How do you feel about "physician-assisted suicide"?

This is just my opinion, so take however you wish, but I think that persevering through a terminal illness and living your life for God to the fullest(i.e. Letters to God, yes it's just a movie, but it has an amazing message behind it.) is one of the greatest testaments to faith any one person is capable of. I see the gift of life as one of the greatest gifts that God can bestow to his creations. Yeah, life seems to suck sometimes. People get sick, or die of old age. It's the circle of life. And yeah, while terminal illnesses are no fun, I think God uses them to help people see how much more there is to this life. See the hundreds of people who can come to know Christ because of a simple fundraiser that a person with a disease holds to raise awareness.

In short, people with an illness, especially a terminal one, are NOT cursed. Yeah, it's going to suck knowing that you could die at any time because of an incurable disease. But think about it, NO ONE is promised tomorrow.

And just a little side note, I could see this "Assisted Suicide" being heavily abused. What's to stop a person past their prime just ending their life?

I hope this made some bit of sense. I can get off on tangents that I don't necessarily catch, so if this is the case, I apologize and please ignore.
 
This really disturbs me:
watch their children drown instead of renouncing their beliefs.
As noble the intention is, NO ONE should think it is their right to treat their children as property. Sacrificing the good of their children for their own religious views, however noble, cannot be condoned. No one should suffer just because of their parents' political, religious or personal beliefs, HOWEVER VALID THEY ARE.

In short, people with an illness, especially a terminal one, are NOT cursed. Yeah, it's going to suck knowing that you could die at any time because of an incurable disease. But think about it, NO ONE is promised tomorrow.
True, however how many of us (ok this isn't a really random sample of the population) have that kind of iron will and faith when you are actually experiencing it? Might be even worse if you are pushed to that extent that every day you live you curse everything around you, maybe even God, blaming him for your predicament. For many, considering how lucky they are and what they have in heaven is the last thing on their minds. A few days in intense suffering is more than sufficient time for the purest of souls to turn to darkness, with the right temptations. Plenty of time to ditch Christianity altogether. If you talk to many people who lost their faith, one of the big reasons that keep coming up is 'God never did anything for me'. And as flawed as that is, I can't really blame them for saying that if they have not experienced the grace of God in their lives. As Christians we can only point our friends and loved ones to Jesus and maybe encourage them to stick with it, but eventually if their lives are not touched, it's hard to stick with it. So unless they have iron faith or are so hooked up on painkillers they don't feel a thing, this can all start with 'i wish i just died now'.
 
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This really disturbs me:

As noble the intention is, NO ONE should think it is their right to treat their children as property. Sacrificing the good of their children for their own religious views, however noble, cannot be condoned. No one should suffer just because of their parents' political, religious or personal beliefs, HOWEVER VALID THEY ARE.

Um, Jesus is the child of God whom his Father God sacrifices to save us. Not to mention the whole Abraham Isaac sacrifice thing which was a test specifically to tell who Abraham loved more God or his son.

Try changing the context. War makes children suffer whether by the destruction around them, by the absence/death of their loved ones or them directly. If you aren't willing to have your children suffering for others wars like the American Civil war should never have been fought (because white children didn't get much out of it). Does that mean battles that do not benefit you directly should not be fought? Should we capitulate to those who wage war to spread sin so our children can live to be corrupted by it? Sometimes sacrifices have to be made to have a future. Comparatively how much more important is an eternal future than one on Earth? What would a child learn from you renouncing Christ to save them? What would those killing your children learn? That you love your children more than God? That is exactly what those who persecute Christians want after all. They want validation of their non-Christian beliefs. They want to be able to say Christianity wasn't important to that guy so I can keep believing, and doing as I like (sinning). What do your children learn too? That what you've been telling them is most important is not most important after all. If I loved my children I would want to instill in them a love of God above all other things, that they might be saved eternally not just in life. They can do anything they like in life and I would be happy as long as they do it with God. Renouncing that faith would be contradictory to it. What does it profit my children to live another day but die doubting Christ (mark 8:36)? Furthermore the greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind (Matthew 36-38). To love another more does not for fill that.

On another tact to believe something is real is not merely to say it's real but to act upon it. Certainly it's hard sometimes but that's the way it is.

