The Microchip and the MARK of the Beast!

[Durruck]

To answer your question, DV, the scenario in the Left Behind series is just that... a scenario. The authors stated somewhere on their website once that they didn't feel that's how it would really happen, but an example of how it *could* happen.

As for people getting to the point where they're all using the same money, etc? It's already starting. Look at Europe. There are no Liras, Drachmas, or any other old currency used there anymore. Everyone uses Euros. They've eliminated trade exchanges, standardized markets throughout an entire region. Most see this as a very beneficial move.... and other areas are working towards standardized currencies. While I won't step forward and say that this will be the "beginning of the end", I won't rule out that it's leading down the path towards the Second Coming.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Well, look at the world today DV. Does security look good with credit cards and pin numbers for another 10 years? No. Identity theft is like a walk in the park nowadays man! It's simple, I can just reach my cell phone over some dudes shoulder and CLICK, I got me some cash. TONS of people have already got the chip and they love the idea of their own personal data implanted into them. I agree, it has great financial benefits and security, but the fact of the matter is, the government will have too much control of the people by this. The cashless society isn't something you want to live in. They already announced that if you don't have the chip, you're the bad guy and they will most likely arrest you and shove you in an espestus-filled prison like they did in New York in Pier 92. The thing is, they won't FORCE you to take this mark, they want you to want it! Makes sense right, in the Bible it says the Anti-christ will take the world through political power and false 'peace and harmony', not force!

Here is an interesting video that raises a few questions like, why are they there? What are they doing? What are they preparing for?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=71Jux68F_AQ

Well, they are preparing for urban warfare, you walk outside your house and they are going to frisk you down for weapons and search your car and your house warantlessly. Thanks to the Patriot Act II, America has lost privacy to the FBI, CIA, Secret Service, and the Military. They can tap your phones, computers, anything now. You are free to look around YouTube, some of it may be mush, some may be good.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7a9Syi12RJo&mode=related&search=

At the end of this video, the guy pretty much says what they did. Really.



I'm not sure if it is mentioned in the Left Behind books because I personally have never read them. Someone else may answer that one.

MODS - Can you please check out the video? My firewall will not allow me access to the site which has made me curious. Gen

Armandus, you're putting the cart before the horse.

You're claiming these chips are the mark of the beast, but there's no beast yet to issue a mark.

Unless, of course, you believe that the beast already exists.

As I stated before, you can't have the mark of the beast prior to the existence of the beast.

 

[Dark Virtue]

To answer your question, DV, the scenario in the Left Behind series is just that... a scenario. The authors stated somewhere on their website once that they didn't feel that's how it would really happen, but an example of how it *could* happen.

As for people getting to the point where they're all using the same money, etc? It's already starting. Look at Europe. There are no Liras, Drachmas, or any other old currency used there anymore. Everyone uses Euros. They've eliminated trade exchanges, standardized markets throughout an entire region. Most see this as a very beneficial move.... and other areas are working towards standardized currencies. While I won't step forward and say that this will be the "beginning of the end", I won't rule out that it's leading down the path towards the Second Coming.

I understand that the Left Behind series only called out a scenario, my question was what this scenario was. I haven't read the books, so I am curious as how they covered this topic.

Have you read them? Can you help me out?

 

[Durruck]

Ah, certainly. I misunderstood your original comment.

Here is the extremely condensed version. Please keep in mind that it's been several years since I read these, so I may make some mistakes of the general plotline.

A fellow named Carpathia is the anti-christ. He has powers of persuasion, mind control, etc. He manages to convince a bunch of people that he's good, gets into a position of power (UN President, or something similar, I think). He convinces the world that they should demilitarize and form regions. Eventually it leads to a one-world government, with one monatary system.

The Mark starts as a pride thing, IIRC - if you're a supporter of Carpathia, you take his mark to show that you're a supporter of his "peace", etc. Eventually, through a series of changes to the "system", people are forced to take the mark, or are labeled as a rebel. To assure that none of the rebels have any rights, you have to take a mark of your region on your head or hand, in a visible location. The mark gives you the right to purchase goods and resources. Obviously anyone without a mark is taken to a containment center where they are either forced to take the mark, or die as a criminal.

