Jaxter
New Member
/looks around
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Nvm
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Nvm
Possible Guild Master Changes
- Thread starter Icthus
- Start date
Dukatt
New Member
/waves at Jaxter
/waves at jaxter again
/e wonders why jaxter does not wave back!!!!
/waves at jaxter again
/e wonders why jaxter does not wave back!!!!
Quote by Demiter:
This is some of the concern that I have that Demiter has stated well. It goes higher and broader than that . I have seen people in Toj's leadership that come out of the woodworks, that are not a part of this tiered leadership for Redeemed, that start dictating what we in Redeemed can do or can't do. To give you a few examples ... Heiscomminsoon...... comes on the scene and starts dictating what we can do and cant do. Moderators come on and start dictating what we can say on here and what we cant.... and i heard (not sure if its true) that FJ overturned a decision that Alhana (our Guild and chapter leader) had made; What is FJ's position? (would like an answer on this if its true)
It appears that there are so many people up the ladder ..that if they don't like what our leadership decides on they can either totally overturn what we decide on ...or .... drag their feet so that it never gets done. Ive seen both. Some of these people might be support people ....but they can make it miserable for us if they don't want to work with us. Some have made it totally clear that they don't answer to us but only to Tek7..... sometimes we don't even get responses from the leaders ...and the more we have all these people over us, the harder it will be to get questions answered or something done.......If these people are supports and Tek is really trying to get out of the way ...why do these supports say ,they aren't going to do anything unless Tek tells them ...what they are doing is placing Tek right back into the middle.
How do you even effectively communicate with all these people? I can see why anyone that cares to try and move this guild forward gets frustrated and angry. i don't see how adding 2 people to the guild leadership is going to change anything. OK maybe eases Alhana's load.
We did have 3 people in these type of roles already...Alhana/Avesther/Goblit..... And the immense amount of people they had to work with and the red tape they had to work through made thing almost impossible to meet the demands that are created in this game to move us forward. We are talking skilled people here that ran up against this over-heavy Leadership .....I don't see how there is going to be much of a change .....if the peons on the bottom are thinking they are making the changes and the people in power at the top, don't understand it or don't like it, are really making the changes or stopping it.
One of the BIG things I think that we need to address 1st is ....That everyone in this whole system needs to be accountable for what we/they say and do ... there are allot of hurt feelings by people saying what they want to say and doing what they want to do with out any type of accountability. Not answering someone..... is just sidestepping that accountability.This includes the Leadership all the way to the top. I feel if we don't address this ,then we will have people continuing to leave Redeemed.
Young.....alias.....Young
This is some of the concern that I have that Demiter has stated well. It goes higher and broader than that . I have seen people in Toj's leadership that come out of the woodworks, that are not a part of this tiered leadership for Redeemed, that start dictating what we in Redeemed can do or can't do. To give you a few examples ... Heiscomminsoon...... comes on the scene and starts dictating what we can do and cant do. Moderators come on and start dictating what we can say on here and what we cant.... and i heard (not sure if its true) that FJ overturned a decision that Alhana (our Guild and chapter leader) had made; What is FJ's position? (would like an answer on this if its true)
It appears that there are so many people up the ladder ..that if they don't like what our leadership decides on they can either totally overturn what we decide on ...or .... drag their feet so that it never gets done. Ive seen both. Some of these people might be support people ....but they can make it miserable for us if they don't want to work with us. Some have made it totally clear that they don't answer to us but only to Tek7..... sometimes we don't even get responses from the leaders ...and the more we have all these people over us, the harder it will be to get questions answered or something done.......If these people are supports and Tek is really trying to get out of the way ...why do these supports say ,they aren't going to do anything unless Tek tells them ...what they are doing is placing Tek right back into the middle.
How do you even effectively communicate with all these people? I can see why anyone that cares to try and move this guild forward gets frustrated and angry. i don't see how adding 2 people to the guild leadership is going to change anything. OK maybe eases Alhana's load.
We did have 3 people in these type of roles already...Alhana/Avesther/Goblit..... And the immense amount of people they had to work with and the red tape they had to work through made thing almost impossible to meet the demands that are created in this game to move us forward. We are talking skilled people here that ran up against this over-heavy Leadership .....I don't see how there is going to be much of a change .....if the peons on the bottom are thinking they are making the changes and the people in power at the top, don't understand it or don't like it, are really making the changes or stopping it.
