Is it wrong to hate my 'Father'?

[Corpfox]

I had a voice-chat with hescominsoon a week back about this issue, and I completely forgot what I was suppose to remember.

Doesn't matter if I share this information, its not like the FBI is gonna burst in my front door and arrest me for attepted murder on a 1st degree.

Good and Bad about my Dad.

He's a Computer Technician in a small computer place. He currently lives in Paris, France. YES, FRANCE, EUROPE!

Now the Bad; He's a homosexual, or gay in short terms. He's been gay since I was born(and since he was born), so I was born from a gay father and a straight mother, NOT ADOPTED. He currently lives in Paris, France. About a day by plane away from Canada, British Columbia. I haven't seen him for almost 5 years, never spoken to him since that time, last time I wrote an e-mail to him was 3 months ago, and he never replied back......and oh yeah, he's a cheap bum, owns a apartment the size of a car garage, used cars, and pays less on the divorce payments, yes, my father and mother are divorced, that is why I've been living with my mother and sister for nearly 12 years!.


I am currently a Christian, as God as my witness. (Or a couple of you fellow Christians.) Now, the bible, from what you say, gay's cannot be christian, I agree with that, So is it wrong to hate my dad when he is gay?

To be extremely clear, I will not, and shall never become like my father! I am not GAY! I still like women, the rare types, hard working, reliable, honest, the type I'd like to have. If I had to discribe my type of girl, race; wont care, as long as they speak english, size; from my weight to the max I've chosen; 180 - 650 lbs. Age; well, older women, heh(20
s-mid 30's).IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU?

 

[Guest]

The bible doesn't say gays can not be christians, look at the protistant church, they have ordained gay clerics. He's your farther how can u hate him. I know he doesn't spend alot of time with u, but he gave u life. I've gotten mad at my dad a few times, but hate is a pretty strong word. And hateing him just because he's gay is wrong.

Ofcource I don't know everything about your relationship with him, but from what I've read it seems that u love him alot, y else would u make an attempt to email him 3 months ago.

 

[Avesther]

Quote[/b] ]Now, the bible, from what you say, gay's cannot be christian, I agree with that, So is it wrong to hate my dad when he is gay?

I am going to challange anybody to actually back up (not you CorpFox, you are exempt from this challange, allthoug, if you want to take it up, go for it) that homosexuals can not be Christian.

Jesus died so that all sinners could be reconciled to God. This is the good news for everybody to hear. That no matter what sins they have committed, no matter how bad they think they are, no matter how lost they believe they are, no matter how hopeless somebody tells them they are, God provided the means of reconcilliation.

In Gods eyes, all sins are equal. None are worse then others. Being a sinner means that you can not be reconciled to God. So, we can actually refrase the question: Can you be a theif and a Christian? Can you be an adulturer and a Christian? Yes. When we become Christians, we were all sinners. And our earthly bodies continue to sin afterwards as well. If a homosexual gives his life to Christ today and accepts Jesus as his Lord and savior right now and then walks out their front door, only to be a victim of a drive by shooting by some fringe anti-gay person and dies, does that person not go to heavan?

If you answered that they do not, then let me refraise the story. A person is a theif all thier life. They are caught and sentanced to death. He is unrepentant until he is on a cross. At which time he meets Jesus in the person and gives his life over to him. Jesus promised him that he would be with him in paradise that day. Well, the theif didn't get much chance to live life as a christian as we define it.

What if the person says he gave his life to Jesus years ago and is still a practicing homosexual? Well, that is getting into the area of judging a persons salvation and I am not qualified to do that. Jesus warned us about judging others as we will be judged by the same weights and measures we used. Honestly, I don't want that to happen to me, I have some pretty unfair weights and measures, I'd be doomed.

As far as, is it wrong to hate your dad because he is gay? If you trully believe that Jesus has risen and proclaim him as your personal savior and Lord, then if you were to be hit by a bus today, you too will be in paradise. As you walk with Jesus, you will begin to change. God doesn't change your world, God changes you. Your perceptions will be challanged and you will change. I would hope that you would begin to love your father as you mature with Jesus, not because you have to. But because you begin to see things in yourself that you hate and despise but have come to an understanding that Jesus loves you despite it.

In essence, you start to love your father despite his shortcomings because Jesus loves you despite your shortcomings. This doesn't happen today, it likely won't happen tommorrow either. It is part of how we mature as Christians. Christianity is based on our relationship with Jesus. And as with our relationships grow and mature with friends and family, so will our relationship with God.

 

[Guest]

being gay is not a sin.

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] ]"Anyone who curses his father or mother shall be put to death; since he has cursed his father or mother, he has forfeited his life.

And I was reading Leviticus 11:1-12 and I hope none of u guys have eaten shellfish or pig because teir unclean. So if anyone quotes Leviticus 18:22 or Leviticus 20:13, they better of not eatten shellfish.

