Unequal Taxation

Odale

Odale

Active Member
What does the Bible say about unequal taxation between all of the people in a given nation (obviously ours)?

Do you take the money from people who legitimately can't afford to be taxed the same or at all or do you hold the people who create jobs to the same standards as everyone else?

Article from University of California at Santa Cruz.

(Yes I did get this question from watching The Daily Show on August 18th, if you were wondering.)
 
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Render to Caeser. . .

Pretty sure God doesn't declare what nations should do with taxes. He merely says we are to pay them.
 
Agree with the above on the rendering to Caesar.

As a college student with kids, I didn't pay any income taxes (well in wages) but got it all back come tax timeyou including extra. Now that I have a job, I do pay taxes which makes sense. Taxes in the states are low, but where they are high the government pays for health care and higher ed.
 
I think Odale's specifically asking should he support voting higher un-equal percentage taxes on the rich, the supposed top one percent or whatever. The closest biblical comparison I can think of is tithe which, to my knowledge, does not ask for the rich to pay more. I will defer to those who know more about tithe though. It's true Christ told the rich guy to sell all he owned and follow after him but giving all is called for by everyone regardless of wealth.

I skimmed your link Odale (tldr all) but I don't find it relevant to the moral question. As long as the rich made the money legally/morally I don't see "how" they got it or the fact they maintain it as an excuse to take it. Now if they made/maintain it legally but not morally then the flawed laws need to be changed but that still does not give the government an excuse to take it after the fact, it was earned under the government's approval. That's like the government telling you something is legal in a race then after you win they change their mind and take your prize away anyway. Also that article did not appear to cover the obvious point that whether the rich are inheriting it or worked through college or whatever at some point someone had to of earned money. Wealth doesn't start at the "I'm so rich it maintains itself point". I don't find being able to give your children an inheritance dishonest (nothing against inheritance in the prodigal son and he wasted it). Also I would not assume all the rich use unfair means to maintain their wealth. To use that as a justification to tax all rich people is unfair in itself. Two wrongs don't make a right.

For the record I am for closing any unfair loopholes but against charging the rich a higher percentage simply because we can. If your income is below what is needed to live, as charity, I believe in them being totally exempt from taxes but above that everyone gets an equal opportunity. We could also debate the effects of a higher tax, that it effects more than the rich or talk about how the rich are already paying most of the taxes but in the moral light of it I find it irrelevant. I'm not suggesting Christians not pay a rich tax should it come to be (Patriot's quote here) I just don't support it. Though compared to homosexuality and abortion there are more important voting issues than economic. Apply "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" to our economy. What does it profit men (a nation) to be prosperous if we only use that prosperity for sin. It's funny when the question of personal welfare comes up to the voting masses suddenly other moral issues become secondary...

I was under the impression God sees us equally. It's a bit of a stretch but as such I thought America was centered around seeing us equally as well. Equal rights not just for the poor to become successful but for the rich to enjoy that success.
 
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Unfortunately as far as I understand, the bible is surprisingly LENIENT on oppressive regimes...
Depending on the place you live in and your interpretation of 'oppressive', there isn't much in the bible to say you should start a revolt. In fact many passages against it. Which is something that doesn't go well with me considering I'm rooting for the N.Korean and Libyan dissidents... as well as get really happy when I see the weak successfully put the heat on an oppressive government.
 
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I posted the first link and I thought it had additional information - it doesn't, sorry about that. The link I posted is misleading, I am not talking about who holds what percentage of the market's assets - I am talking about unequal taxation.

My initial post was regarding the disparity between what "the rich" pay in taxes compared to the middle class, regardless of how they receive(d) their wealth.

Here are Warren Buffetts' opinions. He states that on average 15% of his taxable income is taxed, whereas other people's income is taxed as high as 35-40%.

So, here is my question once more, what does the Bible say about rich people being taxed 15% and everyone else being taxed more than double that?
 
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Icthus said:
<senses this thread about to go way off topic>
<grabs popcorn>
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Just for a second. And I'll use it later.

silverleaf said:
Unfortunately as far as I understand, the bible is surprisingly LENIENT on oppressive regimes...
Depending on the place you live in and your interpretation of 'oppressive', there isn't much in the bible to say you should start a revolt. In fact many passages against it.
Click to expand...


Daniel 2:21a And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings:


Psalms 75:7 But God is the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another.

Even repressive regimes are set up by God for His reason. We don't understand but that doesn't make it wrong.



