PSYCHO CHRISTIAN ALERT!

[Master~Plan]

The difference is that Christianity holds itself to a higher standard. You are of God, no?

Note, that I have never claimed that America does NOT hold a bloody history. The actions of America against its native people are horrible and shameful. Christianity, on the other hand, tends to turn a blind eye to its shameful history.

no I don't ignore it, there are horrible things done in the name of Christ. My obligation is if I see any corruption in my church to act on it. I reject the idea of "look at what we have become" because I don't see it in my community. I'm not debating about what happened. God will sort it all out in the end. I have a hard enough trouble sorting out what I see in front of me right now.

That, is the difference. Those men that slaughtered the Native Indians were AMERICANS. There is no argument about whether they were "true" Americans or not. Seeing the difference now?

Yes I understand what you are saying. I was asking if you bieng an American are going to take any responsibility for what others have done in the past.

 

[Didasko]

Hey, you're the one that keeps bring up the TRUE CHRISTIAN stuff, not me.

We both bring it up DV just in very different ways. When I say true Christian you know what I mean...whether you want to admit it or not

When you bring it up you are trying to tarnish Christianity and make us look much more divided than we are.

 

[Dark Virtue]

no I don't ignore it, there are horrible things done in the name of Christ. My obligation is if I see any corruption in my church to act on it. I reject the idea of "look at what we have become" because I don't see it in my community. I'm not debating about what happened. God will sort it all out in the end. I have a hard enough trouble sorting out what I see in front of me right now.

I think this goes back to the definition of Church. As a Christian, you are part of a much larger community, not just the community of your denomination. While I admire what you said, let me ask you a question. Where were the Christians like you when the Puritans were persecuting "witches"? Why weren't they stopped?

Yes I understand what you are saying. I was asking if you bieng an American are going to take any responsibility for what others have done in the past.

I think you have to. There's a difference between being responsiblea nd being culpable. By not accepting responsibility and or ignoring the past, you are condemned to repeat those past mistakes.

 

[Dark Virtue]

We both bring it up DV just in very different ways. When I say true Christian you know what I mean...whether you want to admit it or not

When you bring it up you are trying to tarnish Christianity and make us look much more divided than we are.

I don't have to TRY and tarnish Christianity, it does just fine on its own. And you ARE more divided than you are willing to believe. The true Christian thread should have proved that.

 

[Didasko]

I don't have to TRY and tarnish Christianity, it does just fine on its own. And you ARE more divided than you are willing to believe. The true Christian thread should have proved that.

Actually I went back to that thread and did some reading. The Christians in the thread didn't really disagree on much of anything. You just tried to make it look that way.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Well of course, I'm always the bad guy

Maybe I should have said to take a look at it OBJECTIVELY.

 

[Didasko]

Well of course, I'm always the bad guy

Maybe I should have said to take a look at it OBJECTIVELY.

DV you and I definitely have a different understanding of objectivity. If you looked at the posts objectively you would see that most of the posts (that were on topic...which were very few) actually supported one another. There was some clarification that went on. There was a bit of misunderstanding that seemed to clear itself up OK. But if you are pointing to the ones that say it is a personal relationship with Christ, the ones that say you must accept Christ as your savior, and the ones that say you must repent, there is absolutely no disagreement in any of those. They are all true and they are all related.

Now you might point to some that were off topic and say that there was a little disagreement among them. However, even those, if talked through to their conclusion would be minor difference at worst.

 

[Eon]

DV you and I definitely have a different understanding of objectivity.

Quoted for truth.

Didasko - the Christian church is HORRIBLY divided. You have more splinter faiths than some faiths have worshippers. The Orthodox's hate the Catholics, the Catholics hate the Protestants and the Protestants hate themselves. And everyone hates the Mormons.

 

[Didasko]

Quoted for truth.

Didasko - the Christian church is HORRIBLY divided. You have more splinter faiths than some faiths have worshippers. The Orthodox's hate the Catholics, the Catholics hate the Protestants and the Protestants hate themselves. And everyone hates the Mormons.

Before I answer your post I would like to point out that the line of mine that you quoted was specifically addressed toward discussing the Christians on this board and a thread here. But I am still willing to address your topic

Orthodox do not 'hate' Catholics. Catholics do not 'hate' Protestants. Protestants do not 'hate' themselves.

