Is it wrong to hate my 'Father'?

[Master~Plan]

^you don't have to believe in God for Him to exist. I don't think anyone who got killed by the Angel of Death, believed in him.
My hair is a dirty blonde color, thats the truth. If you want to pretend to be a nihilist because you think its cool, go for it, but the nihilist logic doesn't hold strong. (and in case your not nihilist, Nietzsche is dead...)

 

[Mr.Bill]

Pretend to be a nihilist because it's cool? Come on man, it's not nice to try and stereotype people. I'm more of an existentialist anyway, but not even. Truth will always be relative, just like everything else, becuase it is fundamentally based on perception. No one knows what truth is, everyone has their own belief of what it is. Ever read any Descartes?

 

[Master~Plan]

Quote[/b] ]Ever read any Descartes

maybe I have...

many people seem to have a profound perception of a relative truth, but when it comes down to it, they are all talk and no trousers.

Is stealing really wrong, or is just our culture that made it wrong? You can say its relative to cultures. The Gypsy(sp?) think if you can steal from someone you are smarter than them. So I guess you might argue that in thier culture, because thier parents have taught thier kids to steal, and the kids don't know any better, that stealing is not wrong for a Gypsy. Then one would go further to say that all deeds "good" and "bad" are relative. Its a great phislisophical argument, but thats all its good for. When someone who believes in a "relative truth" has thier daughter kidnaped, raped, and killed; All of a sudden, they see what morals are. They don't analyze and say "gee stinks that that happened to my daughter, but I guess the rapist didn't know my right, and he must have his own relative truth, so I'll just have to let it go..." no- the believer of a relative truth immidiatly wants justice. Any form of justice then disproves a relative truth...

Its like Kidan said (in the excommunication thread I think) you can sin in ignorance. God gave us the rules. He made the world, and it came complete with rules and regulations for the inhabitants. You can do wrong, and not know it. God is not relative. I know, I read how you don't believe in God, and you don't believe in Hell. Thats fine, just tell that to Jesus Christ in the end of time, when you are standing in front of Him, and he has the Book of Life open, and the whole world is bowing before God. See if God buys your story, but I guess because we had this little chat, you can't plea ignorance so I guess you'll have to start thinking of something else...

But no one has to stubbornly reject God, after all its like Jesus said in Matt 12:7

 

[Mr.Bill]

Quote[/b] (Master~Plan @ July 05 2004,11:26)]

Off topic: could you change your font color? When it's blue on blue it's really hard to read..

You seem to be saying that someone who 'believes in relative truth' doesn't think that things like rape and murder are wrong. Yes, doing so would denote the existence of morals, but that does not mean that those morals are universal. Everyone has morals, but no two sets are exactly alike. You say that there is one universal morallity, which may be true, but perhaps not for the same reasons as you are thinking. We all have different beliefs but one thing remains constant; we are all humans, all susceptable to the same instinctual drives. I guess I won't go into that..meh. Anyway, my whole point is that you can't approach this from the angle you're coming at; you're assuming that the Christian way of thinking is THE fundamental system of morallity from which all truth is taken. If you're going to go after truth, you have to leave behind all things that could concievably be influenced by human imperfections, as Descartes did with his approach to philosophy...that's why I mentioned him. Now, yes, you believe with all your soul that there is a God, and that he made the world and all the rules, and that those rules are the ones which all of humankind must follow. I'm not trying to discount your religion--that would just create a logical fallacy--I'm just trying to explain to you why no one really knows what truth is. Thery think they know, they're pretty darn sure, but positive? Maybe you think you're positive, but you can never be absolutely sure. Is that really relevant? Meh, when it comes down to it, not really. But it's a good thing to keep in mind...

