Separation of Church and State

W

www_rlxc_com

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Lets get some feedback. Is it right and Godly to have a seperation of church and state. WHen put bluntly it is saying Jesus shall having nothing to say about our government. I have heard many so called christians argue for this point. To me I do not understand how someone could commit there life to follow christ, but just not want him to be in there government. yes there are those who do not beleive in Christ, but shouldnt we fight to try getting them to beleive? What good does it do to let them have there free choice when they go to hell for it.

Here is what I propose, why dont some of us christians go and run for simple small office`s. Like School board and such. Most school districts only have 6 members on there school board, and those 6 members have the power to choose how much evolution is taught, what type of guest speakers come in. They decide if "safe sex" or abstanance is tought in school. We are the army of God, so lets go start a fight. I am just interested if anyone would take up this challenge?
 
it's a tough battle since they kicked God out of the schools and laws. Either homs schooling or sending my kids to Christian school
 
The only thing they kicked out of the public school was the teaching of specific religious teachings. Basicly only teaching that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven.

As a school board you could have a compairative Religion class, where you have pastors and such"guest speakers" come in and share there views. You can have people from "Exodus" ministry (it is a ministry of all Ex-Gay people who have turned there life and sexuality over to God) That would sure hurt the Homosexual agenda and there teaching of "They were born that way" if you had someone who was once Gay and is now strait and married with 3 kids
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Evolution, you can teach "intelegant design" which teaches nothing about any specific God, but shows that evolution could not have happened, and that we were designed by "something/someone" and were not just a random chance.

There are also young earth teachings that can be taught.

To give up on our Schools is to feed thousands of young people to the wolfs to be eaten alive while we sit and watch, and many years down the road we will sit and watch them be thrown into hell because we stepped out of the one place we might have been able to influence them, or to start there mind thinking of alternatives to what the world is teaching.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]To me I do not understand how someone could commit there life to follow christ, but just not want him to be in there government.
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The problem is that its not just YOUR government. It belongs to everyone who lives here; Christian, Atheist, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu... This is an extremely diverse nation. I honestly can't understand why Christians are so opposed to seperation between religion and government. You all worship pray and believe in your own ways every day, isn't that enough? Why do you need to alienate and oppress the non-Christian Americans?
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]To give up on our Schools is to feed thousands of young people to the wolfs to be eaten alive while we sit and watch, and many years down the road we will sit and watch them be thrown into hell because we stepped out of the one place we might have been able to influence them
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Children are influenced by much more than school. If you want your children to believe what you do, teach them yourself, or have your local pastor do it at church/sunday school etc... Going to a secular school will probably not influence their religious beliefs either way.
 
It comes down to what you believe is the truth. DO you want Your children being taught Lies? or how about if the school forgot to teach them some EXTREAMLY important life facts.

You do not believe that Jesus Christ is the ONE and ONLY way to heaven, and that is your beleif. It does not change the fact that he is still the ONLY way to heaven. ANd our kids should be taught this, if there are kids that do not know about it or kids who`s parents do not believe in Christ, why should we deny these young children the right to learn about God.

Kids should not have to pay for there parents mistakes. And if there parents do not teach them about God then it is up to us to do so.

You would not sit and watch a hospital with little children in it burn to death would you? or would you try to run in and save them. This is the same exact situation only you refuse to admit that the hospital is burning.

These kids need to hear about christ, and our governemnt should teach them it. Teach them the TRUE christ, not a watered down "God is what you want it/him to be" version.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]or how about if the school forgot to teach them some EXTREAMLY important life facts.
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It's not the job of public schools to teach extremely important life facts. Children get their beliefs and morals from friends and family, not from teachers, and thats how it should be.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]These kids need to hear about christ, and our governemnt should teach them it.
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Are you suggesting the federal government should be forcibly converting its citizens to Christianity? Aside from that being borderline evil, its also the worst way to bring people into your religion. Trying to tell non-Christian parents that you are going to override their belief system, and force their children to learn about your religion will infuriate them. You would cease to win converts and the moderate reasonable Christians would even protest. You are sure you're belief is the only way, so is every muslim. Do whats right for you and stop trying to control everyone else.
 
If parents knew what was happening they would be inferiorated, but fortunantly Parents do not pay attention to what is taught in school.

How many Christian parents think there kids are being taught that there is no God, or that there kids are being taught to be "tolorant" of other religions. Our kids are taught that "beleive whatever you want" and our parents have no idea of this.

What do you think would happen if a christian young person went to school and told them they think the man should be the head of the household. Or that Homosexuality is a sin and not a choice.

