I am frustrated.

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darksorrow said:
entire ssc/tk except vashj and kaelthas should be expected to be downed without an explanation prior to the attempt simply because every person in the raid should already know exactly what the boss does without even seeing what the boss actually looks like in game.
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I disagree here. Every fight, no matter the difficulty needs to be explained in full detail, unless the boss is on farm (Karazhan for example... no bosses in there deserve an explanation, and when we stop to explain.. it irks me a little bit.) The explanation time is crucial because thats when people ask questions and get fine details hammered out.

This is usually how I see new boss fights in a common progression guild.

Step 1: Raid Leader (RL) explains fight to raiders who already know the general gist of the boss.

Step 2: Raiders ask questions to hammer out fine details.

Step 3: First attempt is made, expectations of downing the boss are absurd simply because this is a time to put what you've learned into action.

Step 4: Second attempt is made, expectations of downing boss are higher, but still irrational.

Step 5: In attempts, 3 and on, raiders should now know what to do and where/when to do what their class needs to do, so expectations of downing the boss are now reasonable.


It would be dumb not to explain boss fights simply because not all raiders are psychic. :D
 
Gee, I guess I'm going to have to rethink how far I want to go with Redeemed and WoW. Just reading the last several posts makes my brain hurt. This is not supposed to be a second job for me. Yes, I'll check out gear, but to know the ratio's etc of stuff, I'll never get that. I want to have fun with this, not hurt my brain and for me it takes more than 5-10 minutes looking up gear etc,not to mention ferretting through all the spams on the forums to get to the interesting stuff to read.

Seriously, this post has really made me think of quiting or finding a new guild.
 
Raiding is not for the faint of heart. The Redeemed guild should not have to be about sole raiding , nor did I ever think it was! Now forgive me because I have not been around of late, but I remember so much and most all of it good. Just like any game or hobby, some will play as a game; something to do to full the hours, and some will attack it with the fever and tenacity of a driven madmen looking for El Dorado.

Both are acceptable and good, both are necessary for balance, but neither is the reason we joined a Christian guild the caliber of Redeemed. We joined Redeemed because we wanted to Game within the Body Of Christ and never forget through that focus, the game , the loot, the uberness, we wanted to meet all those challenges with like minded people. People like ourselves, and the lost and wayward, like me 

You of Redeemed have done well, Our Guild like any church, any organization has always had people come and go, move on and outward as God (<- LOL 1st time I capitalized this word in three years ) sees fit to take them. Even I though all my challenges and adventurous in life, come back here when I really do not know where I should belong. But Yet I am comfortable here. Always have been. But I digress

My 2 cents is this, if your gonna raid with the hardcore, then raid and be ready for the tenacity that the dedication of folks who want and can taste the goal. and those who are there every day and making it happen. These are our hard charges, they want to get things done and do it right.

Does that mean that silly folks like me who raid now and then but are content to gather mats and share them, should QUIT! Heavens no, I do not have to be hardcore. It makes me no less of a player. Everyone has worth, everyone can bring something to the table.

And maybe I am the type that likes 50 level 15 characters, that’s ok too because who better to get to all the hotspots than a n00b lover? least till level 25 :p
My point is no one is saying anyone is or is not a good/bad player, just different levels of dedication to the game in different areas

All Cory was asking was when he raids with a team that team be ready to accomplish the mission at hand, with the same or similar drive as he has. Now this may not be for everyone, but with the people Redeemed has, if that is two hardcore maybe it’s possible to have a little less hardcore raid. I do not know if this is possible, but aren’t all things?

So I do not think this is a reason to quit, or get bent, maybe a chance to vent frustrations and develop a better way of accomplishing the goals at hand.

As I said no reason to be bent, just my 2 cents.
 
First off, Papa, an excellent post! I truly felt that someone else shared the same view as myself on this matter. (cept the whole being a noob thing..)