Now, back on track.

Odale said:
So, here is my question once more, what does the Bible say about rich people being taxed 15% and everyone else being taxed more than double that?
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21They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.

If God sets up the governments and the government sets the tax rate....
 
Wolfeman said:
Now, back on track.



21They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.

If God sets up the governments and the government sets the tax rate....
Click to expand...

Are you trying to say that our government is perfect or infallible? That verse coupled with that logic seems incorrect to me.
 
No... I"m saying that God set's up whomever He will. We get what we deserve.


2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Everything He does is to bring us closer to Him.


Besides, Government was at the request of the people. God gave us government because we requested it, not because we needed it or it was fair.
 
Wolfeman said:
Just for a second. And I'll use it later.




Daniel 2:21a And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings:


Psalms 75:7 But God is the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another.

Even repressive regimes are set up by God for His reason. We don't understand but that doesn't make it wrong.



Now, back on track.



21They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.

If God sets up the governments and the government sets the tax rate....
Click to expand...

Ouch ouch ouch... King James....

You may now continue your conversation.

I still hold to my original statement. The Bible does not speak directly to the American Tax Code.
 
Icthus said:
Ouch ouch ouch... King James....
Click to expand...

We covered this already. I'll take pure truth I might have to work to read over watered down easy reading any day. And that is all I have to say on that.

Icthus said:
I still hold to my original statement. The Bible does not speak directly to the American Tax Code.
Click to expand...

It barely speaks of America at all. And that's just a maybe. So I go back to my original argument. God sets up who he wants. Whether it's to punish us and bring us back to Him or if it's to reward us and show us off. It's up to us to obey those who have the rule over us. Fair and just or not. It's also up to us to pray for those same people.
 
The modern tax system isn't like the tax system of old. So agree with Odale...
Oh but then
21They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.
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Ok, so you HAVE to pay them. The question is, is it just?

And I believe excessive taxes/taxing the common man more than the rich classifies under oppression that's why I brought up that reference.

Now
Daniel 2:21a And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings:
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Look back on history, it was people who disposed kings most of the time. But then we have the 'don't break the law' passage. Question is, "don't break the law" even when "the world needs change"? We'd still be stuck under absolutism if not for people "breaking the law". Tax rates would therefore be like 90%.
Now, the common man paying 30-40% and the rich getting tax breaks sounds not quite as bad in comparison, but that does not make the oppression any less wrong.
 
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Wolfeman said:
We covered this already. I'll take pure truth I might have to work to read over watered down easy reading any day. And that is all I have to say on that.
Click to expand...

Since this has been covered we will not get into it. I will only point out that to say the KJV is truth is simply opinion and not fact. And to call updated translations watered down is uninformed research. Please refrain from such statements of absolute for the purpose of Christian unity.
 
silverleaf said:
The modern tax system isn't like the tax system of old. So agree with Odale...
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Could the real issue for all of us be our love for money? I want mine?

Where possibly what is of more value is understanding God's love for us and care no matter our circumstances?

I do have issues with oppression of the poor by the wicked. That is more of a compassion issue for me than a justice one.

My understanding of Christ's teachings on money and the poor would be that we should not be so concerned with money and earthly items. We should focus on helping to poor in their struggle with real bread and water.

Could that be we should all rise up and demand change in our government process? That is a more difficult issue.
 
Could the real issue for all of us be our love for money? I want mine?
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The issue is definitely the love for money for those high earners who find every way possible to evade doing their 'national service', those 'evil' CEOs and such, but the world will always have this. For the common man, it is more of getting by and not getting foreclosured.

Where possibly what is of more value is understanding God's love for us and care no matter our circumstances?
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Yeah, God will still love you after they've taken your house.

We should focus on helping to poor in their struggle with real bread and water.
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This can only happen, on a national level, by policy changes.
Could that be we should all rise up and demand change in our government process? That is a more difficult issue.
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My point exactly, overthrowing the government is of course a last resort, but when does "for the greater good" and "starting a war for the love of my fellow man (metro reference)" justify the "obey the law" command? The American revolutionists based it on that oppression is against God and they were doing God's will by establishing justice kinda logic I believe (NOT in the USA this is off google).
When they take your house and deprive you of basic necessities while sipping champagne at their private islands, that is pretty much the definition of greed and oppression eh? Jesus condemned such behavior, something about scheming to take the properties of widows and stuff.
 
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