Jim
New Member
edit- never mind, it works now
Does it matter what is said here?
- Thread starter LionOfJudah
- Start date
Jim
New Member
About this evidence of God/evidence against God.
Come on, now. If there was conclusive proof God exists, why is there such a high number of people who doubt God? Why is there so much division and disagreement WITHIN the religion, nevermind without?
Evidence of God. Please, indulge me and give a simple, concise answer as to what YOU believe (And don't give loads of links to books etc) constitutes strong evidence of God.
Come on, now. If there was conclusive proof God exists, why is there such a high number of people who doubt God? Why is there so much division and disagreement WITHIN the religion, nevermind without?
Evidence of God. Please, indulge me and give a simple, concise answer as to what YOU believe (And don't give loads of links to books etc) constitutes strong evidence of God.
Rithkil
New Member
[b said:
To not believe in God or a creator means you don't believe in anything. DV told me so. If you don't believe in anything how can you be consistent? If you outrightly push away the idea of the existence of a creator, that is stubborn. You say we are stubborn for not changing our ways. That's because in a world with no God, there is no hope. WHy should we wenter into the belief of hopelessness, or the state of hopelessness.
Dark Virtue
New Member
[b said:
I NEVER SAID THAT!
[b said:
I have also said that this isn't true. Guess what Rithkil, THERE IS HOPE WITHOUT A GOD. It's as simple as that. Atheists have hope, to say otherwise is a lie.
[b said:
So your belief in God is founded on the fear of not wanting to have nothing to believe in? You're right, that IS sad.
Sheesh, are you listening to anything we say Rithkil?[b said:
To not believe in a creator does NOT mean that you believe in nothing.
'Consistency' is NOT dependent upon faith.
There is no 'pushing away' in atheism; we disbelieve in god because of evidence and the lack of it.
There IS hope without god. Atheists are not hopeless depressives. Case in point, ME.
Rithkil
New Member
[b said:
Yes you did. You said athiesm is not a belief system. Maybe I didn't say exactly what I meant. You said athiesm was not a belief system. I guess I didn't explain enough.
[b said:
Of course you have hope. Cause there IS a God. In a world with no God, or nobody to hold every aspect of life together, there is no hope. I NEVER said YOU personally had no hope.
[b said:
Uh, you got it all wrong. You could say that about any religion. Our belief in God is founded on our relationship with Jesus Christ.
[b said:
Yep, have to every day. Okay, I meant that Athiesm is NOT a belief system. That's what DV said, AM I right? Flame at me if I'm wrong. Consistency does have to do something with faith. Otherwise, it's not true FAITH is it. Yes, I know you guys just don't have enough EVIDENCE for a creator. I said if you DO push away, that is stubborness. I never said you were. To say there is HOPE for athiests is true. To say there is hope without a God is not true. That is what I believe, you believe the opposite. We have our seperate beliefs. Let's respect them.
Atheism is not a belief system no, though it is a belief. So yes, it would be wrong to say that we belief in 'nothing.' We do not believe in the existence of a god, but beliefs do not come from god now do they? They come from us.
Faith does have something to do with consistency, but what I said was that consistency was not 'dependent upon' faith, which is true. And consistency is only good when you're always right, otherwise it's best to be flexible.
You are right to say that we would be being stubborn if we pushed away god regardless of evidence to the contrary, but we are not doing this. Athiests are commonly very open minded, hence the 'freethinker.' Thus it is very uncommon to find a stubborn atheist, as it goes against the fundamental nature of their belief. A much better arguement can be had for stubbornness in theists, for reasons I am sure you are aware of.
Atheism is not a state of 'hopelessness.' If by hope you mean a promise for life after death, then yeah, I guess we are hopeless. But hope is not dependent upon god in that way. Atheists can have hope in things just like anyone else can, and it's exclusive from the presence of a god.
Faith does have something to do with consistency, but what I said was that consistency was not 'dependent upon' faith, which is true. And consistency is only good when you're always right, otherwise it's best to be flexible.
You are right to say that we would be being stubborn if we pushed away god regardless of evidence to the contrary, but we are not doing this. Athiests are commonly very open minded, hence the 'freethinker.' Thus it is very uncommon to find a stubborn atheist, as it goes against the fundamental nature of their belief. A much better arguement can be had for stubbornness in theists, for reasons I am sure you are aware of.
Atheism is not a state of 'hopelessness.' If by hope you mean a promise for life after death, then yeah, I guess we are hopeless. But hope is not dependent upon god in that way. Atheists can have hope in things just like anyone else can, and it's exclusive from the presence of a god.
Dark Virtue
New Member
[b said:
[b said:
Yes, I did say that atheism is not a belief system, that is true. HOWEVER, I NEVER said, "To not believe in God or a creator means you don't believe in anything". THAT is what you tried to attribute to me and that is incorrect.
[b said:
You misunderstood. We have hope APART from God. WITHOUT God. ASIDE from God. We have hope IN SPITE of God. We do not need to have God to have hope in this life.
