Matrix Reloaded

Matrix Reloaded - Who is seeing it an what did you think?

  • Ownage!

    Votes: 32 100.0%

  • Pretty Good

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Good

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Liked the first on better

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Why did they ruin it?

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Never liked Matrix

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Don't waste money

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    32
Exactly what are you looking for as far as "depth?" The Matrix has one of the deepest plots I've ever seen in movies. In that kind of plot, special effects are kind of a necessity. I wouldn't say that they're holding the movie up on those entirely. They're doing a lot of things in both realms that have never been done before.

Crazy_Legs, the sequel will be out in November I think. The story's gotten too big at this point to cram it all into one movie (unless they made it several hours long like Lord of the Rings), and on the bright side, the movies are being released fairly close together. I mean, look at Star Wars. [exaggeration]You have to wait years just to get a couple of crummy backlot pictures in low resolution and black and white of half-finished sets...oh, then you have to wait for the cast to be picked. Okay, that's all done, we've been shooting for three months now, we'll release the movie in...2007, and then put it on DVD in 2013.[/exaggeration] Lucasfilm thinks they're way too special ;-).

And no one else is allowed to comment on the so-called "orgy." Come on, people, it was a freaking (literally) five minutes of the movie. Get over it. You're missing out on the other 85+ minutes.
 
It wasn't just the 5 minutes, the movie is filled with sexual overtones. Neo and Trinity suck face whenever they can. Zion has 2 hours before they are invaded, are they preparing for war? No they are dancing and grinding while Trinity and Neo get it on. What about the French dude with his orgasm cake I guess that's perfectly acceptable, especialy since the camera goes up the ladies legs too. I was surprised the French dude's wife only settled for a kiss from Neo.
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I better take my 9 year old cousin to see this! hardly
 
What exactly is the problem with the love scene, that has all of you raving. The only person who is spot on, AND still stands by his beliefs (which although I do not share, I do respect), is the Quake3 guy saying, simply, get over it. You will not see a movie for a couple of minutes of brief nudity? Also, what is the matter with you people, being so offended when a couple kisses? It's not like they are slurping each other's face (which I find annoying, as well, though I also find pleasurable when I do it with my partner in our own privacy).
After reading so many comments in this forum, I still do not understand these phobias. Not liking something is one thing. Completely rejecting wholes (a movie) for a small element (brief nudity, which was very tastefully done, might I add) in it, seems absurd.
 
It wasn't just that one love scene.  (which seemed out of place)  However there was a common sexual theme through out that movie.  The action was great, although nothing too new from the orginal not as earth shattering.  It's not a phobia and it's just not necessary.   I would have no problem showing the first one to my 9 year old cousin, given he may not pick up the whole thing and some violence , but I just wasn't impresses with the sequel.  I liked the first on much better.
 
It was just this one love scene. Unless of course you are talking about the dance scene, which was exactly that, a dance scene.
I was not judging the movie (which I found to be quite lacking compared to the first one and indeed my expectations, with the plot suffering the most), I was trying to understand why 90% of your discussion was focused on these 5 minutes of the movie.
You seem all too eager to dismiss the movie based on this love scene, which, once again, was indeed very tastfully presented. I am sure you have kissed and cuddled naked in your bed, so what is so insulting?
 
First of all, those of you who didn't think the effects were "earth shattering" compared to the first one - just take my word for it, you obviously do NOT know what you are supposed to be looking for. They were an order of magnitude better, given the larger scale of what the films action sequences tried to achieve.

For those of you upset because Trinity and Neo seem to have a relationship. Get over it. Given their circumstances I believe that anyone would act the same way - they spend most of their lives with zero privacy, and get probably only the first or second chance since they met to be alone together. Those who don't think the dance scene (since I didn't see ANYONE else having sex, let's not start throwing the word orgy around shall we?) was appropriate, let me simply remind you that the birthrate peaks 9 months after the start of EVERY war - why do you believe the one in Matrix would be any more different.

Personally my peeves about the movie include:

1. The Merovingian lunch + cake scene. This scene actually revealed the most important piece of information in the whole movie, outside the Architect scene. That it was buried in Gallic waffling was a bit unfortunate.

