Possible Guild Master Changes

Icthus

Active Member
In the last few weeks the officers have been discussing many changes to Redeemed. As we all know, there was a great deal of conflict and stress for everyone concerned with the departure of some of our loved ones.

The officers have been in prayer and have developed a starting point for some changes to Redeemed.

In the past, we had ToJ hand down Guild Leaders and some rules.

After some research and discussion this is not the way ToJ, or Redeemed is set up to operate. Based on the ToJ Article 4, Redeemed is to be run by the local Guild Leader and his administrators. They decided all rules for activity and membership.

With this in mind Cgamer/Alhana and the rest of the officers have discussed some different things. We feel there need to be some changes in the way the guild operates. We are far to large, even with the exodus of some, for one person to function effectively as the Guild Master or Leader. Especially since there are many issues Redeemed needs to address in the very near future.

So it was decided that we would start by looking at changes to the GM position and then allow the new structure to define the rest of the officers, membership and relations with ToJ and such as they see fit.

So, here is a proposal for changing the Guild Master Position from one person to three co-equal leaders. This is purely for discussion.

****NOTE FOR NON REDEEMED MEMBERS (especially non-wow)****

Your input is very valuable to us. However, we will give more weight to those who are a part of Redeemed or at least have been a part of our family.

***end of note***

Guild Masters

Proposal-

• Change from single position to three co-guild leaders each over a separate but equal area of concern for the guild.
• They will work as a team to lead and set direction for the guild
• They are charged with setting membership rules and expectations
• Possible Areas- Administration, Post 60, Leveling, Spiritual Development, Membership, Banking, Recruiting, Guild Relationships

Reasoning-

• The guild has grown too large to have one leader. One person cannot be on enough to handle the many things that occur. This would allow one of the three to handle “emergency issues” until the appropriate leader could address the issue.
• We have gotten top heavy with officers with no real responsibilities
• Aligns the guild to things we feel are important instead of reacting to difficult situations
• Prior to the fracture of Sanctified the guild seemed to be very focused on doing MC. Great deals of our resources were headed there. That is not bad, but the people who are not 60 really don’t understand. Those that are 60 need to help communicate we are doing this not for ourselves but for them as well. A system is a very good way to do this. It also takes personalities out of play

Difficulties-

• Defining who does what might be difficult
• Setting up how Co-GM’s get assigned/elected
• Developing standards for GM behavior and accountability
• Defining relationship with ToJ
 
****NOTE FOR NON REDEEMED MEMBERS (especially non-wow)****

Your input is very valuable to us. However, we will give more weight to those who are a part of Redeemed or at least have been a part of our family.

[/qoute]

okay...my question is related to this section. Is REDEEMED the only guild in ToJ WoW? If not, how is it going to affect those others?

Also are you discussing changes to just the REDEEMED guild or to the chapter leadership itself? How will this triumvirate in-game affect CGamer's position out of game (which is Chapter Leader)?
 
AFAIK there are only 2 guilds in the ToJ WoW chapter. <Redeemed> and <MSC>.

This discussion here is about changing leadership of <Redeemed>. 2 more players to be elected to join CGamer as co-guild-leaders.

This should not affect <MSC> nor the ToJ chapter leadership.

...so who wants to run for the office of co-Guild Leader? Any takers? Any nominations?
 
Exactly what Mirakle said.

This discussion here is about changing leadership of <Redeemed>. 2 more players to be elected to join CGamer as co-guild-leaders.

This should not affect <MSC> nor the ToJ chapter leadership.
 
Based on the ToJ Article 4, Redeemed is to be run by the local Guild Leader and his administrators. They decided all rules for activity and membership.
Head administrators have authority, within their chapter, to admit and dismiss members, to appoint administrators, and to manage any task or project related to the chapter.
Article IV pertains to chapters, not guilds. Guild Leaders are under the authority of Chapter Leader, who are, in turn, under the authority of the President.

Also, Chapter Leaders have authority pertaining only to Tribe of Judah members. Chapter Leaders and Guild Leaders can admit only Tribe of Judah members to chapters and guilds. The only exception is the Sponsorship Program, which allows non-members to join Tribe of Judah-led guilds, and then only when the Guild Leader chooses to use the Program. (It is up to CGamer whether or not to use the Sponsorship Program in Redeemed.)

That being said, the intent of the Article remains the same: to delegate authority and responsibility so that work can be spread more evenly among staff.

My desire is for chapter staff members to take on more responsibility and authority within the chapter. This lifts some of my burden while giving chapter members more control over the chapter.

On a side note, I think the triumvirate idea is an excellent one, and I look forward to the future of Tribe of Judah's WoW chapter and guilds with great anticipation. :)
 
Hmm, anyone already signed up for one of the other GM positions? If nobody steps up, I'll take on the "shared" responsibility and help carry the weight of leadership...if it is acceptable and agreeable by the members.

