Dark Virtue
New Member
Could you be a bit more specific in this question? It's a bit open ended.[b said:
Does it matter what is said here?
- Thread starter LionOfJudah
- Start date
[b said:
[b said:
Answered prayers:
One Christmas, several years ago, my mom worked as a nurse at a nearby hospital. She was recquired by schedule to work that morning. My family and I prayed that she could spend Christmas with us. Several minutes later her boss called, asking her if she wanted to take the day off.
I used to communicate with a member of the message board "BZPower.com" who went by the screen name of "White Seiger". He was not a christian, and it was made obvious to me by communication between me and him that he had problems in his life (the specifics of which I am still not sure of). I prayed daily for him for several months. Later on I noticed his screen name elsewhere. His signature quoted a verse from the book of John. I sent him a private message, asking him if he was a christian, and he said that he indeed was.
A man I met at my local flea market by the name of Naibe (pronounced: Nai-eeb) was about to undergo eye surgery, as his vision was failing. My family and I prayed for him, asking that the Lord would see to it that the surgery would be successful. The next time we saw him his vision was crystal clear.
As for unanswered prayers, I can name a few. A friend of my family recently lost his wife. She divorced him. We prayed that she would come back, and she did, temporarily, only to leave again.
My grandfather is, to put it mildly, an immoral person. We have been praying for him for a very long time now, but have seen no change of heart.
With these two examples, however, the fact remains: How can you help someone who chooses to make bad decisions?
[b said:
[b said:
Can individuals not work mutually for the cause of immorality?
Dark Virtue
New Member
[b said:
Absolutely!
But the very act of those individuals working together negates anarchy.
Thank you for sharing your prayers, I know they can be personal.
The problem I have with prayer and faith is what the Bible says about them. Being able to move mountains and to receive whatever you ask for. There is no hidden text there, the verses are quite clear.
[b said:
Do you abide in the Lord?
[b said:
Anarchy has nothing to do with the absense of cooperation; it has to do with the absense of leadership. (The suffix "a" or "an" meaning "no" or "without" and "archy" meaning "leader"). In the case of subjective morality, the evil of yesterday can soon become the good of today, and vice versa. Because of this, there is no absolute; no leadership, therefore deeming the establishment as anarchy.
Dark Virtue
New Member
[b said:
[b said:
No, I do not. But then again, I don't pray and ask God for things either.
Was there a time I did, yes, but no longer, and not for a while.
[b said:
Are you referring to Anarchy as a form of government or as a form of morality? They are a bit different.
As far as subjective morality goes, look at the US government. At one point in time, blacks and women had little to no rights. That was a MORAL judgement. Times changed and the evil of yesterday becomes the good of today, blacks and women now have rights and are treated as equals. Does that mean we live under a system of anarchy? Of course not, there is still leadership, there is just no moral absolute. It's fluid, flexible. It allows for change.
I refer to anarchy as an establishment that makes up what is right and wrong as they go. Is prejudice towards blacks and women right today? No.[b said:
Was prejudice towards blacks and women right one hundred years ago? No. It was always wrong, it merely took our culture that long to abide by it. Were the human sacrifice rituals done by the South American Mayan's hundreds of years ago right? No. Was the Nazi idealism created by Adolf Hitler right? No. These things were always wrong. But if what is always right or wrong were to switch places, which happens to be a completely plausible occurance in the mindset of subjective morality, then society itself would fall apart. Subjective morality is anarchy. To say that morality is nothing more than what we choose to make of it is to undermine the very significance of human life.
Dark Virtue
New Member
[b said:
That is the ESSENCE of human life. To learn from our mistakes and to come together as a people to make ourselves better.
[b said:
Do you then believe that we are living under a state of anarchy? The United States was based upon subjective morality.
Since you have nothing but disdain for subjective morality, I will assume that you believe in the objective variety.
And this morality comes from...? God? The Bible?
The same God that condoned slavery?
That would mean that, according to the objective morality of the Bible (and since God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow) that YOU would condone slavery as well. Correct?
[b said:
Our mistakes were ultimately wrong to begin with! Right and wrong is absolute; we are not.
[b said:
[b said:
The United States was built upon the belief that all men posessed equal rights granted to them by God. I believe that anarchy is on the rise in America.
Both.[b said:
The God that sanctioned slavery.[b said:
[b said:
I will condone whatever God chooses to sanction.[b said:
[b said:
Dark Virtue
New Member
Sanction: to give effective or authoritative approval or consent to
God APPROVES and CONSENTS to slavery.
How does a God consisting of ultimate Love and Compassion approve of slavery?
How does one learn, if not by mistakes? Our own and by others. If right and wrong are absolutes, what are they? Who deems them?
EH? I suggest you look at history with a subjective eye.
Give this a read: The Christian Nation Myth, by Farrell Till
The Treaty of Tripoli, written during the administration of President George Washington, signed by President John Adams and unanimously approved by the Senate in 1797, stated, "The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." Six years later James Madison wrote, "The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries."
I think you need to brush up on your history.
God APPROVES and CONSENTS to slavery.
How does a God consisting of ultimate Love and Compassion approve of slavery?
[b said:
How does one learn, if not by mistakes? Our own and by others. If right and wrong are absolutes, what are they? Who deems them?
[b said:
EH? I suggest you look at history with a subjective eye.
Give this a read: The Christian Nation Myth, by Farrell Till
The Treaty of Tripoli, written during the administration of President George Washington, signed by President John Adams and unanimously approved by the Senate in 1797, stated, "The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." Six years later James Madison wrote, "The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries."
I think you need to brush up on your history.
Dark Virtue
New Member
Exactly my point Mr. Bill.
But I think our friend Anayo believes differently.
But I think our friend Anayo believes differently.
Dark Virtue
New Member
And that, my friend, is precisely your problem.[b said:
Byblos, you are being hypocritical.
You expect non-theists to lay aside everything they believe in and believe in what you do.
Yet you are not willing to do the same.
Why then, with your attitude, should anyone put their own beliefs aside if you won't award them the same respect.
If what you say is true, and you are here to convert other people, you are doing an abysmal job.
You simply CAN'T with that attitude, it's not fair.
Dark Virtue
New Member
I'm going to make that into a bumper sticker
Rithkil
New Member
Exactly, he said he will not be swayed by anything you say to him. He never implied that he is trying to convert others while he himself is being stubborn. And how is that statement hypocritical? I agree.
Dark Virtue
New Member
Ok, let me break this down.
Byblos has his theistic beliefs.
Nontheists have their beliefs.
Byblos would like nontheists to put their beliefs aside and be theistic.
Byblos refuses to put his beliefs aside and listen to nontheistic thought.
Therefore, Byblos is asking a nontheist to do something that he, himself, is not willing to do. Thus, hypocrisy.
Byblos has stated in another thread that he believes his job is to show others God's way, thus, converting them.
Byblos has his theistic beliefs.
Nontheists have their beliefs.
Byblos would like nontheists to put their beliefs aside and be theistic.
Byblos refuses to put his beliefs aside and listen to nontheistic thought.
Therefore, Byblos is asking a nontheist to do something that he, himself, is not willing to do. Thus, hypocrisy.
Byblos has stated in another thread that he believes his job is to show others God's way, thus, converting them.
Rithkil
New Member
That's all Christians jobs. To evangelise. Tell people the truth. Byblos however is not just trying to convert people on this topic. He is saying no matter what people say, he will not change his position between him and God.
Dark Virtue
New Member
That is exactly what I just said Rithkil.[b said:
He refuses to change his point of view, yet he is asking nontheists to change theirs.
How is that fair?