And I know Jesus said that nothing u put into your mouth can defile u, but it really doesn't matter because thats not right how do u know the rest of Leviticus is right.

Quote[/b] ]"Well did Isaiah prophesy about you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me
In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines human precepts.'
You disregard God's commandment but cling to human tradition."
He went on to say, "How well you have set aside the commandment of God in order to uphold your tradition!
For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and 'Whoever curses father or mother shall die.'
Yet you say, 'If a person says to father or mother, "Any support you might have had from me is qorban"' 4 (meaning, dedicated to God),
you allow him to do nothing more for his father or mother.
You nullify the word of God in favor of your tradition that you have handed on. And you do many such things."

Quote[/b] ]Stop judging, that you may not be judged.
For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you.Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye?
How can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove that splinter from your eye,' while the wooden beam is in your eye?You hypocrite, 3 remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother's eye

Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, neither slave nor free, neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

Paul wrote Romans from Corinth, the second largest city in the empire and the crossroads of world trade and culture. Pausanius observed at about the same time as Paul that there were over 1,000 religions in Corinth. The most prominent were the fertility cult of Aphrodite, worship of Apollo, and the Delphi Oracle, which was across the bay from Corinth. Paul's readers would have been aware of the religious climate from which he wrote Romans and would have understood Paul a lot better than we do

As from what I can see the Bible is not the word of god, Jesus is th word of god, and Jesus never said anything about gays, he did have an opinion on everything else.

 

[Avesther]

Quote[/b] ]And I was reading Leviticus 11:1-12 and I hope none of u guys have eaten shellfish or pig because teir unclean. So if anyone quotes Leviticus 18:22 or Leviticus 20:13, they better of not eatten shellfish.

Unclean cerimonially.  In otherwords, you couldn't go to the tabernacle while unclean.  Nothing stopping people from quoting verses.


As to what did Jesus say about the sexually immoral:

Revelation 22:14,15 (Jesus speaking)

Quote[/b] ]Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.  Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

*** Edit

This is getting off topic, so I think I am done with it.  If you want to discuss homosexuality in christianity, start a new thread, or revive one of the dozen or so old ones.

Lets stick to CorpFox's original question:  Is it wrong for him to hate his father, even though he is gay?

**** Double edit

Unless CorpFox doesn't mind this thread going into a tangent. I leave it up to him as to what he wants.

 

[Guest]

Well corps original question was is hating his farther because he's gay ok. But since I don't think the bible really gives clear evidence that being gay is a sin, I don't think u should hate him for that.

Revelation 22:14,15

Quote[/b] ]Blessed are they who wash their robes so as to have the right to the tree of life and enter the city 9 through its gates.
Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the unchaste, the murderers, the idol-worshipers, and all who love and practice deceit.

I use the new american bible, because the vatican gives it a ok. Unchast is non virgins.

 

[Avesther]

NLT: The sexually immoral
KJV: whoremongers
NKJV: The sexually immoral
NASB: immoral persons
RSV: fornicators
Webster: lewd men
Young: whoremongers
Darby: the fornicators
ASV: the fornicators
HNV: the sexually immoral
NIV: the sexually immoral
NAB: the unchaste

---

If you want a definition of sexual immorality in accordance with the bible:

Leviticus 18 has a very comprehensive listing of unlawful (immoral) sexual relations. Homosexuality is listed in black and white in verse 22.
---

 

[Guest]

a little off topic but

Quote[/b] ]The Greek phrase para physin is commonly translated into the English word "unnatural". This is an error. Unnatural implies that the act is morally condemned. In Greek, the phrase really means "that which is beyond the ordinary and usual." "Unconventional" would be a good word to have used.

Quote[/b] ]Some liberal Christians interpret this verse as referring to temple prostitution, which was a common practice in the rest of the Middle East at that time. They note that to’ebah, often translated "abomination", is a religious term, usually reserved for use against instances of idolatry. If the writer(s) of Leviticus wished to refer to a moral violation, a sin, he would have used the Hebrew word zimah. The word "abomination" that we see in English translations of the Bible could better be translated "foreign religious cult practice." The Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures (circa 3rd century BCE) translated "to’ebah" into Greek as bdelygma, which meant ritual impurity.

One source (4) makes a word-for-word translation of this verse from the original Hebrew as:

And with a male thou shalt not lie down in beds of a woman; it is an abomination.

In modern day English this could be translated as:

Men may not engage in homosexual sex while on a woman’s bed; it is an abomination

That is, "rather than forbidding male homosexuality, it simply restricts where it may occur." This may seem a strange prohibition to us today, but was quite consistent with other instructions in Leviticus which involve improper mixing of things that should be kept separate. e.g. ancient Israelites were not allowed to mix two crops in the same field, or make cloth out of two different raw materials. or plow a field with an ox and a donkey yoked together. A woman’s bed was her own. Only her husband was permitted there, and then only under certain circumstances. Any other use of her bed would be a defilement.

