Why is it Ok To Kill?

[Tek7 (Legacy)]

I've never really bought into the whole "murder is wrong, but warfare is ok" thing".

I'm not saying all warfare is right. War should, of course, be a last resort. Still, if someone was planning to invade America, wouldn't a declaration of war and a gathering of troops be the necessary recourse if negotiations failed?

Do you make it a point of never playing as the terrorists in CS?

One could argue that one should do what one can to anticipate the actions of one's enemy.

REAL warfare had reasons for going to war. WWII was about stopping the tyranny of a madman. While there were some truly evil Nazis, your average member of the Wermacht or the Luftwaffe was just a guy fighting for his country.

Agreed.

You can't honestly compare a round of BF2 with historical warfare. BF2 is about the kills, pure and simple. Not for some higher ideal or purpose.

I didn't meant to imply that playing BF2 is a lofty thing, but rather it simulates a noble effort: protecting American freedoms. This is a far cry from killing prostitutes and stealing cars in Grand Theft Auto. My intent was to distinguish between violence without malice and violence for sensory pleasure and profit.

Tek, your sig shows you play a lot of Unreal Tournament. How do you justify the mindless fragging in that game?

Actually, I usually play Onslaught, which is a team-based gametype. I have my graphics settings configured so that there is no blood or gore during gameplay. I would equate playing Onslaught with playing paintball: you're "playing" at eliminating other players to complete a team objective. No one dies in the process. There's no malice involved as there's no backstory and people (ideally) make more of an effort to complete team objectives than score frags.

 

[MeridianFlight]

the bible is very vilont so i dont have a problem

The violence in the Bible is there for a reason though. It's a historical account of what actually took place.

 

[Dark Virtue]

I'm not saying all warfare is right. War should, of course, be a last resort. Still, if someone was planning to invade America, wouldn't a declaration of war and a gathering of troops be the necessary recourse if negotiations failed?

Granted, but I meant that in terms of a defense for playing violent video games.

One could argue that one should do what one can to anticipate the actions of one's enemy.

LOL, are you serious? I don't think you can learn ANYTHING about terrorists by playing CS. Can you see an Al-Qaeda member cowering behind a corner shouting "STOP SPAWN CAMPING" at US troops?

I didn't meant to imply that playing BF2 is a lofty thing, but rather it simulates a noble effort: protecting American freedoms. This is a far cry from killing prostitutes and stealing cars in Grand Theft Auto. My intent was to distinguish between violence without malice and violence for sensory pleasure and profit.

This is my point though, I don't think BF2 simulates a noble effort. You're not playing FOR a noble goal. You're playing for points, for kills. Once the round is over, what nobility was gained? Not a thing.

Actually, I usually play Onslaught, which is a team-based gametype. I have my graphics settings configured so that there is no blood or gore during gameplay. I would equate playing Onslaught with playing paintball: you're "playing" at eliminating other players to complete a team objective. No one dies in the process. There's no malice involved as there's no backstory and people (ideally) make more of an effort to complete team objectives than score frags.

May I ask why you turn the blood off? Aren't there still death animations? There may not be malice, but there is still violence isn't there?

BTW, please don't take my questions the wrong way, this isn't a personal attack, just an attempt to understand your line of thinking.

 

[Dark Virtue]

The violence in the Bible is there for a reason though.

That's debatable.

It's a historical account of what actually took place.[/QUOTE]

That's debatable too

 

[MeridianFlight]

That's debatable.

That's debatable too

, I don't think I've actually been a part of a dicussion yet in RD where an account in the Bible was disputed. Interesting stuff that always is.

Anyway, what I meant by "it's there for a reason" is you wouldn't have the complete picture of an account if say for example you just had the Israelies suddenly under Babylonian captivity without explanation. You wouldn't understand why God's people were angry at their captors. You'd look at things in a different light if you'd assumed the Babylonians wooed Israel into captivity with flowers and Nintendo Entertainment Systems.

I'm not attempting to justify the violence that occurs in the Bible, I'm just stating that it helps put the historical account (or narrative, depending on your view) in perspective.