Anyone that is a Christian and sees what's going on refuses the mark and is forced into hiding. Any of them caught eventually die, typically in front of cheering mobs of the marked, by firing squad or guillotine.

And of course, all this happens after the rapture, so all the people that are Christians are already gone when the whole thing starts.... The Christians that went through the whole scenario were those that knew about Christianity, but didn't follow it before the rapture - which left a LOT of people trying to figure out what to do in a very short period of time.

Anyway, I know it was very abridged, but I hope it gets the central plotline down. The parts of the book that included Carpathia's rise to power and subsequent marking of the people was a fairly substantial portion of the first few books. I know that nobody would take it if I was elected President of My Neighborhood, and started asking people to take a mark proving they lived in my area. Please understand that the books protrayed these events as happening as many many many small changes over a year or two.... not an immediate change.

 

[Strong Fortress]

I AM sitting on the fence! That's what atheism means! I don't enough information to make an educated choice. You say that I lack wisdom, but I refuse to make a decision based on incomplete data.

How, pray tell, am I not being wise?

Which is the wiser? Is it wiser to make no decision because all of the evidence is not there? or is it wiser to make the leap of faith needed before it is too late? There is a point in which a decision has to be made. To make no decision is not what you think it is. It is deciding not to accept God. God does not give us three choices: Believe in me, Don't believe in be, or Just don't decide. He gives us only 2 choices. We must choose before we die or Jesus comes again. The 2 choices are: Believe in me or Don't Believe in me. It is Black and White. Since you are trying to choose an option that does not exist, it must by default fall into one of the set 2 options. If you do not accept God, even if you do not feel you have rejected him, you have rejected him.

 

[Strong Fortress]

What about Lojak? Isn't that along the same lines. Sure, I'm responsible for my car, but if someone steals it, it's nice to know the chip is there.



Doesn't that seem just a LITTLE far fetched in our current age?

It is not far-fetched to say this about the anti-christ (NO matter what "age" we may be in). The Bible is constant no matter how the world may change. It tells us that when the anti-christ arrises, he will require everyone to take the mark of the beast (although i can't imagine him calling it that). Those that take it will swear allegiance to him. Those that do not, will be killed. We do not know exactly what the mark of the beast will be except that it will be on the hand or the forehead. The Bible is certain about this: If you take the mark of the beast, there is no turning back. You have forfeited and rejected your gift of grace and ticket into Heaven.

 

[Zeena]

I'd like to relate a story I saw posted in the newspaper not too long ago;

A Christian man walked into a lion's den saying "God will protect me! I do not fear the lion's!" And was mauled to death!

I think this is the general stance of Christians who profess Christ as thier Saviour but refuse to submit to Him, so suffering in likeness until Christ should be formed in them.. They know that Christ lives in them, and He does, but in thier minds-eye they see only the world and not Jesus, for they refuse to grant Him the highest place in thier hearts.. They have seen Him, at one time, but have since turned away to thier own devices..Sad, but the reality for I would dare say most Christians.

As time marches on these Christians not only take a stance against evil-deeds and doers, but proclaim in public places, to make thier cause known as that of the Lord..

This is not the way of the Lord, for He did not revile when He was reviled, and when persecuted He opened not His mouth!

I can easily see how the crusades could start ALL OVER AGAIN, if it were not for God's Holy Spirit interviening on man's behalf..

The Muslim society has, as a united front displayed a disdain for Christianity as a whole, and made thier point know they will fight with violence whosoever should oppose thier sacred "Mohammed"'..

This being said, as well as the selfer-Christian stance, may very well cause a real Holy War, one that isn't just lobsided..

Pray that God interviens!

Salt and Light yO!

 

[Dark Virtue]

Ah, certainly. I misunderstood your original comment.

Here is the extremely condensed version. Please keep in mind that it's been several years since I read these, so I may make some mistakes of the general plotline.

Thanks!

A fellow named Carpathia is the anti-christ. He has powers of persuasion, mind control, etc. He manages to convince a bunch of people that he's good, gets into a position of power (UN President, or something similar, I think). He convinces the world that they should demilitarize and form regions. Eventually it leads to a one-world government, with one monatary system.

Keep in mind that I have never even cracked open one of these books and that I am judging them purely on a literary level since they are works of fiction.