No matter if you like it or not, your kids are already being taught "beliefs" in the school, even evolution is a "belief" that takes faith to believe in. but our kids are taught that.

If a Muslim believed he could fly, does that mean he can? He may believe that his God is real, but it does not change the fact that it is not. He could also "believe" that he is the World Leader, but beliefs mean NOTHING if they are not true.

You simply need to accept the fact that Christ is the only true God. To accept that is to stop running from the truth.

I want our kids to be taught what is true, not fairytails in our schools. Christ is that Truth, without him you cannot have truth.
 
Mustard, if the government teaches a kid about Christianity, that is NOT forcing beliefs. If you're forced into beliefs, look to the Mid-East and Islam. That was the agenda of Mohammed, and HOW he got his followers. "Oh, what, too good to believe in what I say? Fine. I'll just kill you and your family. Jihad on you!" And thus was Islam spread: by militarist sword-bearers.
So. Islam, then, by your definition, is evil. And since we cannot tolerate anything evil, Islam must be made undone...
But that ain't gonna happen, is it?

Being taught SOMETHING besides random chance, as my brother's Biology book stupidly advocates, even bragging in one whole sentence that it is only a theory before continuing to speak as if this theory were fact, despite the fact that random chance is so ridiculous to imagine, compared to the many stats and observations of multiple accredited sources, MAY just help out kids in some manner or another.

Also by saying that the parents should teach kids you just shot the Austin State Committee in the gut, you Mustard you! They despise the idea of a nuclear-family unit, and recoil at the idea of home or private schooling, it would seem. Individuality is not to be encouraged among the America of today. People who take initiative are dangerous to this freedom of ignorance country.

And, Mustard, saying that kids aren't so heavily impacted by teachers as their parents...wrong. I go to a public school, and I am surrounded by kids who are integrated with beliefs from friends and from teachings, and either accept or repel beliefs from friends, and if repellance is the case, then they adopt their own.
Evolution is not disputed by these kids around me. 15,000,000,000 year old universe? Nothing doing! All we need are some perplexingly impossible situations, and a bit o' time, 15,000,000,000 years or so, to get where we're at. Give it some time. ANd the Yucatan asteroid just helped us out all the more by saturing the atmosphere with carbon dioxide when the dust formed some kind of greenhouse effect...despite the fact that we don't see that with volcanic eruptions into the Gulf Stream and other disasters where debris is launched sky-high.
WE DON'T SEE GREENHOUSE EFFECTS ON GLOBAL SCALES BY ERUPTIONS! It just doesn't happen!
But the books won't acknowledge that as wrong...they intro each and every preposterous "God-killing" "fact" by saying they are theories...and, again, continuing on that bent without ever reminding the reader that it's all just a theory, and if you get ONE theory of origins wrong on the quiz, big fat X for you, my friend. And, oh, if you so much as open your mouth to question the odds, and the modern-day observations that negate evolution, you are met with a stern visage that shrugs you off as a religious zealot if you let on that you believe in creation.

So yeah. Beliefs are found easily in school. My beliefs aren't well-accepted by many. This dude in my PE class...he doesn't WANT morals to exist, and so he turns to anything possible to support him. He doesn't buy evolution, or creation, he ain't sure which is which, but he doesn't want to believe in the idea of a Creator because, as Aldous Huxley, he wants to live to his pleasures and wants and amorality, rather than be battened down with the ideals of right and wrong. The Holographic Theory is a pleasant supplicant for him: everything is waves that our brain deciphers as different objects.

So. Beliefs aren't prevalent in school? Beliefs can't be influenced on kids? You're at school eight hours + a day...and you're telling me that school doesn't influence you?
 
If you read what I wrote, you'll see that I never said kids weren't influenced at all by schools, or by teachers. Every experience people go through affects them in some way, even into adulthood, though moreso as children. Parents are a much bigger part of their Children's lives than their teachers are, maybe with some very rare exceptions that don't change the point I'm making. If it was true that the secular public schools were ripping people away from Christianity, there wouldn't be any Christian students at them. Where I grew up, as an agnostic I was a very small minority. Not only in school but in the surrounding community. Of course this I went to a public school, and there was no 10 commandments or creationism yet the vast majority were proud practicing Christians. The conclusion you have to reach is that most everyone got their influence in terms of religion and spirituality from the community outside, and would have been the same regardless of what the school taught.

I was actually hoping for some support on this one, I really hope most Christians don't actually believe the government should be involved in trying to win converts, especially not in the classroom. The tone of RLCX's post was that he know what was right for the children of America, moreso than their own parents, and would disregard and override their rights by pushing his beliefs on others.