True, however how many of us (ok this isn't a really random sample of the population) have that kind of iron will and faith when you are actually experiencing it? Might be even worse if you are pushed to that extent that every day you live you curse everything around you, maybe even God, blaming him for your predicament. For many, considering how lucky they are and what they have in heaven is the last thing on their minds. A few days in intense suffering is more than sufficient time for the purest of souls to turn to darkness, with the right temptations. Plenty of time to ditch Christianity altogether. If you talk to many people who lost their faith, one of the big reasons that keep coming up is 'God never did anything for me'. And as flawed as that is, I can't really blame them for saying that if they have not experienced the grace of God in their lives. As Christians we can only point our friends and loved ones to Jesus and maybe encourage them to stick with it, but eventually if their lives are not touched, it's hard to stick with it. So unless they have iron faith or are so hooked up on painkillers they don't feel a thing, this can all start with 'i wish i just died now'.

Sounds Job-ish. His wife told him to curse God and die. He endured much and did not break but God still told him He could break Job if he wanted. You are correct Christians will eventually fail like everyone else that doesn't mean they should not try. Rome, Muslims, etc. you aren't the first to think suffering and fear of death can stamp out Christianity but Christianity still prospered. Lack of pain relief can drive people away from God but it can also drive them closer. Suffering on Earth is seen by many Christians as expected as the world is supposed to hate us. I've always looked at losing one's faith because of pain as illogical. If I am lost in a sea of pain why sink the only thing I can conceive of saving me? Cursing God isn't going to make my pain any less so what's the point of abandoning all hope by doing so? I'm thinking people view it as a betrayal if they don't get earthly relief but I've never viewed earthly relief as promised for believing so there is nothing to betray. God can help us on Earth but that doesn't mean he will because it may not be what is needed.

Off topic sorta: This conversation on suicide reminds me of the situation with the U.S. economy because it's the same idea. Trade future welfare for temporary relief. Now it is the future and we have to pay for it one way or another.
 
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Ok time to weigh in, I'm old enough to have lost family and friends to cancer, a brutal, mean way to go. But the question of assisted suicide never, ever entered the issues. All moments were precious, painful and sometimes bitter, but precious never the less. Moments of mirth, amusement, reflection, and joy mixed in with the pain. Never would we have shortened those moments. I have family that is left who have written wills stating no unusual life extending measures yes, but not the same as assisted suicide. My best half has made clear her wish is also to have no life extending measures. Painful yes, assisted suicide no. I agree that God is always there, and that we grow from these experiences, we learn of the immense supportive love of God, we learn how to pray, we draw closer to God. For those who don't believe in God, or rather wish not to know Him personally it is a whole different issue, without God in the picture despair looms large, without His sure and steady love how can there be hope? For a nonbeliever assisted suicide seems the only way to cope. I cannot approve of that, but I can understand the appeal of those like Dr. Jack Kevorkian who offer an easy way out. We as Christians need to take our stand in example, not noise, show that there is hope, show that in pain and suffering there is a God who cares, that we can grow in these extreme examples of pain.
 
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True, however how many of us (ok this isn't a really random sample of the population) have that kind of iron will and faith when you are actually experiencing it? Might be even worse if you are pushed to that extent that every day you live you curse everything around you, maybe even God, blaming him for your predicament. For many, considering how lucky they are and what they have in heaven is the last thing on their minds. A few days in intense suffering is more than sufficient time for the purest of souls to turn to darkness, with the right temptations. Plenty of time to ditch Christianity altogether. If you talk to many people who lost their faith, one of the big reasons that keep coming up is 'God never did anything for me'. And as flawed as that is, I can't really blame them for saying that if they have not experienced the grace of God in their lives. As Christians we can only point our friends and loved ones to Jesus and maybe encourage them to stick with it, but eventually if their lives are not touched, it's hard to stick with it. So unless they have iron faith or are so hooked up on painkillers they don't feel a thing, this can all start with 'i wish i just died now'.

Well then, are we talking just on a Christian faith view or a world view? Because that can change a few things. Christians shouldn't worry about death. I mean, I know where I'm going, and so I have no fear. A Christian with a terminal illness, GRANTED that their heart, mind, and everything else are focused on God, which I admit, is not always the case, should have no problem facing the plight of death.

Of course though, a worldly view on this would be a negative approach to God. However, not only a worldly view, but just someone who goes to church on Sunday, gives a little offering, these people feel their safe from this kind of stuff. That is totally not the case. So of course, when things go South(my dad is a perfect example) they drop from church. My dad used to be a really good Christian guy, but as soon as his dad got cancer and passed away, he was done with church and God for a while.