Isn't this idea just a TAD farfetched? How does ONE person convince the world to demilatarize, especially countries like North Korea and China? I guess you would have to chalk it up to his "powers", because I don't see another way.

Another thing is, given the state of the world today, with conspiracy theorists left and right, wouldn't an antichrist's rise to power set off warning bells across the world fueled by the internet?

The Mark starts as a pride thing, IIRC - if you're a supporter of Carpathia, you take his mark to show that you're a supporter of his "peace", etc. Eventually, through a series of changes to the "system", people are forced to take the mark, or are labeled as a rebel. To assure that none of the rebels have any rights, you have to take a mark of your region on your head or hand, in a visible location. The mark gives you the right to purchase goods and resources. Obviously anyone without a mark is taken to a containment center where they are either forced to take the mark, or die as a criminal.

What, specifically, was the mark?

Anyone that is a Christian and sees what's going on refuses the mark and is forced into hiding. Any of them caught eventually die, typically in front of cheering mobs of the marked, by firing squad or guillotine.

Were there no nonChristians that stood up to Carpathia? How are nonChristians, or nonbelievers, portrayed in the books?

And of course, all this happens after the rapture, so all the people that are Christians are already gone when the whole thing starts.... The Christians that went through the whole scenario were those that knew about Christianity, but didn't follow it before the rapture - which left a LOT of people trying to figure out what to do in a very short period of time.

I don't get this either. Is the rest of the world moronic idiots? In the light of all these happenings, the rapture, etc, wouldn't the light go on in people's heads? HELLO, I guess the Bible WAS right after all. Sounds like a pretty simple, clear cut case of dropping to your knees.

Anyway, I know it was very abridged, but I hope it gets the central plotline down. The parts of the book that included Carpathia's rise to power and subsequent marking of the people was a fairly substantial portion of the first few books. I know that nobody would take it if I was elected President of My Neighborhood, and started asking people to take a mark proving they lived in my area. Please understand that the books protrayed these events as happening as many many many small changes over a year or two.... not an immediate change.

The changes are still pretty evident though. I'm still left wondering.

Thanks again for the info!

 

[Dark Virtue]

Which is the wiser? Is it wiser to make no decision because all of the evidence is not there? or is it wiser to make the leap of faith needed before it is too late? There is a point in which a decision has to be made. To make no decision is not what you think it is. It is deciding not to accept God. God does not give us three choices: Believe in me, Don't believe in be, or Just don't decide. He gives us only 2 choices. We must choose before we die or Jesus comes again. The 2 choices are: Believe in me or Don't Believe in me. It is Black and White. Since you are trying to choose an option that does not exist, it must by default fall into one of the set 2 options. If you do not accept God, even if you do not feel you have rejected him, you have rejected him.

Hmmm, I'm not exactly sure you understand the notion of wisdom.

You're telling me that it's WISER to believe in something that I have no evidence of, no reason to believe in and no rationale to support this choice. How is that wise?

All you did was slap a thick coat of paint on Pascal's Wager. At it's most simplistic, wisdom can be defined as "good sense". It is NOT good sense to believe in something without sufficient evidence, no matter what it is.

Sorry, I'll stick with the third option. That of intellectual honesty, the lack of a belief in your god or any other god for that matter.

I find myself quoting Thomas Jefferson over and over again, "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."

That is precisely what you want me to do, make a choice based on nothing more than fear. Wisdom steadies my hand, integrity gives me the strength not to bend.

 

[Dark Virtue]

It is not far-fetched to say this about the anti-christ (NO matter what "age" we may be in). The Bible is constant no matter how the world may change. It tells us that when the anti-christ arrises, he will require everyone to take the mark of the beast (although i can't imagine him calling it that). Those that take it will swear allegiance to him. Those that do not, will be killed. We do not know exactly what the mark of the beast will be except that it will be on the hand or the forehead. The Bible is certain about this: If you take the mark of the beast, there is no turning back. You have forfeited and rejected your gift of grace and ticket into Heaven.

I suggest you straighten out a few of your fellow Christians then. They are suggesting that the "mark" exists before the arrival of the beast. According to what you just said, that can't be so.