I've been coming here a while and have learned alot from you guys, and keep coming back to so hopefully you'll learn something about people with very different beliefs. The seperation of church and state issue is one I care very much about, please try and see it from someone else's perspective. Someone who may be wrong about religion, but still has a right to believe what they want. When you put up the 10 commandments in courthouses and schools it make the rest of us feel like outsiders in our own country. We don't hate your religion, we're not trying to attack you or your beliefs. I want you to be free to worship on your own, and have your own private relationship with god and with eachother, and the last thing I want to do is tell you what to believe, all most of us are asking for is the same in return. Just please recognize that you share this country with many that are not like you, keyword being share, freedom of religion doesn't mean that you simply aren't allowed to burn me for being an atheist, it means I should be just as welcome in America as you, as I am just as American as you. Sorry for the rant, but like I said, this isn't an issue I take lightly.
 
if our religion is forced on people they will rebel....so many rebellious prechers kids out there. I'm not saying that you shouldn't raise kids to the best your ability and let them choose what they want to believe. However I truly feel like protecting my kids (when I have them) to the best of my ability. I will enforce internet/cable filters, restrict the games they play ;) , send them to a Christian based school, and make them go to church until they are old enough on their own to decide if it's not for them.

I want my kids to go to a Christian school for a couple reasons. For starters our beliefs are there. Evolution will be mentioned but not enforced. Homosexuality again will be mentioned but not consoned. And rubbers won't be readily available.

I do understand that I cna't raise a kid in a bubble. I realize that when they go to friends they can watch and do stuff they won't have access to at home. But if you do influence your kids on the friends and music they listen to, it will make a difference.
 
Since when is putting up the ten commandments in a court house officially forcing you to become christian?


How you choose to feel when you see the 10 commandments hanging on a courthouse wall is really up to you. Nobody is holding a gun to your head saying, "feel like an outsider".


MeanMrMustard, you are free to practice, worship, have faith in and believe what you want. Regardless of what is hanging on the courthouse walls. What is hanging on the courthouse walls are hanging there because of the history, culture, identity and the significance thereof of the United States of America.
 
Mr.Mustard, lets meet 1/2 way
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The public school recieves 8,000-13,000 per child that attends each year. Which is great cash flow, ALLOW me to have that cash flow switched to the private school of my choice, that teaches what I want it to teach, and you can have your public school. ofcousre we should have standards that students should have to pass reguarless of where they are schooled, standards in MATH, Reading, English and PROVABLE science.

Standards should not include "theroys", if you could give me a government with that, I would be more than happy NOT to campain into your school. Ofcousre i would still host evangalistic events to win your kids over to my God, and would try swaying parents to see the advantages of moral teachings.

Unfortunantely Aithiest and the like do not wish to allow us those freedoms because it is there tax dollors going to spread a belief they do not agree with, and want there money spend on teaching things THEY believe. But the minite I want MY money to go twards MY beliefs that is all of a suddent "pushing beliefs on others"

You may not know God or his power, so you are ofcousre against this idea. but if You did know the TRUE God of the universe, you would see the beniffit of this to yoru kids.

A country who does not have CHRIST as its foundation will fall in time, only with a good foundation can we be made strong. Choose the foundation of your life, where your heart is you will find your foundation. I for one want to teach our kids to have a foundation that will not let them down.
 
What's a "theroy?" Are you being sarcastic or did you mean "Theory?" And what's "Proverbal Science?" I have never even heard of anything close to that.
And I had a monstrous post on the TEn Commandments, government, choice, religion and the will to choose. But here's the gist of it: out of all the commandments, three are prevalent: don't murder, don't steal and respect the parents. If you break either of those you are easily hung out to dry. All other commandments are moot in this relativist world, and pointless in a God-less world, since the remaining seven deal with morals and God.
So if you feel like you're being forced to believe in God, tough luck, wuss. Make your own choice. I did. Many others have. You can, too.
The courthouses don't rely on the Ten, if you haven't noticed lately. And if you're too dense, or too ignorant of America's history, then you have no business arguing against the Ten Commandments' stay, or origin.
 
As far a Science, True Science can be observed, recreated and tested to see if it is true, for example, under normal circumstances if you drop a rock from a building it will fall, and this can be proven, and recreated anywhere in the world and it will have the same results.