This is a very interesting time for Redeemed, with pangs of growth and change affecting everyone. Redeemed has seen alot of change from its roots, and has held on stronger through each twist and turn. Personally, Redeemed helped me to grow in my own life...giving me the opportunity to serve, minister the Word, meet great people and play a game that I enjoyed. Alot of you have been around for a long time with Redeemed, and some just a short time...but we all know that we came here to be with each other. Drawn to the other brothers and sisters in Christ, we share a unique bond that the world does not understand. Think about it, what has being in Redeemed done for you? Are you putting into the guild what you want out of it?

What a blessing it is to be in the presence of God. This game is different to people in many aspects. Some play to play a game, others play for the clean atmosphere, others play for the social aspect, and some play to take their mind off of real world issues. Whatever the reason for each of you being here is your own, but we all came together to be with like-minded believers. Redeemed was not a guild founded on principles of raiding, nor of PvP, or gear, but rather on the principle of having fun and being with other Christians. Over time it has changed, not becoming better or worse, but rather a new entity. It not offers a guild bank with access, it offers raiding, it offers PvP opportunities with guildmates and still offers a social atmosphere. Some of these are newer than others, but the guild has become more diverse, trying to offer more to a larger crowd.

Thus lies the problem...a guild with over 400 accounts is bound to have issues with people wanting to do different things. Forming raiding teams, forming PvP teams, grinding, leveling new toons, instances, etc. etc. I know for a fact that officers are doing everything they can to make things work for the raiders and I commend them for it. In fact, if you haven't thanked your officers for doing what they have to help move Redeemed's raiding along, its about time to start doing so.

So now what...my only other thought is that there are members that are not happy for different reasons. While the leadership does what it can to solve the bigger problems, it also will need to rely on its members to help tackle the smaller problems. Perhaps having a guildwide meeting to bring up issues and do some brainstorming would help, perhaps creating a graph (Gilga-graphmaster) to outline issues and how to resolve them would be a good step, perhaps bringing in officers for new roles (activity coordinators again for PvP, Bible studies, social events), perhaps praying daily/weekly over vent with others for issues....there are lots of avenues to travel but your leadership can only do so many on their own. Redeemed has always had members that have stepped out of the box to go above and beyond their normal call of duty (Avesther for example)and it sounds like its time for that to happen again.

So again I'll ask, have you put into what you would like to get out of the guild? What ideas do you have that might help solve an issue? What can you do to help roll it out to the guild? Everyone can play a role, from as simple as being inspirational in forum posts, to praying, to donating items to the guild bank, to having an extra minute to help a guildie out, to encouraging the leaders. Give of yourself and you will surely find blessings in abundance.

My hope is to see this great guild flourish in all it does. Let's take a minute to reflect on our roles in the guild, not to be merely followers and players of the game, but also to to edify one another in all we do.

To those who think they are ready to leave, thinking about leaving or taking time off from this situation I would ask that you pray and seek God first to ensure that this is what is needed. It always amazes me that when people decide to stay and work together, that when things are accomplished it makes those people that much more awesome.
 
I have never raided before where I was important...nor have I raided above level 43... I am looking forward to raiding at 70 with you all and hope everything gets worked out...
 
is it just me or did 2 healers and a tank that have left us(one of which said we were going nowhere so he transferred) say we need to stick together and tough it out? :p
 
Heh, yeh but I left for my own personal reasons, not issues with the guild. :) The game was becoming a wedge between me and my wife, drawing time from me that belonged to her. And I only speak out on the subject b\c I care for the guild and its members greatly. We do miss you guys!
 
Is it just me, are we doing the gossipy thing and nay saying thing. This should not be. Did I leave yes, and am I here now when we need people, and commeradire saying hey, there is a way through this. Elihu posts for the same reason. We are a guild founded among Christ minded members. We all have our challenges , we all have our issues.

We all have each other and each others back. Cory’s post was not a kick in the face, he did not point to me (OR anyone ) and say you are a no good so and so. What he did say was if you want to get it done, be where you wanna be, and have the tools with you to do it.