Eon and DV I am in agreement with you that there are way too many sects. But the point the Christians on this board are trying to get across to you is this:

Most Christians agree on the essentials of the faith. The things we disagree on are not essentials and do not effect our salvation. We can disagree on things like whether we celebrate Christmas or the Passover and still love eachother as brothers and sisters in Christ.

I don't agree with a lot of the teachings of the Catholic church but I definitely do not hate them. There are many Christian brothers and sisters in the Catholic church as well as the Orthodox and various Protestant denominations. Every Christian I know (and I know a lot of them from many different denominations) would say the same thing.

 

[Dark Virtue]

That post gave me a nice, warm fuzzy feeling inside. Unfortunately, it's short lived when I realize it's not true. Well, it IS true, but in a much smaller proportion that you would like us, and yourself, to believe.

If what you say is true of the majority of Christians, there would not be a bloody trail following Christians throughout history.

I'm sorry Didasko, but facts is facts.

I don't care how many Christians you personally know, you don't know anything but the merest fraction of Christians in the world or throughout history.

I know you have a problem with modern day Christians being burdened with the sins of past Christians, but wasn't it YOUR God that condemned generation upon generation for the sins of their fathers? Let alone ALL of humanity for the mistakes of TWO people?

 

[Eon]

As somebody who spent most of the seventies and eighties wondering if that bag was a bomb, or whether I'd get sniped out whilst shopping, it's a great relief to hear that Protestants and Catholics get on just fine.

I'll need to brush up on my history too, because I have some recollections of hundreds of years of Britain being ostracised from mainland Europe about that too.

 

[Didasko]

That post gave me a nice, warm fuzzy feeling inside. Unfortunately, it's short lived when I realize it's not true. Well, it IS true, but in a much smaller proportion that you would like us, and yourself, to believe.

If what you say is true of the majority of Christians, there would not be a bloody trail following Christians throughout history.

I'm sorry Didasko, but facts is facts.

I don't care how many Christians you personally know, you don't know anything but the merest fraction of Christians in the world or throughout history.

I know you have a problem with modern day Christians being burdened with the sins of past Christians, but wasn't it YOUR God that condemned generation upon generation for the sins of their fathers? Let alone ALL of humanity for the mistakes of TWO people?

Obviously where we differ DV and Eon for that matter, is what we consider a Christian. Or better yet what we consider Christs teachings to be. Obviously the terrorists you speak of Eon were not following Christs teachings.

Would you agree?

 

[Dark Virtue]

You may not believe they were, but THEY did.

 

[Didasko]

You may not believe they were, but THEY did.

I definitely never disputed the fact that they did those terrible things.

You didn't answered my question. Were the bombings and snipings that Eon spoke of in accordance with the teachings of Christ?

 

[Master~Plan]

I think this goes back to the definition of Church. As a Christian, you are part of a much larger community, not just the community of your denomination. While I admire what you said, let me ask you a question. Where were the Christians like you when the Puritans were persecuting "witches"? Why weren't they stopped?

I'm sure we could speculate why. Niether of us bieng there, we don't know for sure. Fear paralyzes people, and I'm scared to think how I would react to that situation. I hope and pray that I would stand up on a soap box and tell the people they are wrong. In reality I"m not going to boast and say I would do that. Fear is a struggle for everyone every day. Sometimes when we do have heros they are taken for granted. I can only vouch for my life and what I have seen. What I have seen is God bieng the hero, and working great wonders.

I think you have to. There's a difference between being responsiblea nd being culpable. By not accepting responsibility and or ignoring the past, you are condemned to repeat those past mistakes.

its true

Didasko - the Christian church is HORRIBLY divided. You have more splinter faiths than some faiths have worshippers. The Orthodox's hate the Catholics, the Catholics hate the Protestants and the Protestants hate themselves. And everyone hates the Mormons.

laf

Christians agree on the essentials of the faith.

aye

If what you say is true of the majority of Christians, there would not be a bloody trail following Christians throughout history.

Christ told us how to live. why don't you listen to the people who listen to Christ?

I don't care how many Christians you personally know, you don't know anything but the merest fraction of Christians in the world or throughout history.

I"m sorry, you do? or have you only read? Just as a hypothetical question, what if you went out and explored people today, here and now? I don't have faith in people, but I have faith in Christ having the power to change people.