 

[Jeff Raven]

I think the answer can be found in Tek7's signature:

"So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God." 1 Corinthians 10:31, NIV

Can you really justify the games you play as doing it for God? One could argue that isn't just the violence but the game itself that is distraction from your duty.

 

[MeridianFlight]

Once again, I find myself cheering on DV on this matter, which can only mean one thing, the apocolypse is nigh.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Once again, I find myself cheering on DV on this matter, which can only mean one thing, the apocolypse is nigh.

LOL, too funny

 

[ChickenSoup]

LOL, are you serious? I don't think you can learn ANYTHING about terrorists by playing CS. Can you see an Al-Qaeda member cowering behind a corner shouting "STOP SPAWN CAMPING" at US troops?

That's funny too... I can see them now...

Al Qaeda: n00b stop camping ugh u n00b
US trooper: bring it on, i is t3h r0x0rs
Al Qaeda: Ok bring it n00b I'll just keep respawning
US trooper: well we camp at da spawn point
Al Qaeda: oh teh noes!!!

 

[Macattak1]

There is no Excuse

I am saddened that some will try to teach you that this is OK. There is nothing glorious about online gamming, especially with killing.

I play BF2 and I know that I am better off not playing it. Frankly, I should not do it. But I am not so strong that I can make myself perfect.

The closest I would get is that it is not a danger to me. But I dont know if it is a danger for YOU. As I do not know this I can not support your desire to validate killing games as OK for You.

We are to live to the Glory of God. We all fail misserably at this. I fail it 60 times an hour at least. Others may be way better than I and others worse. But there is no way to sweeten this.

Jesus spent time with law breakers and evil people. He DID NOT partake of their evil. Jesus visisted those who were 'sick' because that is who needed Him. But He did not act the protitute while with them. He did not approve of their actions that went against the Law of His Father.

Open the Bible. I am betting that God has something to say on every page of the scriptures that would tell you that these things are wrong. We dont go and gamble in cassinos to whitness to the gamblers.

I play because I am sinfilled. I have given up things like Dungeons and Dragons, Alcohol, Cigeretts, and many other things. But it will likely be a while yet before I can give up pc games in general and especially FPS and such. But I have no doubt it will happen. THere are just too many other God Glorifying things that I could be doing in place of this.

Peace and Blessings to you. That I wont back this does not mean I wish you ill or others that may have spent great time in seeing how you may justify this.

I think you know the answer as do most here. But we have sinful flesh that just seems to Have to Have some sort of sin or it almost goes crazy.

Peace

 

[Shyfroggy]

The only real issue I can think about when it comes to playing CS would be if you were to play on some random server that allowed vulgar names and inapproiate language. However, playing on a Christian server filters all that stuff out. I like what Pastorwirl has to say about Christians playing CS...."it's our way of introducing you to Jesus Christ." I'd much rather be playing on a Christian server, with people who have the same/similar beliefs than to just play on a random server that could make CS seem like an inappropriate game.

 

[MeridianFlight]

The only real issue I can think about when it comes to playing CS would be if you were to play on some random server that allowed vulgar names and inapproiate language. However, playing on a Christian server filters all that stuff out. I like what Pastorwirl has to say about Christians playing CS...."it's our way of introducing you to Jesus Christ."

So, when you introduce them to Jesus Christ, is that before or after you take them down with a headshot?

 

[balrogdude27]

I am saddened that some will try to teach you that this is OK. There is nothing glorious about online gamming, especially with killing.

I play BF2 and I know that I am better off not playing it. Frankly, I should not do it. But I am not so strong that I can make myself perfect.

The closest I would get is that it is not a danger to me. But I dont know if it is a danger for YOU. As I do not know this I can not support your desire to validate killing games as OK for You.

We are to live to the Glory of God. We all fail misserably at this. I fail it 60 times an hour at least. Others may be way better than I and others worse. But there is no way to sweeten this.

Jesus spent time with law breakers and evil people. He DID NOT partake of their evil. Jesus visisted those who were 'sick' because that is who needed Him. But He did not act the protitute while with them. He did not approve of their actions that went against the Law of His Father.

Open the Bible. I am betting that God has something to say on every page of the scriptures that would tell you that these things are wrong. We dont go and gamble in cassinos to whitness to the gamblers.