I still fail to comprehend how, in this learned day and age, something like this could happen without setting off a ton of red flags.

 

[Hmmmm]

I doubt a microchip credit card is the "mark" of the beast.

 

[Armandus]

Ummm...

I doubt a microchip credit card is the "mark" of the beast.

No one can buy or sell without it, we're at a technological stage in which it is possible unless we actually get a tatoo which I HIGHLY doubt anyone would agree on getting. That's too controversial considering the holocaust. And it's not a credit card, did you read the actual post?

The implanted microchip will store data information such as:
-Fingerprint
-Footprint
-Eyescan (retna)
-D.N.A. Genotype
-Financial Status
-Personal History

The chip IS YOU!

Right hand...forehead....Bible.

 

[aka Ash]

I suggest you straighten out a few of your fellow Christians then. They are suggesting that the "mark" exists before the arrival of the beast. According to what you just said, that can't be so.

I still fail to comprehend how, in this learned day and age, something like this could happen without setting off a ton of red flags.

I often wondered that too until recently.
But I watched a movie called "The Visitation". It's about false prophets, and people followed this false prophet because he could do "miracles". they were just happy to get rid of their ailment or missery, they never questioned where it came from truly. And they began to worship the man.
Don't people do that nowadays? Worship other people? And would do whatever they asked? And imagine if he/she could perform "miracles", how much more powerful would they be?


PS.
And having the mark of the beast before the beast is like putting the cart before the horse.

 

[Durruck]

Isn't this idea just a TAD farfetched? How does ONE person convince the world to demilatarize, especially countries like North Korea and China? I guess you would have to chalk it up to his "powers", because I don't see another way.

Specific countries like NK or China are not addressed, but there were generalized things that lead to even peace between Israel and the rest of the middle east. It seems that even the authors saw such countries as problematic. I may need to re-read to see exactly how they addressed these issues.

As for his mind control powers.. he basically was able to implant ideas into any non-believer. Since the Bible tells us that the devil and his minions have no place in us, believers were able to remember what really happened.

Another thing is, given the state of the world today, with conspiracy theorists left and right, wouldn't an antichrist's rise to power set off warning bells across the world fueled by the internet?

Again, all the people that already strongly believed in Jesus, God, the devil, etc... were already gone. Some of the people saw the signs of what was happening and immediately figured out they were wrong in their disbelief.

But the Bible also tells us that some have hardened their hearts, and no matter the evidence, they'll never believe until Jesus decends from the heavens to take back his earth.

What, specifically, was the mark?

Again, I could be mistaken, but I believe it to be some form of implant that permanently marred the skin.

Were there no nonChristians that stood up to Carpathia? How are nonChristians, or nonbelievers, portrayed in the books?

I don't get this either. Is the rest of the world moronic idiots? In the light of all these happenings, the rapture, etc, wouldn't the light go on in people's heads? HELLO, I guess the Bible WAS right after all. Sounds like a pretty simple, clear cut case of dropping to your knees.

At that point, you'd think so. But I guess some people are so set in their ways that no amount of proof will be enough. Even if 5 or 6 million people were to suddenly vanish from the earth, all at the exact same time.

As above, once Carpathia got up and going... either the nonbelievers had figured out Carpathia was the antichrist and joined the believers, or they were sucked in by his lies.

 

[Zeena]

I often wondered that too until recently.
But I watched a movie called "The Visitation". It's about false prophets, and people followed this false prophet because he could do "miracles". they were just happy to get rid of their ailment or missery, they never questioned where it came from truly. And they began to worship the man.
Don't people do that nowadays? Worship other people? And would do whatever they asked? And imagine if he/she could perform "miracles", how much more powerful would they be?


PS.
And having the mark of the beast before the beast is like putting the cart before the horse.

Yes, yes and YES!
And, I might add, let him who has wisdom (JESUS!) decipher the number of the beast..

For it is the number of a man!

 

[Dark Virtue]

I often wondered that too until recently.
But I watched a movie called "The Visitation". It's about false prophets, and people followed this false prophet because he could do "miracles". they were just happy to get rid of their ailment or missery, they never questioned where it came from truly. And they began to worship the man.
Don't people do that nowadays? Worship other people? And would do whatever they asked? And imagine if he/she could perform "miracles", how much more powerful would they be?

