MeanMrMustard
New Member
I don't see how it would hurt the ratings that much, would golf fans really stop watching just because a few women are allowed to compete? It's still mostly the same, all their favorite players would probably still be there. In fact it would probably increase ratings with a new (granted small) audience of female golf fans.
I'll answer you mustard. Because prejudice is disliking and treating a person or group unfairly because of their race/religon/beliefs etc.. Basically what you're saying is not letting everyone be a part of anything is prejudice, and that's just wrong. Should a muslim be allowed to join a christian church's commitee? Should a christian be allowed to join an atheist club?
People don't want women in the pga because traditionally it's a MEN's sport. But the feminist's just can't accept that. They have to smash everything dear to a man's heart in order to be what they deem "equal".
Give me a break.
People don't want women in the pga because traditionally it's a MEN's sport. But the feminist's just can't accept that. They have to smash everything dear to a man's heart in order to be what they deem "equal".
Give me a break.
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Tom Kazansky
Guest
[b said:
The same way refusing males from joining the women's only golf club in Toronto, refusing males from joining women's only gyms, and refusing males from attending school at Smith College is not seen as prejudiced. The feminists, Jesse Jackson, and other liberals are strangely silent on these issues, which I find incredibly amusing because they're the ones complaining about inequality at Augusta. My take has always been that it's a private club man, let them make their own decisions! What good is having an exclusive club if you're going to let everyone join anyway?
Here is another really funny thing about the issue. LPGA requires players to be women at birth. Is that wrong?
I personally don't care if a woman plays the PGA tour, but people have to drop the "equality" issues that are always brought up whenever a woman plays with men. It's becoming rediculous.
And my apologies for putting this in the "relgious discussion" board. I've had some secular discussions here (AA, abortion, etc), and figured it wouldn't be a big deal. One of the mods can move it to general if they wish.
MeanMrMustard
New Member
Thats a much different situation. If the main focus of the club is as a church group type of thing, then of course someone who didnt believe in it wouldn't be welcome. Golf however, is not primarily designed for men, you dont need to be a man to play, as you need to be a Christian to participate in worship or what have you.[b said:
Again, these are all different issues. All of those have the same reasoning behind them as the reason we have bathrooms or lockerooms divided up by sexes. Those are private, the PGA is public. It's watched and participated in by everyone as an event.[b said:
Augusta national is a seperate issue. I think there are actually some good arguments for keeping that the way it is. Although I also think that in that case the men at Augusta are actually bigots.[b said:
Oh please. The only reason there even is an LPGA is because women weren't allowed in the current one.[b said:
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Tom Kazansky
Guest
[b said:
Translation: They're different because the men are being oppressed, so it's not as big an issue to liberals since us men must pay for historically having "advantages". Tell me how being denied admittence into Smith College is worse than being denied access to some stupid golf game.
[b said:
Crying biggotry is a tactic that is over-employed by liberals. You also didn't respond to the women's only golf club issues. I guess that's because only men can be "bigots".
[b said:
Go read the rules of both the PGA and the LPGA and you'll see I'm right. A woman played in the PGA a long time ago too. You just owned yourself with that one.
MeanMrMustard
New Member
Tom that was sloppy, usually you bring up actual new points... I dont even think you read what I wrote.
You just jumped to your own conclusions here. I addressed this in my post, and I didn't say anything about men having advantages or that crap, whatever it means. There is no translation, I meant exactly what I said, dont try to interpret me, you dont know me and you dont know what I meant obviously.[b said:
Good job. You managed to make generalised biased statements that have nothing to back them up, and you did it all in response to my post that was agreeing with you.[b said:
When using a specific instance like that, in order to have any credibility you need to at least cite the source you got that information from to have any credibility. If women were freely allowed then this wouldn't be an issue now would it?[b said:
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Tom Kazansky
Guest
[b said:
You give no protest to the presence of women's only organizations, but when it comes to Augusta you say, "Although I also think that in that case the men at Augusta are actually bigots." So what exactly did you mean by that? Men's only clubs are biggoted but women's only clubs are somehow ok by your same standard? Also, you didn't answer my question so I will re-state it. Tell me how being denied admittence into Smith College is not worse than being denied access to some stupid golf game, or even some stupid golf club (Jesse Jackson repeatedly dodged this question on Crossfire by the way, and Martha Burke's answer was pretty pathetic, so I'm interested to see your answer). Actually, here's a second part of this question. Why is it the left, who are supposed to be the champions of equality, are so inconsistent on this issue? Is it because what I've stated above is true?