Evolution, is a made up fairytail, it cannot be proven, recreated, or tested. it is a "theroy" because noone has been able to recreate it. here is a interesting tid bit of information.

if Evolution was true, you could simulate 100,000 years fairly easially. Being how evolution works on natural selection, you should be able to recreate it.

Some Turtles can live to be 150+ years, I am going to estimate they come into sexual maturaty at around 30 years, so lets take 1 generation of turtles as 30 years. Now May Flies have a life cycle of 1 week,

Turtle = 30 years
May Fly= 0.2 Years, so a multiplier of 60 in difference in life cycles(only to first batch of young)

if you would take may flies, and breed them for 10 years, that would be 500 life cycles, equal to 30,000 years of life cycles for that turtle,

if you took those flies and hand picked traits you wanted, and tried and tried to "Naturally" create a new species, one that was different than the fly you started out with, 30,000 years worth of life cycles should be enough I would think. Especially being how you get thousands and thousands to work with. if you did this for 30 years(or an organization) they could equal 90,000 years of life cycles in compairison to a turtle, or a Elephant, and close to 45,000 years for human (if we said each generation had a child at 15 years old),

Here is my point, you would not be able to naturally create a new species of fly no matter how long you breed them, because natural selection only helps to make a race stronger, it does not help to make any new species, and if you cannot make a new species, EVOLUTION cannot be correct. Take Yeast for example, you can have that breed every hour if you want, try coming up using natural selection with a new forum of yeast. To make a long story short, Evolution is impossible, there are other SCIENTIFIC REASONS why evolution cannot be correct, but.... I have spoken long enough.

When I said to teach "FACTS" in science and not theroys, that is what I was refering too, and only FACTS should be on any standard knowledge test
 
I almost agree with you on every point.

My biggest issue with the school system is that they teaches many theories as facts, especially the theory of evolution.

If they actually tested knowledge on what the failings in the theories are then maybe I'd have less of an issue.

If you goto a physics class and learn about the theory of relativity, you will also learn the exceptions to the theory and where/when the theory simply does not work. And if you bring up other failings, you are rewarded.

Goto biology class and they teach you about the theory of evolution and not about the exceptions nor where/how the theory simply does not work. And if you bring up the failings of the theory, you are actually penalized. The do not discuss other theories and if the instructor/professor/teacher does find themselves in a pickle, they just gloss over the evidence and claim it is insignificant or is not relavent to the discussion at hand.
 
Lets get back to the purpose of this post, we could talk all year about what is wrong with our society and it would not do a single thing, what we need to do is start an army, and concentrate our efforts twards specitific areas. A Political army that has people who strive to get into possitions that are needed. School board, and start buisnessess that start targetting our youth to get them converted at a young age, and teach them to do the same. If you could gain access to the minds of 4th and 5th graders and keep them you would be able to help them see the truth and miss many of the mistakes most of us had to go threw

Gaming is the single best way to do this, every child loves games, and if we start holding tournaments, hosting LAN parties, with christians in charge you can direct these young minds in the right direction. That is the purpose of RLXC, on the out side we look like a nice Tournametn hosting organization and a Gaming center, but that is only what it appears. The real goal is to help convert your young children into warriors for christ.

I would encourage others to do the same, if you want help just email me. i would love to help you do the same thing I did
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (www_rlxc_com @ Aug. 12 2003,7:17)]Lets get some feedback. Is it right and Godly to have a seperation of church and state. WHen put bluntly it is saying Jesus shall having nothing to say about our government. I have heard many so called christians argue for this point. To me I do not understand how someone could commit there life to follow christ, but just not want him to be in there government. yes there are those who do not beleive in Christ, but shouldnt we fight to try getting them to beleive? What good does it do to let them have there free choice when they go to hell for it.

    Here is what I propose, why dont some of us christians go and run for simple small office`s. Like School board and such. Most school districts only have 6 members on there school board, and those 6 members have the power to choose how much evolution is taught, what type of guest speakers come in. They decide if "safe sex" or abstanance is tought in school. We are the army of God, so lets go start a fight. I am just interested if anyone would take up this challenge?
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I think people are really going to have to get used to having Jesus in government real soon
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His kingdom is coming and he will rule over earth for 1,000 years.

People are going to have real hard time seperating him from government during his millenial reign. LOL

And back to your original post, not everybody is meant to be in public office. Its something alot time is devoted to in finding out if it is right for the individual, both in prayer and with family and friends.

I understand and see your point. It is well worth making. If we are not meant to be the ones in public office, why not finding out who is running and stands on the Christian platform and support them as volunteers and such?

Your thoughts and ideas are very noble. And I will enjoy watching where it leads
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