2. More effort could have been spent on explaining that the Merovingian's guards were obsolete Agents and werewolves - thus suggesting that at least one of the prior incarnations of the Matrix was Fantasy/Medieval.

Other than that - outstanding work.


Eon
 
look we are all entitled to our own opinions here, mine are not greater than yours etc.  What you think is tasteful I think was not needed in the movie.  The movie starts with Neo waking from a nightmare, Trinity is next to him, you can already assume they are sleeping together, no need to make a scene dedicated to it.  It's an action movie not a mushy romance movie.  Will you guys get it through your head that there is more than that once scene.  That was heavy dancing IMO.  But what about the french dude and orgasm cake?  The camera zooms up that chicks legs (evenin green mode so I guess it's okay)  then that girl later give him oral sex.  Its more than that one scene.  If the movie had new effects and added more plot, other than Zion is still in danger I might have enjoyed it more.  The sex stuff was the final nail in the coffin for me.  I just liked the first one better, so sue me.  if you don;t like our views, consider the forum you're on.  Granted it doesn't bother some people and that's fine.  But three of us went to see the movie and we left disappointed and all thought those scenes were tacky.

The twin warriors were cool, the multiple smiths were cool, the road scene was great. Stillnot as good as the first one.
 
The cake scene was the height of tackyness. We are in agreement there. The sex scene - was relationship windowdressing - I think it added impact to Trinity's reaction to Persephone's "barter" for a kiss. Lots of people sleep with each other - not all of them are as into each other as Trinity and Neo obviously are. Could it have been done differently - well, yes it could. Should it have? That's a matter of subjective opinion - it obviously bothered you (far more than the deaths of those innocent security guards and power plant workers, I notice).

The oral sex was subtly implied, if you could work it out then it's because... Well, I won't draw you a diagram.

I went to see the Matrix as a Designer. I went with two CG artists and three Programmers - one of them an effects programmer. Whilst you have the same inalienable right to express your opinion as I do, all opinions are NOT necessarily equal where matters of tradecraft and fact are concerned.

My difference of opinon with you may well be a cause to reconsider where I post, but I would humbly suggest that yours should make you consider far more weighty issues than that.

With respect, but still shaking my head...


Eon

Postscript:
I'm not going to do a rewrite - otherwise the thread won't make sense, so I'll just say "Curses!" and be glad I didn't annoy you as much as I thought. Obviously the lines about you needing to consider issues would only have applied in the case that you were relying to me.
 
Eon I was not talking to you..I was talking to the guy who confuses himself as our savior..no disrespect to you..
 
My largest complaint about the dance/love scene is that it was entirely too long. The whole fight scene with a 1000 Mr. Smith's or whatever was also entirely too long. Finally, the whole chase sequence with the key was entirely too long.Also, did we really need to see the whole scene of the girl getting killed and falling that many times? They practically showed the scene in its entirety at the beginning and ending. The Smith and chase scenes did not add anything to the story but consumed a large amount of movie time. Some of these are prime examples of them trying to show off their technological wizardry. I guess my basic problem with the movie is it should have been about an hour shorter.
 
I read your rolling stone review, and found it to be fairly well presented. I don't agree with it, but the ideas are well presented.

For an alternative, check out Salon.com, which has a review that interprets the Zion dance scene by reminding people that there WAS a time when sexuality wasn't considered to be something that messes people up. When healthy expression of desires was a GOOD and NATURAL thing, not something that should be covered up and hidden away, as if it were shameful.

Nobody in here raised a single comment about the bodycount in XMen2 - given that gratuitous death was specifically avoided in XMen1, I find that interesting.

As Michael Moore would no doubt agree, such things say more about the state of Western "civilisation" than they do about the Matrix...