One of the BIG things I think that we need to address 1st is ....That everyone in this whole system needs to be accountable for what we/they say and do ... there are allot of hurt feelings by people saying what they want to say and doing what they want to do with out any type of accountability. Not answering someone..... is just sidestepping that accountability.This includes the Leadership all the way to the top. I feel if we don't address this ,then we will have people continuing to leave Redeemed.
Young.....alias.....Young
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ewoksrule
Active Member
Young, I am very confused by what you are saying here. I am one of the newest officers so maybe alot of what you are referring to happened 5 months ago or more when I was not here?
In regards to chapter leaders vs Guild leaders, both you and Deamiter mentioned this conflict or overruling. The truth is that Alhana is BOTH the only WoW chapter leader and the Guild Leader of Redeemed at the same time. So how is there any conflict here?
In regards to other leadership that is overruling, not-responding, and only answering to TEK, who is this? Is this some of our officers/recruiters? Or are you talking about ppl on ToJ staff who were just members in the guild? I can honestly say that since I was promoted to officer, I have seen just about every other officer work hard to make this guild work out. I just can't think of one example of what you are talking about. I would really appreciate if you could clarify this.
When you say there were 3 ppl in this type of role Alhana/Avesther/Goblit what does that mean? There were many others that held the higest officer position of "recruiter" I was one of them. besides Avesther and Goblit was Mirakle, Icthus, FJ, SamJ, Osyris, etc actually Icthus and Avesther are not recruiters, they are a lower rank officer. (not that our officer ranks are by importance tho) ...I do not remember coming up against any "red-tape" that you are talking about, could you clarify what you mean please?
I guess I am just really confused by this whole post. It makes a lot of general accusations with no specific evidence or situations. I am not sure it accuratly reflects anything that has been going on in the past 5 months since I have been in the guild. I have seen the guild grow and grow and grow, our raid team get further and further. Its awesome! I do not see this unability to move forward that you are talking about.
You mention wanting accountability, well the ranking of officer ship/ co-guild leaders + the covering of a parent organization like ToJ is the best shot at this in my opinion. What else might you suggest that would help?
I want nothing more then to help this guild move forward, your post obviously is heart-felt and has many accusations, i want to help find out answers, but I need to understand your questions first. I am really confused as it stands.
In regards to chapter leaders vs Guild leaders, both you and Deamiter mentioned this conflict or overruling. The truth is that Alhana is BOTH the only WoW chapter leader and the Guild Leader of Redeemed at the same time. So how is there any conflict here?
In regards to other leadership that is overruling, not-responding, and only answering to TEK, who is this? Is this some of our officers/recruiters? Or are you talking about ppl on ToJ staff who were just members in the guild? I can honestly say that since I was promoted to officer, I have seen just about every other officer work hard to make this guild work out. I just can't think of one example of what you are talking about. I would really appreciate if you could clarify this.
When you say there were 3 ppl in this type of role Alhana/Avesther/Goblit what does that mean? There were many others that held the higest officer position of "recruiter" I was one of them. besides Avesther and Goblit was Mirakle, Icthus, FJ, SamJ, Osyris, etc actually Icthus and Avesther are not recruiters, they are a lower rank officer. (not that our officer ranks are by importance tho) ...I do not remember coming up against any "red-tape" that you are talking about, could you clarify what you mean please?
I guess I am just really confused by this whole post. It makes a lot of general accusations with no specific evidence or situations. I am not sure it accuratly reflects anything that has been going on in the past 5 months since I have been in the guild. I have seen the guild grow and grow and grow, our raid team get further and further. Its awesome! I do not see this unability to move forward that you are talking about.
You mention wanting accountability, well the ranking of officer ship/ co-guild leaders + the covering of a parent organization like ToJ is the best shot at this in my opinion. What else might you suggest that would help?
I want nothing more then to help this guild move forward, your post obviously is heart-felt and has many accusations, i want to help find out answers, but I need to understand your questions first. I am really confused as it stands.
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Kidan
Moderator
What you're describing in your examples is an entirely different thing than what was being discussed earlier.
HCS is the Forum Administrator for CGA which is kind enough to host ToJ's forums. The Forum Admins and Moderators are here to ensure that the ToS for the Forums are upheld, and that means that sometimes we HAVE to come in and start dictating what can/cannot be said on the forums. That's just a fact of life.
