MC, Team Eternity, and your Questions

Deamiter said:
Love you to! This seems like a bit of an odd statement -- you thought you would lend a hand by stipulating that only Redeemed members can lead raids?
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No one ever said such a thing as that.

Deamiter said:
Indeed, I think I have been in ONE MC that wasn't run by Avesther, and that was when he was offline for the weekend with Goblit. I was always told that Team Eternity is not a Redeemed run that invites others, but a team of raiders that is just supported by the Redeemed website.

I think that's the understanding most of us had. The lack of communication abut this being mainly a Redeemed run until now makes this apparently new stipulation seem odd to many of us.
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These runs have always been a Redeemed led run. Why? Because the people who led it were in Redeemed. There is still a Redeemed run. We will not be using their Vent because it is no longer Redeemed's vent, it is Sanctification's. There are plenty of people in Redeemed who make excellent raid leaders, such as Fjorboug and Icthus. They have led many successful runs in MC and Onyxia. We are hammering out the Details of a new vent for Redeemed and there will be more info on that later. Just because Goblit and Avesther leave Redeemed, that doesnt bring "new stipulations". The stipulations were there all along. If Sword of Fate had led the MC runs, it would have been Sword of Fate's MC, not Redeemed.

Deamiter said:
We're signed up for the run lead by Avesther. Sanctification's site will be a week or so until it's up so it's just written down for now.
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If you are so occupied with Team Eternity's progression on Mc, wouldnt you have signed up on the PhP site like Yucky said?
 
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Dukatt said:
I have a question. If it is all sunshine and lollipops and we members of Sanctification are welcome to the Redeemed runs why have the people that left redeemed been taken off of the DKP site? Where is our history with this raid, where is the representation of our DKP that we earned running this for the last few months? If the members of Sanctification do run MC with Redeemed in any fashion am I to assume that we will be starting fresh with our DKP?
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Whose DKP is missing?
 
Odale said:
No one ever said such a thing as that.
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Are you then saying that Avesther is now allowed to lead the run?

These runs have always been a Redeemed led run. Why? Because the people who led it were in Redeemed. There is still a Redeemed run. We will not be using their Vent because it is no longer Redeemed's vent, it is Sanctification's.
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I remember when ToJ thought it was extremely important that the server was labeled the "unofficial" Redeemed vent server.

The stipulations were there all along. If Sword of Fate had led the MC runs, it would have been Sword of Fate's MC, not Redeemed.
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The one raid Avesther didn't attend was co-lead by Fj and Mystique as far as I remember.
If you are so occupied with Team Eternity's progression on Mc, wouldnt you have signed up on the PhP site like Yucky said?
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I'm not sure why you think I'm "so occupied with Team Eternity's progression..." I was signed up on the php site, but when I found that Avesther was not welcome to lead the raid, I joined his raid instead. If the timing worked out, I would LOVE to join the raid lead by FJ as well.

Of course, I'd love to join raids that were co-lead! I think that's a serious possibility too!
 
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Deamiter said:
Are you then saying that Avesther is now allowed to lead the run?...
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No one has said anything about Avesther leading or not leading an MC. I know he makes a great leader, I have raided beside him many times. If there is a Sanctification MC, great. If not, your welcome to come on the Redeemed MC.
 
I said an MC, not necessarily Team Eternity's MC. He has chosen to leave Redeemed and that entails leaving his post as well, he is fully aware of that. He made numerous posts in the officers forums. I have told avesther numberous times that I support his decision, and that hasnt changed.
 
Fine, so be it. I have seen nothing but bitterness from both sides, arguing and such....if this is what this will bring to the table then I will not lead a run into MC for Redeemed members\Team Eternity. Fj is hanging up his coat and taking some time off as of now. You may see me online, I may or may not respond....more likely not as I may need some time to sift through this. I will stay in Redeemed. I will say that the childishness displayed by both guilds and members has been incredulous over all of this. It has been enough to make my wife stand in front of me as my hands were trembling from anger so I would no longer type, enough to make me cry, a tremendous lack of unrest, enough to make me realize that this is not worth it. I am seriously considering cancelling my account....For those who joined sanctification, my heart goes out to you....I truly believed that christians united in ONE guild would work for every type of player in WoW, be they hardcore radiers, ministers, socialites, etc. The lack of respect shown on both sides to one another is further proof that we as people can be quite sad to look at; getting worked up over something so simple when there are so many more important things going on in the world to be worked up over. Take a minute to think about the unsaved people out there that we are wasting time not reaching out to by doing this, the believers that are struggling out there that see us putting on this display, the younger ones in both guilds that have to bear witness to this, the gigantic amount of fun Satan is having watching this unfold before us all, and the look on Christ's face as this continues. I will be in prayer for all of you, and my hopes are that this can be resolved QUICKLY and in a Christ-like manner. For those pushing to make things worse by arguing, slinging mud, spreading falsifications, backstabbing, or otherwise....I truly hope the Lord exacts His vengeance upon you. I for one am backing out and asking for forgiveness from everyone, and forgiveness for myself from God. I am too broken to continue on from here....and need to stop as tears stream down my face now. I love oyu all, and hope to be back in a unified place with you soon.
 