Eon
 
Last I thought, sexuality really, should, umm stay in the bedroom. Really. There is no need for it to be transplanted to the movie screens or to the TV tube.
Also, umm, the Israelites aren't exempt from sexual immorality...for one, check out the Golden Calf. They had a massive orgy dedicated to two cow statues? What's up with that? (Granted Reloaded didn't have an orgy...just a different type of, umm, dance)
The Hebrews also wasted adulterers/ alduteresses/ beastiality practitioners/ homosexuals/ witches and such.
I don't think there ever WAS a time when rampant free-for-all party-all-night-long-babe gallavanting sexual fiasco come-togethers were okay to do...sure in the eyes of man, but in the eyes of God? I hardly think so. Something different about the Christian/Judaic God is that He among several thousand "Gods" frowns down on rampant sex...Baal? Dude, god of fertility right there. The Hindus? How many thousands of gods are dedicated to sex and fertility? Many. And the Hindus have no end to their gods. Ask any Hindu about the family idols. They're made-up gods for that particular family. You won't find them in a set mythos or legend of document: they make them up. Wow?
Zeus? Oh geez, don't get me started! That guy cheats on his wife so much it's hilarious. I mean, to turn into a stupid cow just to get this ONE girl? And that's it? And then strike down anyone who touches a goddess? How fair is that?
That's another notched point for reasons why I like God...He doesn't appreciate you bragging about the sex party with those "three or four chicks from down the street."

Yeah. So Eon, perhaps it was okay for a sect, a religion, heathens of the sort, and heck, it's fine today. Why shouldn't it be? I mean, duh, sex is for everyone, and if you get sick, well, umm, tough luck. Screw harder next time. That's the beauty of being American! You can do whatever you feel like so long as you don't get the federal forces upset, or make too loud of a noise. Blow up something, just make sure no one sees it. Screw the world, just make sure no one catches on. And if you really are set on the screwing part, ensure you have proper protection in all measures...and touch luck if it's just 30 million Americans with STDs. Forget them. You have a whole other 90 million to look forward to having your way with.
And if you get that guilt feeling, just ignore it. This is your life and no one has "the right" to tell you what to do about your sex life. Right?

Umm. Oh yeah. Back to the Matrix. Yeah I can't go see it because my brother and dad said there was unneeded sexual material in there. Something about a dance, a wedding cake with the Mauruvengian (Spelling or not? I just read that name in Elmer Gantry! An old French clan back int he 500s), and I think Trinity and Neo (surprise surprise). Well, uh, the great thing about the first one was: NO SEX! Wow! A totally cool movie with guns, shades, a babe, trenchcoats, robots, space chases, and no sex? How cool is that?! Then they screw it up with this? Pooh Wachowskis. Pooh.
Also, then, of course from what I was able to see from the trailers and hear from my male relatives, that show freaking rocked. The graphics were totally awesome, far superior to The Matrix, and I admit, it looked quite interesting. Were I but a graphics designer...hey, Eon, ain't that your department? What'd you think of the graphics in Reloaded? I hear they're pretty sweet...what do you say?

And the implied oral sex...yeah my bro told me about that. Ahem, yeah. Just unnecessary stuff.

But the sad part of Reloaded, I hear, is the lack of story compared to The Matrix. Werewolves, vampires, ghosts are exiled programs (or something like that)? Smith is allowed free reign in The Matrix because he was touched by Neo? So he wipes out the other agents because they're after him? And he's still after Neo because he doesn't want to become obsolete (The Obsolete Man, Twilight Zone, "The Penguin" 's actor was supposed to become obsolete) if Neo wipes out the Matrix?
Ehhh...could be better, it sounds to me. Something about a Keymaker, too...and what does the Mauruvengian have to do with it all?

The Animatrix will rock...who's going to get it? Who's seen any of the episodes (four of em available at www.whatisthematrix.com, other five out on DVD in June or July)? They rock! I gotta get the Animatrix.
 
Actually Agent Smith isn't chasing the other Agents at all, he's after Neo. And the Agents aren't obsolete - despite the addition of two other specific subset of bad guy, the Agents retain their menace (to everyone except Neo). You won't see Morpheus or Trinity win a straight fight with an Agent - only The One can do that.

And if you classify one side of the sexual liberty equation as "some heathen's and that" and dismiss them, then it's fairly easy to hold the kind of view that you do, I guess. Fact is that the Viking's had a sexual culture quite similar to our own modern day one - complete with divorce and feminine equality. The Romans, of course, coined the very word Orgy - although sexual gratification was merely a single facet to the overal gem of licentiousness. Frankly I find such ostentatious displays to bespeak a lack of control that entirely overshadows the wealth and power displayed. But that's me.