 

[Master~Plan]

Quote[/b] ] am currently a Christian, as God as my witness.

praise God! I am so happy right now  That makes you and me brothers now  

as far as your father, I'm sorry, but I don't know what to tell you. I have no idea how you feel. Pray to God. God can hear you, lucky for us God is not dead in a tomb. Your going to get a lot of advice from people like me over the internet, but when it comes down to it, we don't know your life or what we are talking about. God knows, and he knows just the right thing to say. I am a witness to God's knowledge. Take it for what its worth.

Quote[/b] ]I am going to challange anybody to actually back up

^ way to keep em in check peon

Quote[/b] ]if you are knowingly committing a sin and refuse to repent then you have not committed yourself to Jesus.  If you ahve not truly committed your life to Jesus you are not going to heaven.."no one comes to the father except by me".

A verse that backs up what your saying better is Hebrews 10:26. That is the scariest verse I have ever read. Probably one of the reasons Martain Luthur didn't include Hebrews Ester and some other books in his Bible....

Quote[/b] ]being gay is not a sin.

are we reading the same Bible?

Quote[/b] ]As from what I can see the Bible is not the word of god, Jesus is th word of god, and Jesus never said anything about gays, he did have an opinion on everything else.

From what you can see? who are you? are you a prophet? Did God tell you to denounce the Bible as the word of God? if not your a heretic, and I don't toss around the label heretic lightly...

 

[Avesther]

Quote[/b] (Master~Plan @ June 30 2004,1:57)]

Quote[/b] ]I am going to challange anybody to actually back up

^ way to keep em in check peon

Quote[/b] ]if you are knowingly committing a sin and refuse to repent then you have not committed yourself to Jesus.  If you ahve not truly committed your life to Jesus you are not going to heaven.."no one comes to the father except by me".

A verse that backs up what your saying better is Hebrews 10:26. That is the scariest verse I have ever read. Probably one of the reasons Martain Luthur didn't include Hebrews Ester and some other books in his Bible....

I think there could be a whole bible series of bible studies for a decade on the subject:

Can a sinner be a christian?

It is a bit more general then "Can a homosexual be a Christian?"

I think there is a definate distinction between knowingly continuing to sin after gaining knowledge of the truth and struggling with the sin in our lives after salvation.


(I am going to start a new post on this idea.)

 

[Corpfox]

To let you know now; Before I was born, my father was a Christian.  And the word homosexual just means liking the same......sex, so even tho my dad is......sexually......gay, that's still not wrong?

Quote[/b] ]but from what I've read it seems that u love him alot, y else would u make an attempt to email him 3 months ago.

he sent a message that is almost a year after the attempt to email him 3 months ago...

2003, I sent him a message of how I was doing, that sort of thing. 2004 (one year later), he replies me back that message from last year ago. soooooo, my attempt to email him 3 months ago could last up to a year of a reply from that message.

 

[chicien]

Well this is my first post and my words may have no bearing however i wish to impart some words of wisdom here. First of the bible clearly states homosexuality is a sin. The bible lists many things as sin. So should you hate you father for being gay? My answer is no but that doesn't mean you have to say his lifestyle is correct. It sounds trite but what i am saying is hate the sin without hating the sinner.

I think of my parents who orphaned me at six years old. I hate what they did but i have had to forgive them. It is much easier to wallow in hatred then to forgive and satan will use any openings he can to diverting you from God's path.

 

[Atown]

ive held back on this topic even though ur awesome corp i just dislike postin on these kinds of topics becuase im useally wrong but i think i can give somethin of worth here: as chicien said hate the sin not the sinner, remember we are all called to love everyone thats what the Bible says and thats what God does everyday. as for your father goes, maybe through e-mail you can try and evangelize to him, be worth a try

 

[Mr.Bill]

Quote[/b] (chicien @ June 30 2004,10:38)]My answer is no but that doesn't mean you have to say his lifestyle is correct.

'Correct' is a scary word to use there.. Yes, in the eyes of a Christian that is the appropriate opinion, but it is not the be all end all of human existence. We must always be tolerant of others' belief systems, just as we would expect them to be tolerant of ours.

 

[Atown]

1 qoute i remember is: theres no difference between right and wrong but there is one between Good and Evil.

 

[Mr.Bill]

It's all relative.

 

[Master~Plan]

^ the truth is not relative

 

[Guest]

Look corp personally I don't think being gay is a sin.
If u want to hate your dad u can, but dont do it because he's gay. Do it because he hit u or something.
He's replied to your letters even though its taken mre than a year sometimes. That shows he cares.

 

[Mr.Bill]

Quote[/b] (Master~Plan @ July 03 2004,9:16)]^ the truth is not relative

Oh, but everything is relative. Even truth, as it is as much a perception as a state of being.