I said an MC, not necessarily Team Eternity's MC. He has chosen to leave Redeemed and that entails leaving his post as well, he is fully aware of that. He made numerous posts in the officers forums. I have told avesther numberous times that I support his decision, and that hasnt changed.
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Ah. My point is that it was never before stipulated that Team Eternity raids must be lead by Redeemed members. This is evidenced by the co-leading of an MC raid by Fj and Mystique.

Rules are great and all, but when you start making (or just enforcing) them at times like this, you are essentially turning it into "us or them." Most of the people in Sanctification that I've talked to assumed that Avesther would still be leading the Team Eternity runs. That you've decided that even co-leading is not an option has made it very polarized when most members in both guilds would still much rather we work together!
 
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Oh Fj! I'm so sorry it's affecting you so negatively! While some people have personal issues, I have noticed that the vast majority that I've talked to (in both guilds) hold no bitterness in their hearts!

Redeemed will certainly go on as the wonderful guild it has always been, and now Sanctification offers a guild focused on raiding. Tension is high now, but friendships will continue and this CERTAINLY isn't a split focused on spiritual issues!

I'll pray for you and everybody who has been hurt in the past few weeks. No matter what happens, God is there and is leading we his children in furthering His glory!
 
Tensions are running quite high in this thread. Let us all take a step back and take a collective breath.


Who leads these runs, and how they are carried out and go forward, is going to be a decision which has to be made by the leaders of Redeemed and Sanctification. But from my understanding, Team Eternity started out, and has always been (and excuse me for using CS phrases here, but I'm not current on WoW lingo) a ToJ Competition-style team. A subset of the WoW Chapter, which happened to be lead by God's Peon.

As such, it does not matter who leaves the Guild or where they go, TE is a part of ToJ, and it should be a MEMBER OF ToJ who leads it.

Now do note, that nowhere in that statement does it say that it has to be a member of Redeemed who leads it. AFAIK, God's Peon left the WoW Guild Redeemed, and at no time did he stop being a member of ToJ. (GP, if I'm wrong in that statement say so, but that's what I got from your "decision" post).



I am strongly urging all the leaders to sit down in vent, in an AIM Chat and hash this out amongst yourselves. If you can't do that in a civil and timely way then get Genesis to help as she is ToJ's Conflict Mediator.


I am close to locking this thread, and if the tension level does not decrease in this discussion, a lock will occur.
 
Ephesians 4:26 - "In your anger do not sin" : Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry"

I just wanted to share this verse with you guys. I know that there are grudges being held towards those that have left Redeemed by some that have remained in Redeemed. If it's hurt that has turned into anger, take a step back, take a deep breath, and pray a little. It also helps to talk to someone. On that note, my ears are always open and always ready to listen.
 
I came to the knowledge of this thread last night but was to tired to look at it. I still don't have time as I have a meeting in 30 minutes. Kidan is very right, I'm still a member of ToJ. I never stepped down from ToJ. I stepped down from ToJ leadership and left Redeemed. I'm still held accountable to the ToJ charter and ToS and everything else just like everybody else who is in Redeemed.
 
Thank you Meli and Quantam. I loved both those passages!

Reading back through the thread, I realize that there is something I haven't made clear. While I have strong views about how we can best move from here, I am not angry -- certainly not at anybody specific! As always, forums are horrible for conveying emotions -- and I'm bad enough at getting nuances right in person. If you have read animosity or bitterness into my posts, please forgive me and know that I intended no such thing.
 
I want to apologize for my attitude that my posts portrayed. I admit that i wrote them with anger. I do not agree with Redeemed members leaving the guild just to be able to raid with Goblit and Avesther. If they are still going to lead a raid, wouldnt they invite you? Seeing all these people leave Redeemed makes me sick to my stomach, I have had numerous people ask me in tells "Whats going on?", "Why are they doing this?" I cannot answer those questions. You've all made your choices, I will have to get used to them.
 
For the few that might have seen my "Flesh Flash" this morning, I really apologize. I woke up and instead of going to God first I went to the forums. I apologize for the negativeness in my posts and deleted them. I hope you guys can forgive me and I want you to know that I do love you all.

When I listen to my heart and not my pride/flesh, I am reminded of all the great times I had with everyone in TE and that is what counts. I choose not to let this split ruin those memories. You guys are my friends, my brothers and sisters.

Forgive me, I was wrong.
 
ewoksrule said:
For the few that might have seen my "Flesh Flash" this morning, I really apologize. I woke up and instead of going to God first I went to the forums. I apologize for the negativeness in my posts and deleted them. I hope you guys can forgive me and I want you to know that I do love you all.

When I listen to my heart and not my pride/flesh, I am reminded of all the great times I had with everyone in TE and that is what counts. I choose not to let this split ruin those memories. You guys are my friends, my brothers and sisters.

Forgive me, I was wrong.
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Nice job Mike. Forgiveness and reconcilation seem to be in short supply in this group.
 
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