 

[Guest]

This might be way off topic. But I was watching a biography of Hugh Hefner and he was talking about him having 7 GFs at the same time and he thought what he was doing was moraly right. Since all his GFs knew that they were all dating him, and everything else. And he was open about it, so no one was getting hurt. But in some ways it makes sense, he's enjoying his life, he's not hideing anything and lieing to any of his GFs so wouldn't that be moraly right. Or does it depend on what is culturaly excepted.
Plus I don't think there's any man in the world that wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

 

[Avesther]

Quote[/b] ]If you're going to go after truth, you have to leave behind all things that could concievably be influenced by human imperfections,

To assume we haven't done so already would be to discount the fundamental underlying basis of Christianity: Freely choosing to leave behind all things that could concievably be influenced by human imperfections.

I can't speak for everybody here, but I have considered other "truths" and found them all to be unfullfilling or self centered or based on how you feel today.

If you choose to live in a world of relative and changing truths, based on popularity or political correctness, enjoy to your hearts content. I hardly see how accepting an unmoving standard of truth and morallity can be considered a foolish decision made without consideration of the alternatives.

The reality is, I used to live in that world you want me to go back and consider. I say no to your offer. Been there, done that, won't go back.

 

[Avesther]

Quote[/b] ]Plus I don't think there's any man in the world that wouldn't want to be in his shoe

Think again.

 

[Master~Plan]

^ ten four peon

Mr. Bill all you really did was repeat that no one knows the truth for sure... I don't know what to tell you

Quote[/b] ]assuming that the Christian way of thinking is THE fundamental system of morallity from which all truth is taken.

not exactly. I don't make assumptions

Quote[/b] ]one thing remains constant; we are all humans, all susceptable to the same instinctual drives.

Quote[/b] ]you have to leave behind all things that could concievably be influenced by human imperfections, as Descartes did with his approach to philosophy...

your kind of walking into a paradox. A human can not choose to leave behind human flaws, thats why I trust in a perfect God.

Quote[/b] ]just trying to explain to you why no one really knows what truth is.

ok, this is a statment a lot of people make, and it can't reasonably be said. Your statement that "no one can really know truth", is a absolute statement of truth. It is self defeating. You may not believe others to know truth, but thats your opinion. You have to acknowledge the fact that your just speculating if you make that statement.

Quote[/b] ]Thery think they know, they're pretty darn sure, but positive?

wouldn't mold my whole life around something I wasn't positive about.

Quote[/b] ]Maybe you think you're positive, but you can never be absolutely sure.

don't try to tell me what I do, and do not know.

Quote[/b] ]Is that really relevant?

only as relevant as you choose to make it...

 

[Guest]

well peon your married. So ofcorce u won't want 7 hot chicks because u love your wife. But personally even though I was at a wedding this weekend, I'm not sure if everyone has to get married, I can have a GF and kids and live together forever without having a piece of paper. As Opera said "How do u tell someone that u're going to love them and live with them till the day u die".
Ofcource I've never loved a girl enough to ask myself if I want to live with her for the rest of my life. I just want to have a good time.
wow I think thread has gone way off topic. Sry about that.

 

[Mr.Bill]

Hmm.  This is difficult for me to explain to this audience...  I didn't mean for this to go this far, becuase I didn't have very high expectations for philosophy assimilation...buuut...oh well, here goes nothing.  You're kind of getting and missing the point at the same time.  I'm not trying to discount your beliefs, or change them, or make you have doubts; I'm just saying that you CAN do those things, that they are not outside the realm of possibility.  By understanding this you keep a flexibility, rather than turning all eyes from other thoughts.  All I'm saying is that there is no way we can KNOW for absolution that our beliefs are precisely correct--doing so would negate the very purpose of believing, wouldn't it?  When you believe something, you are not tied to the same constrictions necessary for knowing something; you know this.  If your beliefs are based soley on facts, then they're not beliefs, now are they?  You can believe that the facts are facts, but it's still just a belief, and you're still not positive.  What's the point of thinking this way?  ..I'm sorry..I've typed it out a dozen different ways, but I keep coming to the same conclusion..that this is impossible to argue.  Oof, I hate it when that happens...oh well, I guess I feel kind of silly talking so extensively on this anyways.