Now before we go into why you can or cannot. Not everyone finishes the race, THAT’S OK< not all of us are Triathletes, or Hardcore raiders. But we can do both, we can casually raid, or hardcore. I am sure in the WHOLE GUILD we have room for both. Not everyone accomplishes great things, but even the little thing matter.

To quit because a main raider wanted to inform the team what is needed for success. Is sad, we will miss you, but you do not have to go, you can casually raid, we can get a crew together for that. If you feel you need to leave, you will be missed. Sadly missed. But not everyone is cut out for everything.

BUT all have a home here in Redeemed. Our Lowbies lovers, our flower pickers, our pvp’ers, Soloist and raiders, our mat gathers and bible studies and our socialites. All are welcome to bring to the table what you can in a drama free environment. But you get what you give, if you do not have the time and want to hardcore game/raid, let us know what the challenges are I have never EVER seen, Cory, Goblit , Odale, Itch, and all the many wonderful Rest of the guild of the Redeemed, not help anyone achieve their personal or spiritual goals, who were not sincere and working for the betterment of themselves and the whole guild.

WE yes we are a guild, founded, and anchored in our beliefs and love of one another. The raiding, the pvp’ing and all the rest are the fun of it. If its no longer fun. Don’t play take a break. You are always welcome, today, next week, next year. Just don’t burn the brigde,a nd even then if your willing to swim back we will be here.

So I do not know if anything really needs to be done after reading all these post? Maybe separate the times of the hardcore form the not so hard core, maybe team leader who will make sure like little sergeants there classes are ready for the raid and if their not how do we accomplish being ready. Maybe even a casual raid or two to build up for the hardcore slap them silly and laugh raiding team. Like a prep team.

There are so many ways we can meet those needs without losing who we are or our loved and valued members. And we can do it without pointing fingers or digging up the past by focusing on the here and now. So if someone can dig up a list, of what needs to be done, where the conflict lies, and what are some solutions, we can trudge through this and make most of the body happy. Because we all know we cannot make everyone happy, but we can all get along and smile !!!!!!


Again, just my 2 cents
 
All Cory was asking was when he raids with a team that team be ready to accomplish the mission at hand, with the same or similar drive as he has. Now this may not be for everyone, but with the people Redeemed has, if that is two hardcore maybe it’s possible to have a little less hardcore raid. I do not know if this is possible, but aren’t all things?
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Thats the jist of it right there. You don't have to be hard core to come prepared to give your best. I think you could ask Jadoron the difference of having Mageblood and Healing power elixer and golden fishsticks. I think he was quite happy to stand there and hammer out bigger heals and nearly always have a seemingly endless supply of mana.

(Sorry to point you out, but I noticed a huge difference in Kara last night, and you were so happy to have insane mana regen)
 
Ok more about my post from above. I remember this from my pastor and its eating me like fire.

Not all 70’s have time to collect the mats they need, TRUE but of all of us, I can at my level gather mats at a normal hours and would willingly give those to those who have time to raid hardcore. Like a missionary, I can not fly to Africa to help the children. But God blessed me with a fine job where I can give so resources to those who can. As a body we all work together, I do not care if or if not I raid, weather I am giving 5 hours to a raid, or grinding mats and picking flowers I am pretty c9ntent.

Weather I am running lowbies trough an instance or heling Where drop whatever mob, I am just happy for some witty conversation and a chance to hang.

But some like to raid, if you cannot study a boss stat, let the raid leader know, I am sure he can write up a break down in the shortest way and email it to ya.

If you can not raid , but have every Tuesday morning to collect mats and mail them to the bank and your ok with that. Because I know there is someone out there who is. Do it, then we can strengthen those who can not spend the 4 hours collecting what they need.

We all can help, whatever nitch is needed. You all have the skilss, and hearts to do it. This really should be an non issue.

Ok off soapbox till needed.

