Why Ret

Hybrid classes are notorious for not being able to stay on par with pure DPS classes especially near end game content. Aside from perhaps itemization issues with certain classes it does logically make sense that a hybrid shouldn't be able to out DPS pure DPS classes(mages, locks, hunters, rogues).

For end game raiding guilds that I have seen they bring a fairly small amount of hybrid dps classes. Ret pallies, feral cat druids, elemental shamans, holy dps priests, and moonkins have been very few and far between for most end game guilds. The only exceptions are shadow priests and enhancement shamans because their utility and impact to their party helps out a ton.

Ret pallies do bring there buffs to the group but it sometimes seem to be outclassed by some other things. Like Proud says, ret pallies give an extra 3% crit, a blessing, and (for pally tanks) sanctity aura as well as being able to keep refreshing the judgments on a boss (hopefully that info is correct, I'm no expert on pallies).
Compared to enhance shamans, they come bring 2 buffing totems in Stregth of Earth (86 Strength base) and either Grace of Air (77 Agility base) or Windfury Totem and, if the shamans is willing, the melee team could get both grace of air and windfury (I know some tricks for shammies). They also have Unleashed Rage which gives the party 10% increased attack power each time the shaman crits which should probably stay up for most of the fight. And the kicker for them is their heroism.

They both suffer from a lack of agro wipe though. My feign death requires an ankh and has a 40 minute cooldown. :)

I can't advise you much on Ret pallies but you should do what you want to do. Proudfoot makes it work by absolute min/maxing and squeezing everything he's got. Tree and I make our classes work to the best it can as well. I go through alot of pots and drums to get the most I can out of my elemental shaman, so just hang in there.
(though, I would like to dabble one day as enhancement and see how that is, I did enjoy pwning warlocks on treechop...)
 
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If you take a dps spot in a raid/group you are expected to perform...simple as that. You picked a hard hill to climb because not many people will give you that chance as a ret pally. The last karazhan I ran had 6 pallies....and we were horribly low on dps...to the point that I called the raid as I couldn't find anyone to replace, you betchya, the pallies. The top dps was a mage doing 18% of the damage....the lowest 1 was a ret pally doing 3% of the damage..
 
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Azami said:
Hybrid classes are notorious for not being able to stay on par with pure DPS classes especially near end game content. Aside from perhaps itemization issues with certain classes it does logically make sense that a hybrid shouldn't be able to out DPS pure DPS classes(mages, locks, hunters, rogues).
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Mages, Locks, Hunters, and Rogues are the only non-hybrid classes...
 
I have no problem playing with Ret pallies as long as they know how to play their class. I've never played with Proudfoot but I have played with Niffty and Chinatown(when he was ret) and even with 1200-1300 spell damage on Alhana I have a hard time staying with them in dps.

Personally I have no qualms about playing with a Ret pally in my group as long as they know what their doing.
 
I think that was his point. Their only pupose in the game is to melt faces. In theory a hybrid class should not be able to out dps a dps class. It's not fair because we can heal and stuff.

But that's pure theory! Point being Proud, Azami, and I are all able to top the meters. It's impossible to say "All ret pallys suck at dps" because i've seen proud at #1 on the meters. I think the thing that is important to remember is that for hybrid classes, gear is only part of it. It really takes a lot of skill to know how to produce dps.

It's easy for a mage to get 1000 damage and mash the fireball button all day long. But if you seriously need to talk with Proud and find out what stats he's stacking, what spell cycle he's using, download mods needed, get rid of dial up, etc.
 
So Proudfoot.....
What Mods are you using, What is your typical seal/judgement spell cycle, and aura of choice
Thanks ahead of time for your input
I will look at your gear (unatainable for me:) and talent build at the armory
 
Our guild is kind of unique in that the number of pallies is rather high. I think it has to do with our guild being a Christian guild. Seems to be a lot more interest in playing a holy knight verses an evil warlock. So the largest single class in our guild is the Paladin. Which is a bit of a problem when you get into end game raiding.

When you bring an average of 4-5 pallies in every raid, the uniques of the abilities of an individual pally start to disappear. For instances, kings is a protection talent but about half the holy pallies have it too. 3% crit can be found in protection pally builds. I have seen Imp Might on holy pallies. Given that we have a large number of tankadins in the guild that can keep a couple of judgements up while still doing their primary role of tanking or off tanking you really start to dilute the need for more then one Ret pally in a raid.

I really wish they would look at adding additional auras for the ret pallies that are more applicable to the group. Sanc Aura is just to limited to ret and protection pallies as no one even counts the very distant cousin to the ret pally called the holy dps priest as viable for raiding. Add something like +hit to the Sanc Aura, cause melee hits to cause additional holy damage on hit or even add a bonus to judgement of light heals to help with all the nasty AOE damage bosses do and suddenly ret pallies are very viable additions to the melee dps group. The reason being that Sanc Aura is deep enough in the ret tree (20 points) that most pure pve builds won't be able to pick it up unlike imp crusader and might.
 
ok will now i very unhappy with ret!! =( lol
it sad when the ret pally i look up to say ret is not that good for dps!

=(
 
well from my personality ret pallies unless they are REALLY good are horrid at dps. so everyone bases it off that. it stinks to the good ret pallies but as a general thing ret pallies arent the best dps outputers
 
ROFL! I would push prot, but unless people are dedicated to gearing them up, it's not worth it. Prot pallys are for the leet few.
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There is actually some really good blue Prot Pally gear out there and most can be obtained without a huge amount of effort or a group except in a few cases. Sandric pointed me to http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ when I was gearing up Theros which is chock full of tips, gear ideas, talent help, etc.. Although Theros is still in blues overall, 3 epics total, he's over the cap for stam/def/avoidance, the only thing he lacks is spell damage but that is easily fixable if I'd get my spell damage enchant and change my weapon.

So why not push Prot pallies we have the potential to have some of the best Protection pallies on Stonemaul.
 
If you like your pally or not... is up to you, no one can "make" you hate something. It is still your choice so don't put the blame on us. Would you rather that people lie to you about the server community you are up against and tell you that you will be loved by all PuG groups all the time?

You have just about the best situation you can have as a Ret-pally on Stonemaul because you are in an awesome guild. Many people do not have this luxury are being told constantly to heal or reroll a dps class.
 
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