On a side note, I will be "officially" stepping down from the DAoC chapter lead once we find a suitable replacement :) Seems that nobody plays much (I have had 2 responses to a MOTD message I posted a week or 2 ago, both said they don't play on that server anymore).

hey after reading my "member" title, it shows I'm member now, not Chapt Leader of DAoC...hmm...<shrug>
 
Soooo..... is the difference from the way it is now to this new proposal, the addition of 2 more Guild leaders?? and no other change than what it is now??

Is Tek7 saying that everything else will be the same .... and this is not a potential....

So it was decided that we would start by looking at changes to the GM position and then allow the new structure to define the rest of the officers, membership and relations with ToJ and such as they see fit.

Based on the ToJ Article 4, Redeemed is to be run by the local Guild Leader and his administrators. They decided all rules for activity and membership.
.........................................???
 
....

I think this is a great idea. I started a guild on my old server (Lothar) and this is how I ended up running my guild (sort of), as a council instead of a dictatorship. I came up with the idea after I had started leveling a horde toon (we are alliance) and wasn't around all the time, I didn't want the guild to feel "insecure" with no type of leadership around. I had 3 other people (elders) that were just barely under my "command". After I had quit the game for 3 months I turned over leadership to one of them where it still now sits. The guild is still going strong, and is and always has been about 99% drama free. I does get tiresome if there is nobody hardly around to act as leader, especially when decisions need to be made or invites, promotions....etc. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help strengthen this guild.

~Exorcyst

Poe retired 60 gnome rogue (lothar)
Dreadlokk retired 60 undead mage (lothar)
Maggutt 60 Tauren hunter (lothar)
Groggutt 48 gnome warrior (lothar)
Virrus 47 gnome warlock (lothar)
 
The idea Young is to establish a leadership council and allow them to work thru those changes.

Our guild has grown a great deal and needs a new system for caring for its members.

I think we as officers saw this as a first step in a process.
 
I think Young's question focuses on the two-tiered leadership you've set up. As I've understood it, you now have guild leaders and chapter leaders, and while guild leaders manage the vast majority of guild-related issues, the chapter leaders can (and have) stepped in to overrule the guild leaders on various issues.

This seems inefficient and unnecessary. Are there some sort of oversight issues that require an officer assigned specifically to watching CGamer and the other guild leaders? Wouldn't it be immensely more efficient (and create less conflict) if the leaders of the only active guild in the chapter were fully in charge of the chapter?

I'm not asking for anybody to be promoted or demoted. It just seems that if we're considering a three-person leadership council that will necessarily be under Tek7's leadership... why preserve a position that serves no purpose that the council is not already designed to serve? I don't know how many chapter leaders or guild leaders we have, but why not start by consolidating THEM rather than creating an unnecessary hierarcy?
 
I think the chapter leader verse guild leader issue is only a matter of definitions.

From my view of the ToJ Charter, the three Head Administrators/Chapter Leaders/Guild Masters, will have full control over Redeemed.

That is what is in the documentation currently. Those three can decide how Redeemed reports to ToJ.

That said, there has been some behind the scene discussions on what is standard operation procedure. For me, this is why the Leaders need to be chosen so they can sort it out.
 
Sometimes looking at things in the extreme instances will help define what it is you are looking it.

The WoW chapter of ToJ is not limited in the number of guilds. It can have 20 guilds, all with different guild leaders all on different servers or factions. They could even have different factions on the same server. The members in each guild would not necessarily even be connected. These twenty guild leaders would then co-ordinate with 1 Chapter leader. All the chapter leaders (from WoW, CS or WC3) would co-ordinate with Tek. That is the extreme.

The reality is the WoW chapter has 1 very large active guild (Redeemed) and a smaller not as active guild, the Mustard Seed Conspiracy and the two of them are very interconnected. So with a Ma and Pa view of things, it appears that having two levels is redundant. And that would be a safe assumption in this case.

But lets say that ExoSlayer as the current guild leader of the MSC decides to take it to the next level and starts to do some heavy recruiting outside of ToJ and grows MSC into a 400 member guild as Redeemed without using Redeemed members. This means MSC becomes much more self suficant with its own membership and leadership base. Having the GL of MSC and Redeemed report to one chapter leader makes sense.

The current view of the GL of Redeemed = the WoW chapter leader works only because of the current situation.
 
I am the Toj Chapter Leader for WoW which consists of 2 guilds within the chapter being Redeemed & Mustard Seed Conspiracy, and I serve as guild leader for Redeemed. Plankeye(aka Sandric) is guild leader in MSC actually though he is on break from WoW currently and Exo-Slayer is the current.