Have a good day
 
another idea has come to me... mite be ignored again but hey who knows..
i think taking a guild wide survey again about who wants to be hardcore raiders and who doesnt. whats the best time to start raids best days things like i think will help ALOT.
also i think the idea of having ppl farm that arent raiding is great. it gives u something to do and to have a purpose. i really think its crucial that we all bring out best to raids. im not saying be like me and buy everything u can to help. just get the buff foods and a pot or 2.. its not saying u have to go buy those epic bullets, 2 or more of those stubborn flasks, mana pots, buff food, etc etc. just bring your best to raids. bring some pots and things to help increase your dps or healing or tanking ability. if u cant get your own cause u dont have time ASK and someone will be willing to help.
after a while of thinking about this all over again i relized that ive been wasting my time. i just sit there and wait and wait and wait for a raid to start, while i could be lvling fishing,cooking, mining or anything along those lines that can help me get money and to better myself to better guild.
also id like to point out the fact that to get your pots and stuff is easy. do your dailies. if u do atleast 2 of them u have 22g+, and u get some pots tossed in with that ull be fine. the dailies r an amazing tool to be used because they take what less then 10 mins for each? and u can do alot of them at the same time. and its a way to get away from farming..

those r my thoughts
 
galatian said:
after a while of thinking about this all over again i relized that ive been wasting my time. i just sit there and wait and wait and wait for a raid to start, while i could be lvling fishing,cooking, mining or anything along those lines that can help me get money and to better myself to better guild.
those r my thoughts
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The last line is it, Better myself for Guild, but for yourself! bring something to the Table, Love on a guildie who needs to farm something, if you need something let us know. I will apparently be re rolling a druid (to prove a point) adn besides, you just wouldn't feel the same about toadgirl, or papaschica( though...) so i will be flying throu the newbie lands as soon as I can, but I would be glad to farm with toadgirl.

But make it happen, be the change you want. make the surveys, start a list. its not our guild leaders who need to do this. but Us. make it happen.........

i know I'll feel better for it......LOL
 
I think the problem is that most people don't know what it means to be a "hardcore raider". Having 8-10 epics doesn't make you hardcore. Heck, having all epics doesn't even make you hardcore. Wanting to raid every night doesn't make you hardcore. It's the whole package...

-Heroic and crafted gear
-All blue gems
-All gear enchanted
-Brings consumables (food buffs, weapon buffs - IE wizard oil, flasks)
-Reads up on fights in advance
-Watches videos of the fights
-High raid attendance
-More concerned with progression than loot
-Real performance on the meters
-LEARNS FROM MISTAKES!
-Positive attitude
-Willing to help noobs

Think of it like this... You know the feeling you get when Quantam joins your kara raid? You KNOW he's got the best of the best, he knows how to play his class, he's got all his food buffs, and he knows the fights.

Thats how we want to feel when we invite YOU to our raids! And don't say "Well, that's just because you guys get to go on any raid you want". Quantam is only wearing 2 items out of kara, nothing from HKM/Gruul/VR. Most of our gear was crafted, dropped in heroics, honor/arena gear, or purchased with badges. I don't expect everyone to have all epics. Thats why the game is fun! But I do expect people to give their all.
 
I agree with galatians and treehouse, but what you forgot is you need to define what's hardcore and what's "bringing your best to the table".

tree explained hardcore, but what i see is a lot of people don't know what exactly is there "best"? How can you bring your "best" if you don't know what your "best" is?

before reaching 70, i would never have known that a 4 combo points finishing move does better sustained dps compared to a 5 combo points finishing move; mangle+3xshred = my best dps rotation; power-shifting, I have to learn them from someone, so i go read the druid forums when i have the time.

and yes i do have a real life, I go to penn state, I'm Junior supply chain major, and I'm still on the dean's list. being able to do these things has nothing to do with real life situations; if your real life is too hectic for you to play wow and learn about the game at the same time, then maybe you should take the time from wow and focus on real life first. unlike other video games where you play to relax, i think wow is something you have to learn to play with quite a bit of time invested, especially if you want to raid.

that being said, theres nothing wrong with playing casually; but raiding "casually" is nothing but selfishness.
 
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