Neither HCS nor myself has any say on what goes on in Redeemed outside of ensuring that the Forums stay in line with the rules.
When I post comments and questions in the threads such as this one, I'm trying to help by offering my many years of experience in ToJ, trying to make sure that all questions and things are thought of. I offer clarifications to the things that I think might be confusing people, based upon what I know Tek wants, and expects, from chapters.
Hmmm... Yeah, there's a lot of stuff in Young's post that is a bit off topic, but some that directly applies here.
Yes, it's true that we've got a lot of officers, but for many of us members (who don't see the staff forums) it looked very much like the leaders were Alhana, Avesther and Goblit. People from many different guilds thought that Redeemed had disbanded when Goblit left simply because they assumed that Goblit WAS the leader.
That isn't much of a current issue any longer, but what we can learn from this is that it's very important for guild leaders to actively lead -- online, on vent (or teamspeak if you can get it to work with WoW) and in the forums. I honestly respect all the leaders in ToJ and Redeemed quite a bit (if it has seemed otherwise, please let me know and I may have to apologize as Icthus has done). Of course we do have many leaders who do this -- I was just a bit supprised when I went through the guild list and found many officers I hadn't identified by their actions in game.
I don't want to dig up rumors and Fj is by FAR one of my favorite tanks (and a great officer/bank!) I believe that he is officially second in command of ToJ right? I guess it would be important to lay out if and when officers in ToJ can overrule officers in Redeemed (or the chapter leader). Whether or not this happened (does it really matter?) I think it's still very important to define how much autonomy CGamer has, as chapter leader, when higher ToJ officers are active in the chapter.
Yes, it's true that we've got a lot of officers, but for many of us members (who don't see the staff forums) it looked very much like the leaders were Alhana, Avesther and Goblit. People from many different guilds thought that Redeemed had disbanded when Goblit left simply because they assumed that Goblit WAS the leader.
That isn't much of a current issue any longer, but what we can learn from this is that it's very important for guild leaders to actively lead -- online, on vent (or teamspeak if you can get it to work with WoW) and in the forums. I honestly respect all the leaders in ToJ and Redeemed quite a bit (if it has seemed otherwise, please let me know and I may have to apologize as Icthus has done). Of course we do have many leaders who do this -- I was just a bit supprised when I went through the guild list and found many officers I hadn't identified by their actions in game.
I don't want to dig up rumors and Fj is by FAR one of my favorite tanks (and a great officer/bank!) I believe that he is officially second in command of ToJ right? I guess it would be important to lay out if and when officers in ToJ can overrule officers in Redeemed (or the chapter leader). Whether or not this happened (does it really matter?) I think it's still very important to define how much autonomy CGamer has, as chapter leader, when higher ToJ officers are active in the chapter.
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Oh, and Young -- I still disagree with you about the forums. I guess it comes from moderating so much, but there are always ways to express feelings that are NOT directly insulting or inflammatory. And looking it at it from a moderator's perspective, I know how much it ALWAYS looks like you're censoring one side or another. For example, in moderating creationism/evolution debates, I was called both a satanic atheist (never mind the contradiction) and a bigoted Christian. I certainly have my own views, but I moderated tone and deleted insults no matter WHAT the message.
I'm happy with the way these forums have been moderated. Yes, we're going to disagree with individual decisions, but overall, given the strong emotions and hurt feelings in the past few weeks, we've been given a lot of freedom to express views.
I'm happy with the way these forums have been moderated. Yes, we're going to disagree with individual decisions, but overall, given the strong emotions and hurt feelings in the past few weeks, we've been given a lot of freedom to express views.
ewoksrule
Active Member
I am with you Deamiter, I think that the the roles of GL and Officers could be much clearer for the guild. I know that I never really knew my place in the mix, other then my job to talk to prospective guildies at great lengths. Most of what I did was behind the scenes. I did devote a ton of time to it nonetheless.