In essence for "the most part anyway" I'm doing two jobs, in adding 2 additionally co-leaders with me in Redeemed it will alleviate some of the pressure in leading the guild from off my shoulders. Which I'll be honest in the past few months have been quite a heavy load on me. The enjoyment I once felt from actually playing has been replaced by the drudgery of logging on to take care of administrative duties. My mood of late has been anywhere from the enjoyment I used to get from WoW. I'm hoping through a Triumvirate leadership it will alleviate some pressure from me and allow me to actually enjoy the playing of the game again. Don't take me wrong I enjoy being able to help in Redeemed it has just taken a lot more of me then I can afford to give. My real life responsibilities with preaching, college classes, home-life require a lot of my time. Basically I need the help and am asking my guildies for it.
 
Which I'll be honest in the past few months have been quite a heavy load on me. The enjoyment I once felt from actually playing has been replaced by the drudgery of logging on to take care of administrative duties. My mood of late has been anywhere from the enjoyment I used to get from WoW.

This is why there has been a high turn over in guild leadership. Unlike most guilds (not all), the guild leaders have all worked hard at solving issues and attempting to make things right. Alot of guilds would have kicked more people for alot less then has ever been seen in Redeemed.
 
Icthus said:
To say that Chapters are not guilds is silly.

We are listed as a chapter on the ToJ web site.


Actually no. Redeemed is NOT listed as a ToJ Chapter.

The ToJ website states that ToJ has a chapter for WoW. In WoW there exists two in-game guilds (Redeemed and Mustard Seed Conspiracy).

Icthus said:
I think the chapter leader verse guild leader issue is only a matter of definitions.

From my view of the ToJ Charter, the three Head Administrators/Chapter Leaders/Guild Masters, will have full control over Redeemed.

That is what is in the documentation currently. Those three can decide how Redeemed reports to ToJ.

That said, there has been some behind the scene discussions on what is standard operation procedure. For me, this is why the Leaders need to be chosen so they can sort it out.
Which is why I posted my question.

The ToJ Charter allows for Tek's appointed Chapter Leader to organize the chapter as he sees fit. If he wants the in-game guild to have multiple leaders and officers then that is what he can setup. And sure, those administrators will have full control over REdeemed, but as ToJ Guilds they will still be answerable to CGamer as the Chapter Leader. And ultimately CGamer will be answerable to Tek as ToJ President.

In these discussions please do not forget that Redeemed is a sub-component of the WoW Chapter, just as the WoW Chapter is a subcomponent of ToJ.



Deamiter said:
I think Young's question focuses on the two-tiered leadership you've set up. As I've understood it, you now have guild leaders and chapter leaders, and while guild leaders manage the vast majority of guild-related issues, the chapter leaders can (and have) stepped in to overrule the guild leaders on various issues.
<Snip>

I don't know how many chapter leaders or guild leaders we have, but why not start by consolidating THEM rather than creating an unnecessary hierarcy?
There are various levels of leadership here....Tek is the overall guy in charge of ToJ. He's the top man on the totem pole. The CEO/Owner/President. Whatever you want to call it.

Beneath him are the Chapter Leaders. Each Chapter Leader is responsible for their chapter and answers to Tek.

Now the Chapter Leader has a wide range of opportunities in how he structures his chapter. But the way it is set up for WoW now, CGamer (the chapter leader) is Guild Leader of the larger of the two ToJ-WoW Guilds, with Plankeye as Guilder Leader of the smaller of the two. And each has an assorted number of officers and ne'er do wells.

And that's fine.

If he wishes to restructure so that the largest guild has a triumvirate leading it, he can do that as well. And in fact he doesn't even need to be on the triumvirate. BUT the guild still answers to him, because he is the authority over the ToJ WoW Chapter.

And CGamer still answers to Tek, because Tek is the authority over all of ToJ.



Does that make sense?
 
Mabye if Redeemed and MSC were Subchapters? I was a little surprised when I found out that Redeemed is not a Chapter.
 
Thanks for trying to clear it up. Your explanation actually makes a ton of sense to me.

I think it'd be great to split up CGamer's leadership responsibilities so he doesn't blow a gasket or something! I do apologize as I was under the impression that somebody else (didn't know who) was chapter leader.

I absolutely hate when groups like this get legalistic -- and I think we should continue to stay very far away from that! At the same time, having well-defined roles for these three leaders would be quite wise in my opinion. Even if the actual roles they take are less distinct, in case of conflict, you need to have a well-defined (and up-to-date) boundaries between roles. As a simple example, if one leader is assigned raid coordinator, but another ends up doing it (due to time, passion whatever...) their roles should be updated to reflect their actions. Otherwise hurt feelings are just around the corner!
 
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