Things that God did not Create

You guys are kinda heading down a rabbit-trail that I didn't intend. The whole point was that God created man with the ability to disobey Him, as evidenced by all of human history but more specifically the beginning of Genesis. I'm not quite sure why Ben Masada is arguing against this.
 
This is insanity. I smell a troll.... from what i read, you (ben) think of yourself as an all knowing supernatural being. Your not. You keep talking about logic, but your logic leads to many contradictions. So lemme think.... God creates man.... man disobeys God in his freewill and thus sins... ??????? So wait.... Man created sin?!?!? Man did not create sin.


Also, Satan is real. Satan is not some name used to name the evil inside man. Jesus/God talk with Satan many times throughout the bible.

O and because your going to bring up your crap about the Bible being written in man's perspective, God told the authors of each book what to write. He then told us that the Bible/Word is a big thing in being Christians. So.... Hmm.... Lets see.... In the bible, Satan is a being (of some sort). If God led the authors of the bible to write what they did... the only way that Satan wouldn't be a being, and would just be our human sinful nature, is if for some odd reason, God decided that we didn't need to know that bit of info.... which you never know about God. Maybe he would have reason to do so...


IF you think i'm wrong, you better give me scripture reference to back yourself up.
 
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Jeez, people, give up the debate. How you can even try to win an argument with a man who has been philosophically trained to apply the macro glasses of metaphorical interpretation is beyond me!

Beyond me!
 
Lazarus said:
Jeez, people, give up the debate. How you can even try to win an argument with a man who has been philosophically trained to apply the macro glasses of metaphorical interpretation is beyond me!

Beyond me!
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QFT...

Have fun Ben. I pray the lord will help you :) I am also sorry for anything i said that may offend you.
 
Lazarus, your sarcasm is not helpful nor constructive at this moment.
 
Not to make waves, but I do find your theory flawed. In to say that God did not create Energy, but it was a by-product of God's creation. Let's use a K.I.S.S. example:

I want to roast a marshmallow, so I create a log fire to heat my marshmallow. The fire also gives off smoke and light. Is that to say that I didn't create the smoke or light. A by-product is still a creation. So, if God created matter and in turn had a by-product of energy, then my engineering mind would say that God created energy. And to be totally fair Matter is Energy. That log I made a fire with had energy or it would not have burned.

Ben Masada said:
God did not create energy. Energy is an accident of matter. A by-product of God's creation.
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Durruck said:
I think that's the essence of free will. In every decision we face, we have the option to serve one of two masters. Righteousness has one set of related options, rooted in loving God and others. Sin has a whole lot of options, generally rooted in loving yourself. You're free to choose whichever option you want.
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Lloren said:
I'll bite, but I shouldn't. This would imply that man COULD wholly be righteous and in RIGHT standing with God because he has the capacity to choose the option. The Bible doesn't teach this. We have the illusion of option, but often both of them are sin. We are enslaved to sin without Christ.


By God's redemption we now have His Spirit which enables us now to choose righteousness, but our flesh and will are yet in bondage to the body of sin (see Romans 7)
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Fair enough. I suppose I had equated perfection in Righteousness with following Christ (James 1:17), and our attempts to make the correct choices would be rooted in the Spirit and following the command to be perfect, as God is perfect (compilation of 2 Cor 7:1, Hebrews 10:14, Matthew 5:48). While it may not be possible this side of the grave, it is what we're told to strive for.

Prior to being saved, our best works are like filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6), so I agree, it is only through God that we can do this at all. But if being saved was enough, we wouldn't need to pick up our crosses daily (Matthew 10:38, Matthew 16:24, Mark 8:34, Mark 9:23). We have to intentionally choose to shoulder our burden and stop sinning.

That's what I was getting at. Shame on me for not clarifying along the way and quoting the Scripture that I was basing my statement on.
 
Let me elaborate.

Gravity for instance, anything will naturally fall to the largest (by far) object and smaller bodies modify the fall path, and in making the universe, there is no need for God to create a separate mechanic which makes things fall a certain way. Did God create gravity? Yes and no. Creating the universe = creating gravity, no need to modify anything though. Or maybe it was already taken into account when stuff was first made and so no need to modify further. Unless you're saying naturally things fell AWAY from the earth and we'd be floating around by natural laws of physics, and there was a need to create a special thing to make us sink.

Also, doesn't matter, so long as you believe God is in control, I don't care if you take things literally (7 days) or figuratively (7 acts) so long as you ain't saying the Bible is incorrect. I'm not going to support one view as more 'correct' over the other, I believe a mix of both.

Therefore in closing, God created everything, but how is up to debate. He did create gravity, sin, time, and every thing that is not a thing that allow us lesser beings to wrap our minds around how the universe works but perhaps not directly. Since gravity wouldn't exist without any object at all, in creating something out of nothing, gravity was created - or not.

I still can't grasp the concept of what happened BEFORE day/act 1 in the bible though. Maybe because my mind is wrapped on finite things, and not on eternal things. Need a new brain to understand that.
 
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Maybe on some level those things, like sin, where there's debate over whether or not God created it can be viewed like this:

I work as a software developer. The computer I use to do my work is owned by the company I work for. The time I spend doing the work is paid for by the company. The Internet connection, power and any other resources I use to accomplish my tasks are all owned or paid for by the company I work for. Because of this, the company is the rightful owner of whatever software I produce while making use of those resources.

So in a sense, even if a person originates an idea, a piece of work, art, literature, even sin, on some level it is still "owned" by Heavenly Father because while we may have initiated it ourselves, it was all done using resources and materials created by Him.

...if that makes any sense.
 
So in a sense, even if a person originates an idea, a piece of work, art, literature, even sin, on some level it is still "owned" by Heavenly Father because while we may have initiated it ourselves, it was all done using resources and materials created by Him.
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QFT. This.
Everything comes from God, directly or indirectly, since he existed before anything else. How that could be possible I don't know, just as baked as everyone. So if sin/gravity/time/insert vague concept here is created by God it's yes and no, they exist in the created world, therefore as God created the universe which created these concepts...

Ok gotta stop thinking my head hurts.
 
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