I play because I am sinfilled. I have given up things like Dungeons and Dragons, Alcohol, Cigeretts, and many other things. But it will likely be a while yet before I can give up pc games in general and especially FPS and such. But I have no doubt it will happen. THere are just too many other God Glorifying things that I could be doing in place of this.

Peace and Blessings to you. That I wont back this does not mean I wish you ill or others that may have spent great time in seeing how you may justify this.

I think you know the answer as do most here. But we have sinful flesh that just seems to Have to Have some sort of sin or it almost goes crazy.

Peace

I have to agree in a way. I think it is OK for some people, then some people it is bad for them to play it. Like as i said in an earlier post, Alot like meat sacrificed to idols.

 

[Dark Virtue]

So, when you introduce them to Jesus Christ, is that before or after you take them down with a headshot?

LOL, ditto that Ice!

 

[Shyfroggy]

--->

So, when you introduce them to Jesus Christ, is that before or after you take them down with a headshot?

here is something to remember: I've never killed anybody in real life therefore I can't say I've ever 'taken somebody down with a headshot.' A game is a game. Nothing less, but can definately be something more if one so chooses to make it more. It is what you put into it.

 

[Dark Virtue]

here is something to remember: I've never killed anybody in real life therefore I can't say I've ever 'taken somebody down with a headshot.' A game is a game. Nothing less, but can definately be something more if one so chooses to make it more. It is what you put into it.

If a "game is a game", then why do so many people have problems with games like Grand Theft Auto's violence and sexual content?

That aside, saying virtual killing is just a game goes against what the Bible teaches...

Matt 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment.

Matt 5:27 "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Now, in light of those two verses and what they mean, how can you say it's ok to kill virtually, in a game, for entertainment?

Aren't Christians charged to be in the world, but not part of it?

 

[Tek7 (Legacy)]

Matt 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment.

The question is: Can you play video and computer games without getting angry? If you can, is it a sinful pasttime?

And if simulating violence itself constitutes sin, then that dismisses paintball as well. Had anyone considered playing paintball a sin?

 

[Dark Virtue]

The question is: Can you play video and computer games without getting angry? If you can, is it a sinful pasttime?

Maybe you're asking the wrong question.

And if simulating violence itself constitutes sin, then that dismisses paintball as well. Had anyone considered playing paintball a sin?

Perhaps, then, it IS.

 

[Shyfroggy]

If a "game is a game", then why do so many people have problems with games like Grand Theft Auto's violence and sexual content?

That aside, saying virtual killing is just a game goes against what the Bible teaches...

Matt 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment.

Matt 5:27 "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Now, in light of those two verses and what they mean, how can you say it's ok to kill virtually, in a game, for entertainment?

Aren't Christians charged to be in the world, but not part of it?

Grand Theft auto and playing CS on a Christian server are very different - really no comparrison there.

As far as 'virtual killing going against what the Bible teaches" ... while there is much scriptual reference for killing in real life I have yet to find a Bible that specifically mentions "virtual killing"...

With regards to Matt 5:21 and 5:27....I really see no comparison - again I'll remind you I have not 'murdered' anybody.....

And umm here's another idea - some people don't just play counterstrike to kill people, for some it becomes fellowship among people....there have been many times when playing counterstrike that we might start a discussion regarding The Almighty....

Playing CS is just that - playing. I don't see anybody getting killed in real life, and I see no murders being committed by those people that I play with.

 

[Tek7 (Legacy)]

Maybe you're asking the wrong question.

I'm asking a question. There is certainly more than one question to ask in addressing this topic and all questions should be considered. I am not meaning to tackle this argument all at once, but rather to address one issue at a time. I feel that exploring the intent of the player is a proper starting point for discussion.

That being said, I reiterate my previous question: If you play video and computer games without getting angry, is it a sinful pasttime?

Perhaps, then, it IS.

Not having much experience with paintball (and not wanting to stray too far off-topic), I recommend those concerned with whether or not paintball is inherently sinful read the Christian Paintball Player's Association FAQ, specifically answer #1. Even those not interested in paintball may find the FAQ an intriguing read as many points in answer #1 relate to our current discussion.