[b said:
Fear is a HUGE motivator, people here on this board have said that time and time again. Sorry, but some of us will not be frightened into believing in the unexplainable. I do not need to believe in an afterlife to be happy here and now. YOU don't need that either, but it's EASIER to do so. It's easier to believe in things that can't be explained.
[b said:
Exactly why is this not true? I will only respect your beliefs if your beliefs are grounded on some sort of reason and logic. I hold myself to that same standard. So please, explain to me why hope without God is not TRUE and not just your opinion.
Rithkil
New Member
[b said:
I explained that I did not explain enough when I said that. I meant that AThiesm is not a belief system. You misunderstood me.
[b said:
AND that is what you personally believe. I understand. But I disagree. Now we're at another standstill.
[b said:
Dark Virtue
New Member
[b said:
This doesn't answer the question. You have merely stated your opinion, you did not prove a TRUTH as you so claimed. That one cannot have hope without God. So please, try again.
[b said:
Guess what? I don't know. MANY people don't know. I am following logical protocols by removing theories which aren't true. There is no evidence to support a God so I don't believe in that. Scientific evidence has poked huge, gaping holes in Darwinian evolution, so I don't believe in that either. I am not afraid to stand in front of you and say I DON'T KNOW.
Rithkil
New Member
[b said:
That is reason. That is logic. That is what you asked. May be my opinion, but it's true. Anybody can ask that. What is holding the universe together? That is a logical statement.
[b said:
And don't be afraid to say I DON'T KNOW. I respect that. Lot's of people don't know. Nobody knows in fact how the universe was created. Nobody knows EXACTLY what happened save(by what I believe) God himself. I believe there IS evidence, but you have not found it yet. Keep searching. I understand you have not figured out what to stand on yet. In fact, Christians disagree with eachother alot and there are lots of changing beliefs. Thank you for answering my question.
Dark Virtue
New Member
Just because you have an opinion, doesn't make your opinion TRUE. That was my point.
You shouldn't be afraid to say you don't know either
You shouldn't be afraid to say you don't know either
Rithkil
New Member
Of course. Nobody knows the whole truth. Yes, don't be afraid to say you don't know. Because nobody knows.
Dark Virtue
New Member
LOL, by that logic, then YOU don't know either, though you still claim that you do.
Rithkil
New Member
I said it was MY opinion. ANd I said the WHOLE truth. WE can never know COMPLETELY. TAking things out of context.
Dark Virtue
New Member
So you believe in something whole heartedly even though you can't believe in it's truth completely?
dudedude7000
New Member
Faith sir, it's faith. If you want proof of the existence of God then look at the stars. Consider just how vast the universe really is, earth seems so small and insignificant in comparison. How could that possibly be random chance? Seems logical that God exists to me. I just don't see how earth was just suddenly "here" or that we could have "evolved", those are just man's futile attempts to deny God's existence! Earth and all of the universe scream at the top of thier lungs that there is a Creator! I just don't see what more evidence you could possibly need!
Dark Virtue
New Member
How about SUFFICIENT, ADEQUATE, INDISPUTABLE evidence?
You can't wrap your mind around the big bang theory or evolution, but you don't have a problem with God ALWAYS existing? How long did it take for God to get bored before He started creating stuff?
All you did was push logic and reason neatly off to one side and chose to dive headfirst into unproveable things.
This is something that I constantly battle with. I don't believe in gods because there is not PROOF. You believe in God because...why? Did God give YOU the proof you needed to believe? Or do you blindly trust faith with no regards for proof? If you chose blind faith, then of course you wouldn't understand why I ask for logical proof. If, however, God gave you all the proof YOU PERSONALLY needed to believe, then I am patiently waiting for mine. Not everyone can believe with the same level of proof. And I take great offense when people suggest that I am stubbornly denying God's existence in the midst of all this "proof" that doesn't exist.
You can't wrap your mind around the big bang theory or evolution, but you don't have a problem with God ALWAYS existing? How long did it take for God to get bored before He started creating stuff?
All you did was push logic and reason neatly off to one side and chose to dive headfirst into unproveable things.
This is something that I constantly battle with. I don't believe in gods because there is not PROOF. You believe in God because...why? Did God give YOU the proof you needed to believe? Or do you blindly trust faith with no regards for proof? If you chose blind faith, then of course you wouldn't understand why I ask for logical proof. If, however, God gave you all the proof YOU PERSONALLY needed to believe, then I am patiently waiting for mine. Not everyone can believe with the same level of proof. And I take great offense when people suggest that I am stubbornly denying God's existence in the midst of all this "proof" that doesn't exist.
dudedude7000
New Member
Well forgive me if I offend/have offended you, but eternity is something the human mind just can't comprehend, how long did God wait around? Who knows? GOD does! No human can ever even guess at the answer to that question.
Dark Virtue
New Member
If the Human Mind has difficulty comprehending extremely difficult situations, like God always being, then isn't it safe to assume that the Human Mind would also have difficulty in believing that the Big Bang is a probability and not an impossibility?