Part of the reason Goblit seemed like the guild leader points to Alhana's leadership style. He puts a great amount of trust and power in his officers' hands. He does not use Vent due to being on Dial-up. Also was the fact that end-game raiding was a huge push for the guild and we were actively recruiting with that in mind. Since Aves and Goblit were the raid officers for MC that gave them a ton of extra face time. (on top of their already very active participation in guild)
Hopefully the 3-GLeaders would make this clearer and time would be spent outlining the roles and positions for all the guild to see and understand.
side-note: I think I know what you are talking about with FJ, and if it is the same thing... He most def did not overrule Alhana. He did have a strong opinion on what should happen. But at the time all of officers were in a group with Alhana and we all agreed that FJ's request should be followed. It was not 1 person overruling, it was the team of officers making a united decision and asking Alhana to reconsider his position. Which did happen. I know that you are getting mixed info on this because I have talked to the parties involved and they are confused as to the event details, they are presenting the events quite different then I saw them. - Regardless, I think we will see that no officer in Redeemed has over ruling power. Tek is the only one who Alhana has to report to. Alhana is a very kind leader, however, and he will often take the officers requests to heart and change his position if it seems right to him. You are right, that this should be clearly documented so no future misunderstandings can happen.
Part of the reason Goblit seemed like the guild leader points to Alhana's leadership style. He puts a great amount of trust and power in his officers' hands. He does not use Vent due to being on Dial-up. Also was the fact that end-game raiding was a huge push for the guild and we were actively recruiting with that in mind. Since Aves and Goblit were the raid officers for MC that gave them a ton of extra face time. (on top of their already very active participation in guild)
Hopefully the 3-GLeaders would make this clearer and time would be spent outlining the roles and positions for all the guild to see and understand.
side-note: I think I know what you are talking about with FJ, and if it is the same thing... He most def did not overrule Alhana. He did have a strong opinion on what should happen. But at the time all of officers were in a group with Alhana and we all agreed that FJ's request should be followed. It was not 1 person overruling, it was the team of officers making a united decision and asking Alhana to reconsider his position. Which did happen. I know that you are getting mixed info on this because I have talked to the parties involved and they are confused as to the event details, they are presenting the events quite different then I saw them. - Regardless, I think we will see that no officer in Redeemed has over ruling power. Tek is the only one who Alhana has to report to. Alhana is a very kind leader, however, and he will often take the officers requests to heart and change his position if it seems right to him. You are right, that this should be clearly documented so no future misunderstandings can happen.
Odale
Active Member
Fj is not second in command of Toj
Tek7 ~> Clan/Guild Heads ~> Moderators ~> Members.
I don't believe Young wanted to start a flame war, I talked to him about it until 3am a week or so ago. He believes that if there are issues to be addressed, they need to be publicly addressed, so that everyone can recognize them. I can understand that and I dont think its too much to ask that it not be deleted. Tek explained (or showed the rule that Young compromised) why he deleted it however.
Tek7 ~> Clan/Guild Heads ~> Moderators ~> Members.
I don't believe Young wanted to start a flame war, I talked to him about it until 3am a week or so ago. He believes that if there are issues to be addressed, they need to be publicly addressed, so that everyone can recognize them. I can understand that and I dont think its too much to ask that it not be deleted. Tek explained (or showed the rule that Young compromised) why he deleted it however.
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ewoksrule
Active Member
oh also Deamiter, I think some confusion was that Alhana used the language "My hands are tied" in regards to a couple decisions. This might have been a poor use on his part. This gave the impression that he was being over-ruled. What happened was that all of the officers on-line agreed on something and asked Alhana to make the call. He decided to go with our wishes over his initial thoughts. Later he did agree that we were right on this call. -->Sorry to be so vauge to everyone, but I don't want to stir this up more then needed to clear it up to those that know what we are talking about.
I'm trying to be careful as most of the questions you ask are ones best answered in a PM.
ewoksrule
Active Member
Ahh well said, thanks for clearing up a ton there
I still regret not taking screenshots of the conversation that took place to clear the record one way or the other.....but then I'd just as soon forget it as well as it was by far the most painful thing done to me thus far.....torn.
Avesther
New Member
The problem with accountability is that its totally voluntary.
You can put in consequences for the times people choose not to be responsible and accountable, but thats not forcing them to be responsible or accountable.
You can put in consequences for the times people choose not to be responsible and accountable, but thats not forcing them to be responsible or accountable.
I finally got some sleep......