 

[Kidan]

Quote[/b] (JoBlow @ July 06 2004,12:04)]. As Opera said "How do u tell someone that u're going to love them and live with them till the day u die".

you do this by getting married.

 

[Mr.Bill]

Quote[/b] (JoBlow @ July 05 2004,4:24)]This might be way off topic. But I was watching a biography of Hugh Hefner and he was talking about him having 7 GFs at the same time and he thought what he was doing was moraly right. Since all his GFs knew that they were all dating him, and everything else. And he was open about it, so no one was getting hurt. But in some ways it makes sense, he's enjoying his life, he's not hideing anything and lieing to any of his GFs so wouldn't that be moraly right. Or does it depend on what is culturaly excepted.
Plus I don't think there's any man in the world that wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

Enjoying your life does not translate to a life riddled with sexual pleasures. That's your hormones talking.

 

[Guest]

Yeah but y get married if u can be together without it. Opera doesn't believe in marriage, and in some way I agree with her.

 

[Mr.Bill]

Quote[/b] (JoBlow @ July 06 2004,10:27)]Yeah but y get married if u can be together without it. Opera doesn't believe in marriage, and in some way I agree with her.

Marriage is symbolic of the affectionate bond between two people. You can be together without being married, but it's just not the same. Perhaps it's something you'll only understand after experiencing it yourself.

 

[Avesther]

Marriage takes commitment. Unfortunatly, there are very few people left in this world actually willing to commit to something. Its so easy to divorce or go with the flow of political correctness or popular opinion because everybody else is.

It actually takes something special to commit to something and see it through to its end, no matter how difficult the trial. Things get tough, most people bolt out the door to safe face instead of sticking through the fire to build character.

Should we really expect anything different from the tribe of many me wants in this day an age of instant self gratification. I may be an old fuddy duddy, but, happiness is simpler to attain and keep when you serve and commit yourself to the ones you love.

 

[Guest]

mariage is politicaly correct. Who says u can't live with someone without getting married and stay together for the rest of your life.

 

[Mr.Bill]

Quote[/b] (JoBlow @ July 06 2004,11:25)]mariage is politicaly correct. Who says u can't live with someone without getting married and stay together for the rest of your life.

I believe he was alluding to the gay marriage fiasco of late. And you can live with someone without getting married--by all means, go ahead--but I warn you that your relationship probably won't be as substantial. It's a psychological thing.

 

[Avesther]

Actually, you have it backwards. Living together without marriage is todays trend:


From Stats Can

Quote[/b] ]Overall, Canada's marriage rate is declining. In 1989, 190,600 marriages were recorded, but by 1996, this number had fallen 18% to just 156,700. This pattern is reflected in other nations as well.

Quote[/b] ]Common-law unions tend to be temporary and transitory, but often transform into marriage. Those marriages, however, break up far more frequently than marriages that were not born out of common-law relationships.

Seems the experts disagree with you JoBlow.

 

[Guest]

well most of the common law relationships are gay I think. Ofcource now that gay mariages are legal that percentage is going to go down.

Well living together before marriage is a good thing u learn alot about the person.

But I don't think being in a common law relationship is a trend, atleast not to me since I come from a pretty religious family. I'm not saying I'll never get married but asking whats the point if u can live together without it and live happily ever after. Just one of those questions that go through my head.

 

[Avesther]

Quote[/b] ]well most of the common law relationships are gay I think. Ofcource now that gay mariages are legal that percentage is going to go down

Uhm, not entirely true. Last time I saw a stat on it, only 1% of common law marriages in Canada were gay.

Quote[/b] ]Well living together before marriage is a good thing u learn alot about the person.

In reality it isn't.

Quote[/b] ]but asking whats the point if u can live together without it and live happily ever after.

Again, the trend and the reality states your assessment is wrong.