Jango
New Member
You sure? I thought I saw him on season two.[b said:
Atlantis
- Thread starter timor
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Grand Master
New Member
"The ignorance of your arrogance." LOL. I was being facetious, Jango. Unfortunately, it went over your head. It would hardly make sense for an atheist to seriously claim some god is afraid of him when he doesn't believe in one, would it?
Thadius, my version of the truth is based on empiricism. There is no solid evidence for the existence of any god or gods. Belief in a god is not rational, logical, nor reasonable. Unless there is proof for a god, it is folly to believe in one.
Thadius, my version of the truth is based on empiricism. There is no solid evidence for the existence of any god or gods. Belief in a god is not rational, logical, nor reasonable. Unless there is proof for a god, it is folly to believe in one.
Jango
New Member
Of course, believeing that humans evolved from smaller creatures is not rational, logical, nor reasonable either.
[toj.cc]El Jefe[sww:D]
New Member
I'm just curious about what sort of empiricism is necessary for you to see that God exists. Can you give an example? Because everywhere I look I see evidence empirical enough to remind me that He exists. Here's another question: when you look at the cars parked outside and you read the little emblem saying "Ford" or "Honda", do you believe that just because a car is labeled thus, it is empirical evidence that Ford or Honda did indeed make the car?
Thaddius
Member
[b said:
I see. So you have no proof that what you believe is true. You can show no evidence of it. Someone suggested it and you thought "hey, that sounds good, I'll go with that." And yet we are called mindless sheep....
There is no solid evidence that there is a God in your eyes, but do you have solid evidence that there is not a God? If you do, please enlighten us.
Cory
Actually it is remarkably easy to show the proof of a scientific experiment - all you have to do is pop out and buy a textbook. Et voila! Proof positive. Of course if you don't believe just because it's in the book, try carrying out the experiments yourself, as they're listed - Et voila, more proof!
If, on the otherhand, you decide to explore the core proofs of a scientific theory or law, and you discover major errors or untruths, then mail them in to a scientific foundation or university - and watch science alter to fit the truth as we know it. That's what empiricism means - it means that the theory alters to fit the facts we have available.
You, on the other hand, have one book. One book that never changes, never alters to take into account the fact that we find out more and more about the world as we go. Now, which side of the argument is bleating?
If, on the otherhand, you decide to explore the core proofs of a scientific theory or law, and you discover major errors or untruths, then mail them in to a scientific foundation or university - and watch science alter to fit the truth as we know it. That's what empiricism means - it means that the theory alters to fit the facts we have available.
You, on the other hand, have one book. One book that never changes, never alters to take into account the fact that we find out more and more about the world as we go. Now, which side of the argument is bleating?
[toj.cc]El Jefe[sww:D]
New Member
Our book: flawless, needs no changes.
Your book: flawed, needs constant revisions/updates.
If something starts out perfect, can it really improve?
Your book: flawed, needs constant revisions/updates.
If something starts out perfect, can it really improve?
Thaddius
Member
I thought the way it worked is if something could not be disproven it was accepted as theory. That does not equate to positive proof. It cannot be proven that we came from a single one celled organism. It cannot yet be disproven so it is accepted as a theory.
Cory
Cory
That's the thing that bothers me about evolution the most --- not that it goes against the Bible, which is bad enough within itself, but that it is taught as FACT almost EVERYWHERE you go.
I engaged my my biology teacher a couple of weeks ago in a conversation in a lecture class of about three hundred people, and asked her why she was teaching evolution as fact when it is still considered theory. She didn't respond. I then proceeded to ask why we don't go over other theories, such as the Gaia theory, Creationism, and other things like that.
She finally got around to answering my first question, which turned into a full-on discussion about why evolution was true (her thought) or wasn't true (my thought). It got to a point where she couldn't give sufficient answers to my questions anymore. Guess what she did?
She got mad at me and declared that if I said another word, she would drop me from her class.
I later found out that she's a staunch Darwinist. Figures.
Vanaze
I engaged my my biology teacher a couple of weeks ago in a conversation in a lecture class of about three hundred people, and asked her why she was teaching evolution as fact when it is still considered theory. She didn't respond. I then proceeded to ask why we don't go over other theories, such as the Gaia theory, Creationism, and other things like that.
She finally got around to answering my first question, which turned into a full-on discussion about why evolution was true (her thought) or wasn't true (my thought). It got to a point where she couldn't give sufficient answers to my questions anymore. Guess what she did?
She got mad at me and declared that if I said another word, she would drop me from her class.
I later found out that she's a staunch Darwinist. Figures.
Vanaze
Grand Master
New Member
Thaddius, nobody suggested to me that there was no god, at which point I said "Okey dokey, sounds good." No, what happened was I started really thinking about what the Bible was saying and how, upon deeper inspection, it made no sense. At that point I still wanted to believe in a god; after all, heaven sounds pretty nice. But as I continued to think about it, I could I realized that my belief was based on nothing of substance. The only thing I had was a desire to believe in an afterlife, but wanting to believe something isn't a good enough reason to continue believing in it for me. If you want to call me a sheep, you'd probably have to call me a black sheep. I am the only person in my family (immediate and extended) to hold an atheist view. The rest of them are all Christians. You think it didn't require some indpependent thought to get to my current state when everyone surrounding me is telling me the same thing? Why do you think religions are so regionalized? Because everyone coincidentally came to the same logical conclusion about their beliefs after a lot of thought?