Thank you Goblit for answering the questions that Mirakle asked. But before I go into this ....I'ld like to expound on what Klangdon said:
I would like to see these hurts and offenses dealt with so that they stop becoming bigger than life and these DRAMAS will stop happening in our guilds.....we are not getting past old problems and wounds .....we are not confronting them ....we are just labeling people and get enough ammunition and hopefully get rid of them.....If we talk things out in here many of these conflicts can be resolved and we as a guild can move on ....example :
do you think that Avesther left Redeemed and then Toj because it was an new conflict .....It was old ones that were never dealt with appropriatly...
That being said ....The reason I want things talked out in here is because it becomes obvious that the problem is being worked on and people can see the players and how they are handling things .I will give this one more example:
There are 2 people that can be accountable to this Alhana and FJ......They can respond to this and should to stop rumors ....answering realizing that Jesus also reads these forums. A lack of answering gives validation of some sort.... Others answering for them is not appropriate.....I could say anything and the person who is involved could hide behind my answer weather it is true or not...If one answers themselves ..then they are accountable for what they say and their own actions.
I will address one last thing from Klangdon and take a breath lol
I placed something on the forum that gave specifics ...not generalizing..and it was deleted. I never heard anything from anyone of why it was removed.....so I sent it to our leaders asking why it would be dealeted.....I am still waiting on an answer.....I do appreciate what you have said about it here Klangdon. So if my talking here is in generals its because i want to express something without it getting deleted .
Mirakle did Goblit answer your questions or did you want me to respond also?
Thank you Goblit for answering the questions that Mirakle asked. But before I go into this ....I'ld like to expound on what Klangdon said:
This is very true i am not interested in causing a flame war. What I see happening in our Guilds is .....Someone says or does something and someone gets offended . (After the offended one goes to the one offending them without any resolve), The offended one has no means of making that person accountable for it . because you cant say any specifics in here or it gets removed. That offense gets inflamed and the hurt comes out in another form that people considered hostile....and they get labeled and the inflamed hurt grows. Other people get bits and pieces and they eventually make their own decisions and rumors and feelings go ramped. If we talk out things in this forum and the people that are actually involved respond to the situations others will get a reality of what is happening more-so. If I know what I do and say is going to possibly be on here and I will be accountable for it , I will count my words and decisions carefully . As to date I can do whatever i want cuzz I know no inflammatory ,weather they be true or not ,will not be allowed on the forums for the public to see.
I would like to see these hurts and offenses dealt with so that they stop becoming bigger than life and these DRAMAS will stop happening in our guilds.....we are not getting past old problems and wounds .....we are not confronting them ....we are just labeling people and get enough ammunition and hopefully get rid of them.....If we talk things out in here many of these conflicts can be resolved and we as a guild can move on ....example :
do you think that Avesther left Redeemed and then Toj because it was an new conflict .....It was old ones that were never dealt with appropriatly...
That being said ....The reason I want things talked out in here is because it becomes obvious that the problem is being worked on and people can see the players and how they are handling things .I will give this one more example:
There are 2 people that can be accountable to this Alhana and FJ......They can respond to this and should to stop rumors ....answering realizing that Jesus also reads these forums. A lack of answering gives validation of some sort.... Others answering for them is not appropriate.....I could say anything and the person who is involved could hide behind my answer weather it is true or not...If one answers themselves ..then they are accountable for what they say and their own actions.
I will address one last thing from Klangdon and take a breath lol
I placed something on the forum that gave specifics ...not generalizing..and it was deleted. I never heard anything from anyone of why it was removed.....so I sent it to our leaders asking why it would be dealeted.....I am still waiting on an answer.....I do appreciate what you have said about it here Klangdon. So if my talking here is in generals its because i want to express something without it getting deleted .
Mirakle did Goblit answer your questions or did you want me to respond also?
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You Moderators had done a wonderful job of expressing yourselves and calming to the rest of us...I appreciate what you have done. You have always responded back ....very refreshing.
Sometimes telling the truth is painful to the person it is about ....and they may find it inflamitory...but it is the truth.....Thats what our Jesus is all about .....Im so glad that when God wrote the Bible that he didn't Block out the truth to avoid making the person look bad . When King David committed Coveting/Adultery/and premeditated Murder.....and the Prophet Nathan confronted him with the truth (2 Samuel chapter 11 and 12) ... God didn't leave this out of the record.....Why are we so afraid of the truth??? Bringing the truth out in the open will solve allot of our problems ....we can learn to present the truth in an acceptable way ...but the truth can hurt the person its about ..but it needs to be addressed.......My kids always had to return what they took and apologize when they did wrong.....Why are we any less than what we expect from our kids.
