the longest and most are about 1200 pages If you break that down to even 6 pages a day you can read the entire Bible in less than a year.


*Slavery* another topic, but God never codemns it in the OT, and in the NT it is not abolished, the way a master treats his slaves though is the main focus. Never in the NT is a slave owner told to free his slaves, nor are the slaves ever told to revolt or run away for freedom.