But again, this is a work of fiction, is it not?

I will, however, admit that there are those who are easily duped by so called "miracles" and by charismatic charlatans. Otherwise, Benny Hinn would be out on the street.

BUT, I think that these kind of people are in the minority. I don't think this scenario can work outside the realm of fiction.

PS.
And having the mark of the beast before the beast is like putting the cart before the horse.

Thank you!

 

[Dark Virtue]

Specific countries like NK or China are not addressed, but there were generalized things that lead to even peace between Israel and the rest of the middle east. It seems that even the authors saw such countries as problematic. I may need to re-read to see exactly how they addressed these issues.

I'd be interested to know how he took control over countries like that. I guess there WAS a reason the authors glossed over it.

As for his mind control powers.. he basically was able to implant ideas into any non-believer. Since the Bible tells us that the devil and his minions have no place in us, believers were able to remember what really happened.

So basically it comes down to worldwide brainwashing? Even in a work of fiction, don't you think this is a BIT outlandish?

Again, all the people that already strongly believed in Jesus, God, the devil, etc... were already gone. Some of the people saw the signs of what was happening and immediately figured out they were wrong in their disbelief.

This was my point...but only SOME people? How moronic was the rest of the world?

But the Bible also tells us that some have hardened their hearts, and no matter the evidence, they'll never believe until Jesus decends from the heavens to take back his earth.

Two points here...

1) The majority of nonChristians are so because of a lack of evidence. This scenario gives them plenty. As an intelligent, reasonable, logical person, do you think, in the face of all this, that I would still be flying the banner of atheism? I may be stubborn, but I'm not stupid.

2) Let's not forget that God has a history of hardening people's hearts to prove his point.

Again, I could be mistaken, but I believe it to be some form of implant that permanently marred the skin.

I suppose that makes sense.

At that point, you'd think so. But I guess some people are so set in their ways that no amount of proof will be enough. Even if 5 or 6 million people were to suddenly vanish from the earth, all at the exact same time.

Sorry, but this is EXTEREMELY far fetched for reasons I have stated earlier.

As above, once Carpathia got up and going... either the nonbelievers had figured out Carpathia was the antichrist and joined the believers, or they were sucked in by his lies.

How did some people escape the brainwashing mind power?

 

[Hmmmm]

No one can buy or sell without it, we're at a technological stage in which it is possible unless we actually get a tatoo which I HIGHLY doubt anyone would agree on getting. That's too controversial considering the holocaust. And it's not a credit card, did you read the actual post?

The implanted microchip will store data information such as:
-Fingerprint
-Footprint
-Eyescan (retna)
-D.N.A. Genotype
-Financial Status
-Personal History

The chip IS YOU!

Right hand...forehead....Bible.

that may be true, but have you even considered that it may just be a coincidence and not be the mark, the bible is talking about. I mean seriously consider this. A few unknowing born again christians innocently get this microchip just so they can buy stuff.. i mean there is no harm in it right? You don't have to bow down to the anti-christ or anything...But i find it quite unfair if they'll have to go to hell because of it..

I think its a different mark the bible is talking about.

 

[Durruck]

Sadly, without a re-read, I can't answer most of your questions. It's just been too long since I read these books, and couldn't do them any justice.

As for most people not believing due to a lack of proof? I have some very stubborn co-workers that just refuse to believe that they're not in complete control of their destinies, refuse to believe in a higher power, refuse to believe in intelligent design.

Simply put, they would rather believe in nothingness than the possibility that something more *might* exist. They are true agnostics, in every sense of the word. If 6 million people in the neighborhood just vanished, they'd chalk it up to a spacial anomoly, spontaneous combustion, or aliens.

 

[aka Ash]

that may be true, but have you even considered that it may just be a coincidence and not be the mark, the bible is talking about. I mean seriously consider this. A few unknowing born again christians innocently get this microchip just so they can buy stuff.. i mean there is no harm in it right? You don't have to bow down to the anti-christ or anything...But i find it quite unfair if they'll have to go to hell because of it..

I think its a different mark the bible is talking about.

Which is why the mark MUST follow the beast!!!
It can't be the beast's mark without a beast, can it?