How do you feel about "physician-assisted suicide"?

My general opinion is that laws need to be based on more than the Bible/theology.
Why? You have something better to base them on? Flawed human reasoning perhaps?
Laws should be neutral to religion -- for example, if a law was created outlawing the use of God's name in vain, that would be considered a violation of people's rights.
People have no rights aside from what God gives us, and He has not given us the right to take his name in vain
(for example, murder is outlawed because of the negative impact upon society that it has and because it causes unnecessary harm to another person).
No, murder is outlawed because it's wrong.

That said, the teachings of the Bible do overlap with laws
It doesn't just overlap, all law needs to be based on a biblical foundation.

On topic now. On the subject of physician assisted suicide, it's absolutely wrong. This may have been said earlier in the thread but I'll still say it.

1st Corinthians 6:19-20
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

We are not our own, we don't have any more right to murder ourselves than we have to murder others. To commit suicide is the epitome of selfishness, it brings pain to others, it robs God of the opportunity to work in our life, and it demonstrates unbelief in the sovereignty of God. Whatever suffering we may be going through is irrelevant, God has everyone where there are for a reason. Is God not still good, is He not still in control when we are terminally ill? To kill yourself (or have others help you do it) is simply the ultimate expression of dissatisfaction with the circumstances God has put in our life.

James 1:2-4
Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

If we do not endure through all trials in life we're not only doubting God (which is sin), but we're also robbing ourselves of the reward God gives to those who endure.
 
Absolutely. Relationships can still be maintained. A witness can still be given. The gospel can still be shared.
Won't be sharing much lying in bed unconscious. Or would you rather do without the painkillers?

And as for laws, it's a secular country last I recalled, and I wouldn't like it one bit if the muslims (they are in some parts of the world) force me to practice their beliefs.
 
Won't be sharing much lying in bed unconscious.

Well in that case it just went from assisted suicide to murder.

Or would you rather do without the painkillers?

Who said I didn't want painkillers? BRING THEM ON, lol Just cause I won't kill myself or have someone else do it, doesn't mean I'm not willing to relieve my pain if I can. But I understand your point. Never under estimate what God can use, he once used a donkey when no human could do the job. ;)

it's a secular country

It originally was in no way secular. In fact, there were laws that said you had to go to church or be punished. Secular schools (which I attended my whole life) just don't teach those things. It wasn't until what is considered recently, after 1900, that God was booted out of the country as the leader. They had Sunday Services IN the capital building. They had a Chaplin speak to the governing bodies. They had prayer before and after EVERY session. Most of the original founding fathers were Pastors.

The VERY FIRST Law book written by James Wilson, a major force in drafting the United States Constitution, the FIRST professor of law, and an ORIGINAL JUSTICE on the Supreme Court (did you get that ... ORIGINAL JUSTICE ... said:

"you can't have good civil law, if it's not based on divine law"

Check out some of the stuff by David Barton (Faith Of The Founding Fathers / American Heritage Series / http://www.wallbuilders.com). He tells you about what the Founding Father's wrote in their own personal writings as well as other documents not shared with us by "our government."

James McHenry - do you know who he was? Look him up. He was involved in writing the Constitution and was the first (and second) Secretary of War he said:

Public utility pleads most forcibly for the distribution of the Holy Scriptures ... [These] alone secure society, order and peace and to our courts of justice and and constitution of governments, purity, stability, and usefulness. In vain, without the Bible, we increase penal laws and draw entrenchment around our institutions. Bibles are strong in entrenchments. Where they abound, men cannot pursue wicked courses.

EVERY document written by the Founding Father's has the words "in the Year of our Lord" in them.

THIS is ABSOLUTELY a country founded on Christian beliefs, and convictions, at least up until 1900. So from 1607-the early 1900's (about 300 years) it was emphatically a Christian Nation and for the last 100 years, that has been slowly dissolved, little by little (ever hear the song 'Slow Fade?' That's what's happened to Americans.).

the muslims (they are in some parts of the world) force me to practice their beliefs

They do, in their countries. If you don't like it, then you can't live there.

I think God is quite clear in the Bible that HIS nations and peoples are to be set apart from others. He wrote HIS laws on stone tablets so that everyone would follow them. Then he sent the Holy Spirit to write them on our hearts.

Any law that is in line to what the Bible says, I do not have a problem with it being a law. If it goes against what God says, then I will find myself on the opposite side of that law.

I will let James Wilson, remember the author of the FIRST Law book, FIRST professor of law, and an ORGINAL JUSTICE of the supreme court, have the last words from THE FIRST LAW BOOK USED TO TEACH LAW:

The definition of law in the Commentaries proceeds in this manner. “Law is that rule of action, which is prescribed by some superiour, and which the inferiour is bound to obey.” A superiour! Let us make a solemn pause—Can there be no law without a superiour? Is it essential to law, that inferiority should be involved in the obligation to obey it? Are these distinctions at the root of all legislation?

There is a law, indeed, which flows from the Supreme of being—a law, more distinguished by the goodness, than by the power of its allgracious Author. But there are laws also that are human; and does it follow, that, in these, a character of superiority is inseparably attached to him, who makes them; and that a character of inferiority is, in the same manner, inseparably attached to him, for whom they are made? What is this superiority? Who is this superiour? By whom is he constituted? Whence is his superiority derived? Does it flow from a source that is human? Or does it flow from a source that is divine? ...

Of law there are different kinds. All, however, may be arranged in two different classes. 1. Divine. 2. Human laws. The descriptive epithets employed denote, that the former have God, the latter, man, for their author.

The laws of God may be divided into the following species.

