Atlantis

Well, I disagree with you on that one, to a large degree, Eon.

People don't realize.......Faith isn't something to be handled scientifically, but judicially. You wouldn't sentence a supposed murderer to death just because his polygraph showed certain signs. You'd put him on trial.

That's what you have to do with faith -- look at the evidence, they kind of LONGSTANDING impact it has had globally, the kind of people it has created....Things like that.

Van
 
Theoretically there is no difference between the faith of the missionary and the faith of the psychopath - they both follow strict internal logic based on reasoning inputs that are disconnected, as it were, from empirical analysis.

In the case of the psychopath it's the belief that he is the bright, shining, centre of an otherwise dark universe. In the case of the missionary, that centre is externalised.

Eon
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]There is a reason why it is called FAITH. Faith is believing without seeing. If you truely believed, you would have known that even if God didn't show Himself to you, He still exists.
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Jango, your reasoning is seriously flawed. You keep on making statements that don't make any sense. Your statement is akin to saying that since a paranoid schizophrenic believes that there are people watching him and following him around, such people must really exist, even though he's never see them. He truly believes they exist, so they must exist.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Not that it makes a blind bit of difference - I can believe in Booji, the Hippo God of Dancing if I like, and as I believe based on faith then it doesn't matter if I never see a single miracle or commune with a single dancing hippo in my whole life. And nobody can prove or disprove such a statement.
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Does booji have a Bible? We don't have faith in miracles, we have faith in God. I have objectively seen miracles. It doesn't take faith to believe there was a man named Jesus who walked the earth a couple thousand years ago, it takes faith to believe he was God.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Theoretically there is no difference between the faith of the missionary and the faith of the psychopath - they both follow strict internal logic based on reasoning inputs that are disconnected, as it were, from empirical analysis.
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I didn't create the Bible. I'm not imagining this complex world around me. I never forgave myself of my sins. I didn't fabricate Jesus, the disciples, the historians that talk about Jesus, the dead sea scrolls, or fudge any history to agree with the Bible. I'm not imagining the love of the community of believers I'm around, or makeing up morals as I go along. You can make up your morals to fit your life, and make up your philosophies that best suit you, but you can't give yourself life. If you want to compare Christians to the unfortuante psychologically impared, say what you will. I think it takes more faith to believe in evolution than Creation.
 
/Spike Impression "Oooh, that's a big book. I can't wait to tell my friends, none of them have a book that big" /Spike Impression

Sorry for the sarcasm, but the bible was written by men, it was illustrated by men, edited by men and printed by men finally it's distributed by men. In no way is the bible proof of any supernatural agency - it's just a big book. There are bigger books out there.

Eon
 
I tend to agree, figuring the statistics that I'm sure you've had counted out to you several times, yet all of them all concuring with one another. Hmph.

NEver thought that over the course of a few hundred years, so many DIFFERENT PEOPLE could have the EXACT SAME THOUGHT STREAM!

Van
 
who said its not a secret orginization that had this all planned out from the begining as a plan to take over the world like the Illuminoti..... or the Knights of the Templar.....
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love all those consiparcy theories LOL.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Jango @ Mar. 03 2004,12:04)]There isn't "magic", the only "magic" we know of that isn't just illusions is the power of Satan. That's why we shouldn't go to true fortune tellers, or anyone like that. ( Because they call upon Satan's power. )
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considering "they" don't belive in satan then your statement is false. only christians believe in satan to claim otherwise is rediculous.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dionysus @ Mar. 18 2004,3:38)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Jango @ Mar. 03 2004,12:04)]There isn't "magic", the only "magic" we know of that isn't just illusions is the power of Satan. That's why we shouldn't go to true fortune tellers, or anyone like that. ( Because they call upon Satan's power. )
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considering "they" don't belive in satan then your statement is false.  only christians believe in satan to claim otherwise is rediculous.
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A person doesn't need to believe that a "supreme" evil force exists to do its will. In fact, it would be far more beneficial (to satan) if everybody in the world would agree that he didn't exist, because that would imply that the Bible is wrong and therefore God doesn't exist.

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist." - The Usual Suspects
 
Timor - "I'm sure you'll understand, Eon, when I say that I will not believe in magic until I see it, or it is objectively, empirically observed and studied."

I'd like to say the same thing about God
 
Jango - "There isn't "magic", the only "magic" we know of that isn't just illusions is the power of Satan. That's why we shouldn't go to true fortune tellers, or anyone like that. ( Because they call upon Satan's power. )"

Why is it that Christians can drink the blood of their leader, and yet call fortune telling or the teaching of other religions the work of the devil?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (jesuswasnotchristian @ Mar. 19 2004,2:52)]Jango - "There isn't "magic", the only "magic" we know of that isn't just illusions is the power of Satan. That's why we shouldn't go to true fortune tellers, or anyone like that. ( Because they call upon Satan's power. )"

Why is it that Christians can drink the blood of their leader, and yet call fortune telling or the teaching of other religions the work of the devil?
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Not all christians believe the blood is real. Many take it as symbolic. I am curious though, what do you mean by your name.
 
Why are we so afraid to believe in the power within ourselves, whether it is "magic", or just simple hard work and objective reasoning. We give credit to God for all of humanity's hard earned accomplishments and success, and blame everything bad we do on the devil instead of take responsibility for our own shortcomings.
 
This is what my name means. The structure of the church was made after his death, and is not true to his example. In refusing to have his feet cleaned, and instead cleaning the feet of others, he showed his followers the flaws of hierarchy and class differences. However, Popes and Priests reinforce the heirarchy of the temple he struggled to change. Even physically, The Church does not resemble the meeting places Jesus chose to teach in - open fields and public spaces, forests; The places where worshipers could witness the glory of nature and see Gods' creations. Instead Churches are enormous manmade structures, placing a physical barrier between us and God. Similarly, priests place a barrier between us and God. Jesus taught us how to communicate with God directly, without the need of mediators, through prayer. The notion of a Church where we are guided along through worship by a leader in front of the entire community (assuming the entire community goes to Church) contradicts Jesus, who says in Mathew 6:5-6 "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synogagues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father wich is in secret; and thy Father wich seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."
 
I agree with you partially, sir, but not completely by any means. I've always wished that we could hold services outside, but that's not the way this world has evolved. Outside now, you'd be interupted by honking car horns, noisey radios, construction --- all of the OTHER man-made things.

Corporate worship was never downed in the Bible, David was known for running about naked in front of everyone praising God.

If you want to worship God and let people see, go for it -- we should be worshipping Him with everything we do.

I think Christ meant don't draw attention to yourself.

To say that it's wrong for one man or woman to stand before a congregation is also flawed reasoning -- what do you think the apostles did when they went to evangelize? Stood around with everyone else and did nothing?

No, they preached the truths they had been taught.

I also do not think it is wrong to pray amongst other Christians. Sometimes it's what helps me through the day, really.

Van
 
Thank you for you post Van. I would like to clarify my statement, but it is after 3:30 am so i should probably get some sleep first. For now let me at least assure you that i do not believe such community is wrong by any means.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Mar. 18 2004,7:30)]try to get 40 random people to write a big book and have it all coincide and agree.  Good luck!
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I guess you'd have to be Emperor of all Christendom, call everyone to your capital city and refuse to release them until they'd agreed. Then you'd need to bring them to an arrangement at sword point until they booted out the stuff you wanted them to and accepted the rest.

Finally you'd need to establish a church with a strong paramilitary arm, and use those soldiers to eradicate anyone who believed differently.
 
We won't get into the facts that the books were written hundreds of years apart, many miles apart, used by the early church fathers and other things like that.
 
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