Elihu
Tribe of Judah Staff Manager
I have just read through all of this...wow a long thread already...don't know if I just missed it or if it was very recent. I will expound now on my (Fj's) role in ToJ and Redeemed both. In ToJ I am nothing more than a member, holding only an officer position in the guild as a raid coordinator at this time. In Redeemed, when the split was occuring there was much debate over who would lead TE and how thigns would be handled...I offered my services to lead the run until things could be figured out, and was promoted up into a raid coordinator position which was approved by Alhana. I have not since been demoted, and have taken steps to remain active using the role given to me to put together runs such as the UBRS run tonight and the BRD run Thurs. Truth is I was completely against one of Alhana's decisions and voiced my opinion and reasoning in this to other officers in a group setting. Does this mean i overturned his decision?? I think Alhana has the last say on anything that happens in the guild he leads and I cannot make a decision for him. This was deliberated on by Mirakle, Icthus, Klagndon and myself before presenting it to Alhana himself. The decision was a joint decision and I in no way enforced or strongarmed a decision. I'll leave it up to Alhana to clarify this if he feels it needs further posting on.
As to Goblit's post earlier about my actions towards her.....I also wish we had screenies for everyone to see what took place. I feel I was in no wrong for wanting an invite to the Ony run to which I had signed up for, and when faced with the reality that Goblit was not planning on allowing me to attend it set me off. I was under the understanding that all past TE members would be allowed to raid with TE continually, looking at the post that Goblit herself made of the list of TE members, and could not figure out why I should be excluded. I even asked to join the raid politely after finding out that there was a debate going on about me being able to come or not. To which I recieved a response of "Don't you think it best if we keep our distance from one another?" Sorry but that just pushed me over the edge considering that I have been nothing but helpful during TE's existence. My response was as follows: "Don't you think it wise to invite me for a raid I signed up for?" To which she promptly quits the raid but not before making me look the "bad guy" to people in vent. For what?? For reacting to an exclusion of myself from others based on the decision of one person? I would have been more understanding if this had been the feelings of everyone in TE, knowing that they did not want me there....but this wasn't the case. I did not try to put Avesther on the spot, I did message him first for an invite as I was told in guild chat that I needed to whisper Avesther or Goblit for an invite. After waiting for one, and getting tells from others about teh goings on, I decided to ask Goblit for my invite. I said, "I am ready for my Ony invite please." No tone, nothing else to it...I kept it short, simple, to the point. After Goblit left I was told to contact Avesther for an invite as he was now the raid leader. I did so only to be met with silence, then see him log as well. after this I was invited by Mirakle to a raid for which I no longer felt welcome. This has pained me moreso than Goblit can imagine as I have already made and posted a decision in the staff forums to no longer raid with TE, something I spent countless hours helping to build and fortify, and to find another team to join for end-game instancing. If Alhana is willing, I will still continue to serve on staff for Redeemed as a raid coordinator setting up raids for UBRS, BRD, STRAT, SCHOLo, DM, and such as can be held. I am ready to move on...I may have a short fuse, but God gave me a soft heart and I have already forgiven Goblit of her actions and decided to move on from here. I will only take a step towards mutual reconciliation when I am ready and feel God has prepared me to do so. Until then, I wish TE and its members the best and hope to see more of its successes continue from here.