Your question asking me to present proof against the existence of a god is not a reasonable one. I can't do that. But you can't prove to me that leprechauns, fairies, trolls, and unicorns don't exist either. You are the one making the positive claim, so you should be able to back it up, but you can't.
El Jefe, if there is a god, all that I would ask is that he present himself obviously, as represented in the Bible on many occasions. Funny how that has never happened since then. However, even if there was a god who presented himself to me, I would still not subscribe to any Christian view.
Vanaze, I would guess that your instructor was poorly equipped to deal with your questions. Go bring your arguments to a paleontologist or an evolutionary biologist and see how far you get.
Your question asking me to present proof against the existence of a god is not a reasonable one. I can't do that. But you can't prove to me that leprechauns, fairies, trolls, and unicorns don't exist either. You are the one making the positive claim, so you should be able to back it up, but you can't.
El Jefe, if there is a god, all that I would ask is that he present himself obviously, as represented in the Bible on many occasions. Funny how that has never happened since then. However, even if there was a god who presented himself to me, I would still not subscribe to any Christian view.
Vanaze, I would guess that your instructor was poorly equipped to deal with your questions. Go bring your arguments to a paleontologist or an evolutionary biologist and see how far you get.
Jango
New Member
God isn't just going to show Himself to us so we will believe. He wants us to believe with faith. And anyway we would die, because we cannot look upon His righteousness. Plus, why would He show Himself to you if you wouldn't believe?[b said:
I'm just saying that seeing as you guys have faith without proof, I suppose that explains why it's fair that you have salvation without works - after all, if the other guy's doing nothing, why should you? 
Blessed are they who believe without seeing - because they are exactly the kind of sheep you want at your back when something difficult, dangerous and probably fatal needs doing. A nice wooly shock absorber...
Blessed are they who believe without seeing - because they are exactly the kind of sheep you want at your back when something difficult, dangerous and probably fatal needs doing. A nice wooly shock absorber...
Oh, come now Eon, can you not say that our Christians here at CGA have affected you in a personal way, made you think about things, or helped you through a rough or difficult time in your life? In any way?
I pray that we have given works enough, covered and smoothered in love like a Waffle House hashbrown, to show you that we're sincere about our salvation to the point that we wish you'd partake of salvation.
SURELY you cannot deny that we believe what we preach, even if we do follow a little blindly at times --- we're all here to learn. All of us, and I'd go so far as to say that everyone who has visted the CGA forums has learned something or had their heart changed in some way.
Van
I pray that we have given works enough, covered and smoothered in love like a Waffle House hashbrown, to show you that we're sincere about our salvation to the point that we wish you'd partake of salvation.
SURELY you cannot deny that we believe what we preach, even if we do follow a little blindly at times --- we're all here to learn. All of us, and I'd go so far as to say that everyone who has visted the CGA forums has learned something or had their heart changed in some way.
Van
Grand Master
New Member
Jango, I did believe at one time, but no god ever showed himself to me. That's why I don't have any faith now.
Vanaze, may I ask what school you go to? It strikes me as very odd that this paleontologist couldn't deal with a lot of your questions. Could you also post some of the questions the she was unable to answer?
"Blessed are those who have not seen yet still believe." The very nature of this statment suggests that what you believe in cannot be verified. So why believe in that particular thing when there are so many other possible truths?
Vanaze, may I ask what school you go to? It strikes me as very odd that this paleontologist couldn't deal with a lot of your questions. Could you also post some of the questions the she was unable to answer?
"Blessed are those who have not seen yet still believe." The very nature of this statment suggests that what you believe in cannot be verified. So why believe in that particular thing when there are so many other possible truths?
::Sigh:: Okay, from the top.
I attend a local community college, and this teacher grew up here, and her husband is a local businessman, so she teaches and goes on tours de (insert place here) during the 4 summer months.
I honestly don't know which questions I asked her, it was a while ago, but I have a fairly good idea, and after I go review my notes, I'll get back to you and post a few of them.
Wrong, the nature of that statement is just as it stands, not some inuendo to something that can't be verified. Don't twist the Word, thank you.
Vanaze
I attend a local community college, and this teacher grew up here, and her husband is a local businessman, so she teaches and goes on tours de (insert place here) during the 4 summer months.
I honestly don't know which questions I asked her, it was a while ago, but I have a fairly good idea, and after I go review my notes, I'll get back to you and post a few of them.
[b said:
Wrong, the nature of that statement is just as it stands, not some inuendo to something that can't be verified. Don't twist the Word, thank you.
Vanaze
Jango
New Member
There is a reason why it is called FAITH. Faith is believing without seeing. If you truely believed, you would have known that even if God didn't show Himself to you, He still exists.[b said:
Not that it makes a blind bit of difference - I can believe in Booji, the Hippo God of Dancing if I like, and as I believe based on faith then it doesn't matter if I never see a single miracle or commune with a single dancing hippo in my whole life. And nobody can prove or disprove such a statement.