I. That law, the book of which we are neither able nor worthy to open. Of this law, the author and observer is God. He is a law to himself, as well as to all created things. This law we may name the “law eternal.”

II. That law, which is made for angels and the spirits of the just made perfect. This may be called the “law celestial.” This law, and the glorious state for which it is adapted, we see, at present, but darkly and as through a glass: but hereafter we shall see even as we are seen; and shall know even as we are known. From the wisdom and the goodness of the adorable Author and Preserver of the universe, we are justified in concluding, that the celestial and perfect state is governed, as all other things are, by his established laws. What those laws are, it is not yet given us to know; but on one truth we may rely with sure and certain confidence—those laws are wise and good. For another truth we have infallible authority—those laws are strictly obeyed: “In heaven his will is done.”

III. That law, by which the irrational and inanimate parts of the creation are governed. The great Creator of all things has established general and fixed rules, according to which all the phenomena of the material universe are produced and regulated. These rules are usually denominated laws of nature. The science, which has those laws for its object, is distinguished by the name of natural philosophy. It is sometimes called, the philosophy of body. Of this science, there are numerous branches.

IV. That law, which God has made for man in his present state; that law, which is communicated to us by reason and conscience, the divine monitors within us, and by the sacred oracles, the divine monitors without us. This law has undergone several subdivisions, and has been known by distinct appellations, according to the different ways in which it has been promulgated, and the different objects which it respects.

As promulgated by reason and the moral sense, it has been called natural; as promulgated by the holy scriptures, it has been called revealed law.

As addressed to men, it has been denominated the law of nature; as addressed to political societies, it has been denominated the law of nations.

But it should always be remembered, that this law, natural or revealed, made for men or for nations, flows from the same divine source: it is the law of God.

Nature, or, to speak more properly, the Author of nature, has done much for us; but it is his gracious appointment and will, that we should also do much for ourselves. What we do, indeed, must be founded on what he has done; and the deficiencies of our laws must be supplied by the perfections of his. Human law must rest its authority, ultimately, upon the authority of that law, which is divine.

Of that law, the following are maxims—that no injury should be done—that a lawful engagement, voluntarily made, should be faithfully fulfilled. We now see the deep and the solid foundations of human law.

It is of two species. 1. That which a political society makes for itself. This is municipal law. 2. That which two or more political societies make for themselves. This is the voluntary law of nations.

In all these species of law—the law eternal—the law celestial—the law natural—the divine law, as it respects men and nations—the human law, as it also respects men and nations—man is deeply and intimately concerned. Of all these species of law, therefore, the knowledge must be most important to man.

Those parts of natural philosophy, which more immediately relate to the human body, are appropriated to the profession of physick.

The law eternal, the law celestial, and the law divine, as they are disclosed by that revelation, which has brought life and immortality to light, are the more peculiar objects of the profession of divinity.

The law of nature, the law of nations, and the municipal law form the objects of the profession of law.

From this short, but plain and, I hope, just statement of things, we perceive a principle of connexion between all the learned professions; but especially between the two last mentioned. Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants. Indeed, these two sciences run into each other. The divine law, as discovered by reason and the moral sense, forms an essential part of both.

From this statement of things, we also perceive how important and dignified the profession of the law is, when traced to its sources, and viewed in its just extent.


(Collected Works of James Wilson, vol. 1 > CHAPTER II.: Of the General Principles of Law and Obligation - http://oll.libertyfund.org/?option=...tle=2072&chapter=156457&layout=html#a_2774378)
 
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Wow this thread got off topic quickly, haha.

"If homosexuality exists doesn't it have it's place in our lives? If abortion exists doesn't it have a place in killing our babies? Isn't that what God wants?"

Doesn't that sound crazy?

"Hey man, if life is too tough, don't worry! God wants you to kill yourself. He made it there for you. It's ALL natural."

I'll get off my snarky soapbox....

...I think you are aware that your reply is not at all aligned with what I said.

Because it exists, that means that God has enabled it to exist. I believe that thinking otherwise is limiting God's power (which we all know is limitless). Just because it exists does not mean that God wants it.

I am surprised that no one has brought up free will yet.
 
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Hey, just pipping in here. I've been reading and lurking throughout this thread and have really been enjoying the debates/arguments/points being made here and can't express how grateful I am to be a part of this group that is mature and intelligent enough to hold such a conversation. Just a friendly reminder to remember that we are all in this together, friends and family, and to not let emotions flare up and add fire to our words, or to create fire where there originally was intended none. I'd hate to see such a stimulating debate come to a necessary end. :)
 
The thing is I can't really be born elsewhere, and the 'if you don't like it then leave' comes very close to religious discrimination. I'm glad where I live, we're free to practice whatever religion we wish, I don't want to be on the giving or receiving end of the persecution stick. I'm also glad I chose to accept Christ (well I was born into it but continued to accept...) and didn't have someone pointing a gun to my head, or be considered a second class citizen just because I don't share the majority's religion. That's why I feel the state laws should just focus on keeping the country running and letting each have his own way provided it doesn't harm his neighbor.

Sorry but I ran outta stuff to talk about the original topic, and as such, think I can leave this discussion in good faith. Don't have much right to talk about your laws since I'm not in the United States. Just saying though there's many things I hate about my current place, I like the fact that they don't systematically discriminate against anyone, unlike my parents' place where you gotta be really careful just cos you're not muslim.

We can't demand religious freedom in some part of the world, and deny others that where we dominate. As is actually happening with *a certain* religion (don't want any infarction so don't think I'm allowed to slander any other religion here, not sure if discussing other religions, particularly their ills, is allowed).
 
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