By the way, liberals are saying that men have been "historically advantaged", and often justify sex-based AA with that line, which in our hearts we all know is blatantly unfair despite what lefties might tell you.
[b said:
Generalised biased statements eh? Explain to me what Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are doing day by day? They're not the only ones!
[b said:
You want the source? CNN. In an interview with MARTHA BURKE (I'm sure you know who that is) this was brought up, and not argued by her. And in a subsequent episode of Crossfire (yesterday's Fireback segment), PAUL BEGALA (committed Democrat of Clinton-administration fame) made jokes about this rule! These are committed liberals, like yourself, and they are also constantly are saying about how Augusta is discriminatory but say nothing about women-only organizations. If you want the official rule book, you can find it off the internet. There are two, LEFT-WING sources for you, who should be protesting it but aren't.
As for a woman playing on the PGA before, they discussed this both on CNN and TSN (THE SPORTS NEWTORK). I don't remember her name, but it happened a long time ago. Sorry, but you lose on this one.
Exo-Slayer
Moderator
I think they should change a few things if there is going to be an LPGA there should be a Gentalemans PGA, and have the PGA be coed. Let the top scores overall from both compete in the PGA.
I have nothing wrong with Men and Women competeing on the same field if they feel they can handle it, especialy since she beat out a few of the men. The LGPA should not allow men because it specificly says Ladies but the PGA seems like a general leauge and should have no restrictions.
I have nothing wrong with Men and Women competeing on the same field if they feel they can handle it, especialy since she beat out a few of the men. The LGPA should not allow men because it specificly says Ladies but the PGA seems like a general leauge and should have no restrictions.
MeanMrMustard
New Member
I meant that in that specific case, after seeing a few statements and learning a little bit about the history behind it, I got the impression that although there was a decent argument being made by Augusta, they still gave me the impression of being bigots. You're bringing up women's clubs or whatever but without any specific cases. you can't accuse me of thinking a certain way all the time, or jump to conclusions about what my opinion would be.[b said:
I think the issue really depends on factors like, what the club is for, where its located, how wealthy or influential it is... To say that I never oppose any discrimination by women is untrue, I barely know any cases where it even happens.
Well I tried to in my last post, I guess it was a little unclear. There is good reasoning behind boys only schools, they are totally private, dont give much more of an advantage over girl's private schools, often they want to remove distractions so boys can focus on school, girls are of course huge distractions for adolescent boys, even adult men for that matter[b said:
The PGA is not really private, sure it may be owned privately, but when its something the whole country watches on Television, and watches commercials with PGA player's endorsments, and read about what goes on during games on the sports page, or sees highlights every day on the news... it's public entertainment, very different from a private school or social club that keeps to themselves.
I really can't understand why you keep bringing up Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, they really don't have anything to do with golf or this discussion as far as I can tell. I don't agree with a lot of what those men say, although I do think they get alot of unfair criticism. Thats a whole other topic though.[b said:
The only part I was curious about the source for was the part about a woman who played before. I hadn't heard that and was wondering about some details, like how long ago it was and how long she played etc... Anyway I dont lose, I was right, women aren't freely allowed to play in the PGA, despite what the actual rules say. If it were, this wouldn't be an issue at all right now. My original point for bringing it up, was that there probably wouldn't be an LPGA if the PGA were fully open to women, so its silly to call the LPGA sexist.[b said:
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Tom Kazansky
Guest
[b said:
Smith College and the Ladies' Golf Club of Toronto weren't specific enough?
[b said:
So since it's "private", unlike you claim the PGA to be, Smith College, which I hardly consider to be not in the public eye (I mean seriously, it's not tough to recognize Smith College as in the public eye. You may as well say Harvard is a "private" institution while you're at it.) it's ok for it to excersise somewhat "discriminatory" behaviour? By the way, boxing is in the public eye as well. Should Lennox Lewis face the next challenger from the women's league, since people are using it as a form of entertainment? Afterall, it's not fair for the women to not be able to challenge Lennox for the men's belt if they think they can beat him now is it? If you pull out the "golf is different" argument, than you've invalidated your answer and you'll have to try and answer my original question again. So basically, in your eyes, denying a person a chance to further their education at their desired institute simply because their a man is somewhat not as bad as denying a person a chance to play in a stupid golf game or join a stupid golf club because she's a woman?