I know you have a problem with modern day Christians being burdened with the sins of past Christians, but wasn't it YOUR God that condemned generation upon generation for the sins of their fathers? Let alone ALL of humanity for the mistakes of TWO people?

No, that is not my God. My God created a perfect world for us to live in. When the two people failed miserably, My God gave everyone the chance to be perfect. Then when we all failed miserably, my God conquered death and gave us salvation by grace. My God is a Hero.

 

[Dark Virtue]

I definitely never disputed the fact that they did those terrible things.

You didn't answered my question. Were the bombings and snipings that Eon spoke of in accordance with the teachings of Christ?

Considering that Christians can't exactly agree on what the teachings of Christ actually were, the point is moot, which is why I ignored it.

 

[silent worship]

DV- are you an atheist?

 

[Dark Virtue]

I'm sure we could speculate why. Niether of us bieng there, we don't know for sure. Fear paralyzes people, and I'm scared to think how I would react to that situation. I hope and pray that I would stand up on a soap box and tell the people they are wrong. In reality I"m not going to boast and say I would do that. Fear is a struggle for everyone every day. Sometimes when we do have heros they are taken for granted. I can only vouch for my life and what I have seen. What I have seen is God bieng the hero, and working great wonders.

As I have previously stated, what YOU have PERSONALLY seen as a Christian, is a very very small slice of the history of Christianity.

Christ told us how to live. why don't you listen to the people who listen to Christ?

Because the actions of Christians often bely the words that they speak. The actions of Christians throughout history speak far more loudly than the words that come out of their mouths.

I"m sorry, you do? or have you only read? Just as a hypothetical question, what if you went out and explored people today, here and now? I don't have faith in people, but I have faith in Christ having the power to change people.

I have lived as a Christian, so I understand exactly what you are talking about. I've seen the good Christians and I've seen the hypocrites. Do people believe Christ changed their lives? Sure. Do people murder in the name of Christ? Yes. What's your point? Read what I had responded to. Didasko wrote, "Every Christian I know (and I know a lot of them from many different denominations) would say the same thing." My response was directed to that statement. I don't care how many good Christians you know, there is a long, sordid history of "not so good" Christians.

No, that is not my God. My God created a perfect world for us to live in. When the two people failed miserably, My God gave everyone the chance to be perfect. Then when we all failed miserably, my God conquered death and gave us salvation by grace. My God is a Hero.

I think you need to read your Bible again:

Gen.9:21-25
"And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father .... And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed be Canaan [Ham's son]; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren."

Ex.20:5 , Dt.5:9
"I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation."

Ex.34:7
"Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children unto the third and to the fourth generation."

Ex.34:7
"Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children unto the third and to the fourth generation."

Num.14:18
"Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation."

Dt.23:2
"A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD."

Dt.28:18
"Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body."

2 Sam.12:14
"The child also that is born unto thee shall surely die."

2 Sam.21:6-9
Let seven men of his sons be delivered unto us, and we will hang them up unto the LORD .... And he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them in the hill before the LORD."

1 Kg.2:33
"Their blood shall therefore return upon the head of Joab, and upon the head of his seed for ever."

1 Kg.11:11-12
"Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant. Notwithstanding in thy days I will not do it for David thy father's sake: but I will rend it out of the hand of thy son."

1 Kg.21:29
"Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me? because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring the evil in his days: but in his son's days will I bring the evil upon his house."

2 Kg.5:27
"The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever."

Is.14:21
"Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers."

Jer.16:10-11
"Wherefore hath the Lord pronounced all this great evil against us? ... Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the Lord."

Jer.29:32
"Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will punish Shemaiah the Nehelamite, and his seed."

Jer.32:18
"Thou ... recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them."

You see my point?

Reread Gen 3 and you will see how/where YOUR God punished all of Man, not just Adam and Eve.

Sorry MP, but you are QUITE wrong.

 

[Didasko]

Considering that Christians can't exactly agree on what the teachings of Christ actually were, the point is moot, which is why I ignored it.

haha...I don't think you like the answer to it myself

The answer is obvious to anyone that can read and think for themselves and you know it DV.

It is most assuredly not moot. It proves my point.

The 'christians' that did those things were not following Christ's teachings.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Then please explain to me how things like the Salem witch trials, the Inquisition and the Crusades can happen by those that claim they are Christians.

Were they following Christ's teachings? Not according to you, but they believed they were.