The graphics in Reloaded? Well, I'll be honest there are one or two places where you can visually spot the CGI from the Live Action filming. I don't remember that being the case for me durin the first film. HOWEVER the second film attempts to achieve a scale that first one never dared to. Personally I have no problem with shooting for the stars and reaching the moon.

I liked the plot. I didn't like Merovingian, because I think he overly baroqued what was actually the central tenet of the whole movie. I wonder how many people were too busy looking at the Orgasm cake, and missed the whole point of that scene. Maybe that's the point, I don't know...

The ending was FAR better than in the first movie... And it was very much a revelation. The first "to be concluded" ending that has been, as far as I'm concerned!


Eon
 
I thought the film was superior to the first but seemed a little pushed together. The feeling came across that they /needed/ to have a scene with amazing FX (car chase/smith fight) andf they /needed/ to have areas where they were gonan bend the plot all over (architect/oracle/all other monologues). So in that sense it was a bit rubbery but still amazing to watch. The smith fight is truely genius.

That said one thing didnt sit well in my spirit. Here in the UK we have a different classification system than in the USA.. basically..
U - Suitable for all
PG - Small children need acoompanying
12 - No under 12's
15 - No under 15's (this has been phased out for 12)
18 - No under 18's

Now with the recent lax mindset from the classification board and loads of films here being unbanned that were previously banned. The bar has been lowered to let things of an obscene nature fit into the 18 category.

Now from that things which i would consider adults only have slipped into the 15 and 12 categories. Recently they added a new category 12A ( similar to PG, under 12s must be accompanied). Now Reloaded and also X-Men2 fell into this category.

For those that have seen both, it is easily seen that the violence in X2 and the sex scene in Reloaded are ceratinly not what you would expect in a film you would show to someone aged 12. And i could argue that i have seen films classed 18 that are less gratuitous.

Just shows the way the world is going. Although the film is superb, i would sugest not to take its classification as a standard of how clean its going to be.

my 2 cents
 
Oh and the "dah dah dahhhhhhhhhh" music at the end made me wanna throw a chair at the screen.. so lame.
 
I completely agree with my comrade Tasty Wheat as we did see the movie together as well as his brother Mahfrot. The sexual overtones could have been done without. I was expecting kung fu and guns not a 10 minute long orgy scene. Dispite that the fighting once it got started was great and the story really built upon the first installment.
 
*clears it up again.

Five minutes, not ten. I can prove it. I have the Matrix Reloaded soundtrack. The theme to that scene, "Zion" by Fluke, is about 4.5 minutes long. Also, an orgy generally involves more than two people having sex.

I agree, I would've enjoyed the movie far more without the dance scene, and the new comic relief operator entering his home to demand "where's mah p****?" I didn't like that new guy much. Tank would've been much better.

Despite this, we're really detracting from our own experience of the movie so much by focusing on these parts too much. Face it, no movie is ever going to beat the first Matrix. That said, let's look more at the good aspects of Reloaded.
 
the 5min dance/porn scene was unnecessary and some action in the movie was already dated. there's nothing new about seeing someone duke it out with a bunch of pathetic thugs in a room with weapons. also if you're "the one" it shouldn't take you more than 2 seconds to clean up their clocks, not 15min. also the chase on the freeway, you already see that kind of stuff in lethal weapon along with it's predecessors.
however upon conversing with a peer of mine, i've realized that reloaded is much more philosophical than the first one. it doesn't just parallel christian theology, it's inverted having a much different proposition than what most people thought from the first.
 
I think the whole concept of having neo fight is that he is in control of inanimate objects and not sentient programs. (i.e. bullets not agents..) Also the fact he takes just as long to take em down is hinted too. Firstly upgrades, secondly exile programs with hardcore routines in to make em impossible to kill.

Anyways.. my bro got hold of the dvd of matrix2 (ahem) and i watched it again.. The second time does indeed show more philosophy and the dialogue is looped in a way you get a ton more second time round. But i skipped through the sex scene as its totally pointless. And the dance is /not/ an orgy but the see-through tops were a bit unnecessary.
 
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