As to Goblit's post earlier about my actions towards her.....I also wish we had screenies for everyone to see what took place. I feel I was in no wrong for wanting an invite to the Ony run to which I had signed up for, and when faced with the reality that Goblit was not planning on allowing me to attend it set me off. I was under the understanding that all past TE members would be allowed to raid with TE continually, looking at the post that Goblit herself made of the list of TE members, and could not figure out why I should be excluded. I even asked to join the raid politely after finding out that there was a debate going on about me being able to come or not. To which I recieved a response of "Don't you think it best if we keep our distance from one another?" Sorry but that just pushed me over the edge considering that I have been nothing but helpful during TE's existence. My response was as follows: "Don't you think it wise to invite me for a raid I signed up for?" To which she promptly quits the raid but not before making me look the "bad guy" to people in vent. For what?? For reacting to an exclusion of myself from others based on the decision of one person? I would have been more understanding if this had been the feelings of everyone in TE, knowing that they did not want me there....but this wasn't the case. I did not try to put Avesther on the spot, I did message him first for an invite as I was told in guild chat that I needed to whisper Avesther or Goblit for an invite. After waiting for one, and getting tells from others about teh goings on, I decided to ask Goblit for my invite. I said, "I am ready for my Ony invite please." No tone, nothing else to it...I kept it short, simple, to the point. After Goblit left I was told to contact Avesther for an invite as he was now the raid leader. I did so only to be met with silence, then see him log as well. after this I was invited by Mirakle to a raid for which I no longer felt welcome. This has pained me moreso than Goblit can imagine as I have already made and posted a decision in the staff forums to no longer raid with TE, something I spent countless hours helping to build and fortify, and to find another team to join for end-game instancing. If Alhana is willing, I will still continue to serve on staff for Redeemed as a raid coordinator setting up raids for UBRS, BRD, STRAT, SCHOLo, DM, and such as can be held. I am ready to move on...I may have a short fuse, but God gave me a soft heart and I have already forgiven Goblit of her actions and decided to move on from here. I will only take a step towards mutual reconciliation when I am ready and feel God has prepared me to do so. Until then, I wish TE and its members the best and hope to see more of its successes continue from here.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your response on here.....I remember the incident well......when I raided with ONE I had many episode of just what you are expressing here. And I all to well know the pain..... I messaged you to stay....cuzz what had happened was wrong .....it seemed it all happened so fast that I couldn't type fast enough.....The fact is .....that many of us did not think you were not welcomed ....I for one felt you fully deserved to be there and held no harsh feelings for you....
In ONE I also felt that everyone in the raid felt the same way as the few that didn't want me there ....... when it was brought up on the forums ...I found out that the majority actually liked me and considered me a friend and family.......Goblits action here did not reflect the rest of us ...most didn't even know what was happening.
There are open wounds that need to be talked out . There is hurt on both sides .....avoiding doesn't heal them.
In ONE I also felt that everyone in the raid felt the same way as the few that didn't want me there ....... when it was brought up on the forums ...I found out that the majority actually liked me and considered me a friend and family.......Goblits action here did not reflect the rest of us ...most didn't even know what was happening.
There are open wounds that need to be talked out . There is hurt on both sides .....avoiding doesn't heal them.
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I think this is one of those issues that needs to be worked out from heated feelings and exchanges that happened during the split. I have heard bits and pieces of the goings on and will not pass judgement as I do not know the full story but I think things were said that need to be thought about and worked out either privately or publicly if you are so inclined.
As an aside, Goblit did not say anything about you when she left the raid, she said something came up and she couldnt stay. I think most of us probably figured out why that was but she never said anything publicly about FJ.
As an aside, Goblit did not say anything about you when she left the raid, she said something came up and she couldnt stay. I think most of us probably figured out why that was but she never said anything publicly about FJ.
In reponse to FJ's post:
The recent incidents ie. FJ asking my alt to be gkicked from Redeemed have just been salt on an old wounds that have been left to fester for over a year. I need time and space to heal.
I am unaware of any debate about inviting FJ to Onyxia. When he asked for an invite, I did ask if we could have some space between us. He still wanted an invite so I obliged by passing leader and bowing out of the group in order to get the space I needed. I NEVER said FJ couldn't come. I explained on vent I needed to go..I needed some space, and that FJ wanted to come. No one said they didn't want you there FJ to my knowledge. Although I am not sorry for my actions I am sorry you percieved I made you into the "bad guy"....that was not my intention, nor do I beleive it was done.
The recent incidents ie. FJ asking my alt to be gkicked from Redeemed have just been salt on an old wounds that have been left to fester for over a year. I need time and space to heal.
I am unaware of any debate about inviting FJ to Onyxia. When he asked for an invite, I did ask if we could have some space between us. He still wanted an invite so I obliged by passing leader and bowing out of the group in order to get the space I needed. I NEVER said FJ couldn't come. I explained on vent I needed to go..I needed some space, and that FJ wanted to come. No one said they didn't want you there FJ to my knowledge. Although I am not sorry for my actions I am sorry you percieved I made you into the "bad guy"....that was not my intention, nor do I beleive it was done.