[b said:
How can you say I'm making a "biased generalization" when the most hardcore liberals are doing exactly what I was saying? That's why I brought up Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.
[b said:
You should re-read your past posts and try making that statement again.
"When using a specific instance like that, in order to have any credibility you need to at least cite the source you got that information from to have any credibility."
You didn't think I knew what I was talking about did you? Therefore you didn't believe me. Therefore, you thought I was wrong and I proved myself right. Now where does that leave you?
If you think women don't freely play in the PGA than you're right on, but I wasn't talking about that point.
[b said:
It's ALWAYS an issue whenever a woman plays in a men's leauge! Manon Rheume played a game in the NHL and people made a big deal out of it. Halley Wickenheiser made a men's hockey team in Finland and people made a big deal out of it. People also made a big deal of that co-ed tennis match played a number of years ago where the female tennis player beat the male (I don't recall their names). I think that's stupid, I think people should just see the woman as another player! I felt so sorry for Annika when she didn't make the cut, and the reason she didn't is because the media put so much pressure on her, making it into something it shouldn't have been. She's an excellent golfer, she deserved to play in the PGA, but she ended up having a bad game when it really counted because she was overly stressed. That's a shame, because she trained very hard to be able to compete, and it really would have been interesting to see how she did in the tournament. At least that's something we can agree on!
Of course women playing in men's leagues isn't the norm. Of course women don't "freely" play in the PGA. It's a men's league, so are you at all surprised? That's like being shocked that Tiger Woods isn't tearing up the course at the LPGA!
[b said:
Despite the fact that the rules "discriminate" based upon the liberal standard for political correctness?
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Tom Kazansky
Guest
Want an article on the "blatant discrimination" of the Ladies' Only Golf Club?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_...._reilly
Are the ladies there as biggoted as the men of Augusta?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_...._reilly
Are the ladies there as biggoted as the men of Augusta?
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pieman3141
Guest
Rice is supposed to be tasteless. Noodles are supposed to be thin. Soda, OTOH, should be served in massive and unlimited quantities.
PGA is more about skill than physical toughness. Get the ball as close as possible to the hole as you can. Although she did complain a bit about her lack of power compared to the men, but I think that can be worked on. I think it's good that a woman can be on par to men in a game where people don't try to bodycheck/rough up one another. It's like segregating men and women in chess.
Hockey, or football on the other hand..... no.
Men would dominate just by size/strength. Agility/skill would go out the window.
BTW, I ONLY watch hockey. Cuz I AM CANADIAN!!!!!!!!!!
*sings Oh Canada in a loud and raucous manner*
PGA is more about skill than physical toughness. Get the ball as close as possible to the hole as you can. Although she did complain a bit about her lack of power compared to the men, but I think that can be worked on. I think it's good that a woman can be on par to men in a game where people don't try to bodycheck/rough up one another. It's like segregating men and women in chess.
Hockey, or football on the other hand..... no.
Men would dominate just by size/strength. Agility/skill would go out the window.
BTW, I ONLY watch hockey. Cuz I AM CANADIAN!!!!!!!!!!
*sings Oh Canada in a loud and raucous manner*
MeanMrMustard
New Member
Tom you and I could go back and forth nonstop on this. it sounds like we actually agree somewhat, at least about the whole Annika situation. I think I've made my point and we're starting to repeat so I'm not going to go through with another big specific post.
MaxX
You're right it is just a game, and I'm not the one making a big deal out of it. The people who dont want her to play are. If its just a meaningless game why do you care who plays?
MaxX
You're right it is just a game, and I'm not the one making a big deal out of it. The people who dont want her to play are. If its just a meaningless game why do you care who plays?
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Tom Kazansky
Guest
Fair enough mustard.
My official stance is that it's fine if she wants to play the PGA, but it's not ok to have one league as exclusively women, and one league as mixed. Either the PGA is a men's league and the LPGA is a women's league, or everyone competes for the PGA. You can't have both.
My official stance is that it's fine if she wants to play the PGA, but it's not ok to have one league as exclusively women, and one league as mixed. Either the PGA is a men's league and the LPGA is a women's league, or everyone competes for the PGA. You can't have both.