I can honestly attest though that the people I go to church with(lately lots of women have discovered they had breast cancer) they continue to support the church through their time and efforts. They live no differently, I mean I'm sure they've asked Why, because who doesn't, but they still push through.
 
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As noble the intention is, NO ONE should think it is their right to treat their children as property. Sacrificing the good of their children for their own religious views, however noble, cannot be condoned. No one should suffer just because of their parents' political, religious or personal beliefs, HOWEVER VALID THEY ARE.
Genesis 22
 
Ok this view may not be very biblical, but you are putting your religious views above the child's rights. Which may make more sense than passing their children through the fire for baal because ours is the 'real' religion, but it's still taking and adversely impacting a life that is not your own. Also note that genesis is from the old testament, not saying it's not valid but a lot of genocide and killing happened there too. How would you like it if a new King David rose up and put half the world to the sword? It may have been standard practice then (killing all the fighting men and enslaving the rest) but it's not acceptable practice now. Sacrificing your children to your 'god' (or God in our case) shouldn't be tolerated by modern Christians just like how war crimes should not. Also note that sacrificing of children in the fire was listed as a 'detestable practice' 'which I never requested, nor did it enter my mind' (NIV) if memory serves. However my main issue isn't with the biblical validity, slavery and genocide have little against it in the bible. I believe we must practice our faith responsibly that's all. And because I'm a Christian, I'm biased. I would be a lot more against a muslim forcing their children to go to a mosque against their wishes than against my parents who forced me to go to church. We must allow ourselves some leeway in the worldly standards to maintain spiritual ones (and thankfully Children's Church is a lot more fun and engaging with today's standards than my time 10 years ago, can see most of the kids are having fun), but not fall into extremism and neglect family, as in the case of leaving your young children to die to go overseas and preach and probably be killed/labor camp/Chinese WoW gold farm in some communist place. Not that there is anything wrong with the self sacrifice, but if you are that type, please, please don't have kids.

Now on the original subject itself, yes, many 'bear with it', many think assisted suicide is unchristian, and I'm neutral on the prospect of whether it's unchristian or not. However the initial question of should it be allowed remains, and I think people should have a right to choose, those who choose to go ahead may be the 'type' (not judging) who fall apart easier and their hearts may turn black and blasphemous while they are still alive. And taking the view that assisted suicide is wrong, maybe getting to heaven without anything is better than falling away in the final days and not getting there at all. Cost vs reward.
 
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Now on the original subject itself, yes, many 'bear with it', many think assisted suicide is unchristian, and I'm neutral on the prospect of whether it's unchristian or not. However the initial question of should it be allowed remains, and I think people should have a right to choose, those who choose to go ahead may be the 'type' (not judging) who fall apart easier and their hearts may turn black and blasphemous while they are still alive. And taking the view that assisted suicide is wrong, maybe getting to heaven without anything is better than falling away in the final days and not getting there at all. Cost vs reward.

I don't believe a saved person can become unsaved but that is an entirely different subject. I'll just say as I don't believe it's a risk so it's not going to stop me from trying to do what is right.

If I understand correctly your idea is you don't want people to reject God so they shouldn't do difficult things but by that logic no Christian should ever do anything they find difficult or painful for fear of rejecting God. There is a saying which says something like "if you let the fear of failure stop you you are already defeated" (Unfortunately I cannot remember it close enough to google. Does anyone remember it better?).
 
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I'm saying 2 things

-Just cos you believe it's wrong doesn't mean you should make it illegal for everyone else
-Don't bite off more than you can chew. If you know you can't, dont. Just some context, maybe I'm a weakling, but can't even stand up for a few minutes when I have a terrible cold, like right now, and can barely forgive the person who gave it to me, 2 weeks before exams and now I'll likely fail. Really can't wait to get cancer. Different from "don't try hard things". At what point does life become meaningless and it's better to go to your heavenly home? Then again this is a very difficult concept for me to grasp since I right now don't believe suicide is an instant trip to hell. If it's just a little annoyance, then consider this analogy.

You're the servant of the king. He asks you to risk your life to defend the city, win a great battle, sure. He asks you to suffer pain of death so his coffee can be hot this morning, no way.
 
I'm running late for an appointment, but I need to add in this quote from one of today's devotionals I use.
"Real life is not a piece of cake. It's actually much more nutritious for building up our soul - but only if we humble ourselves before God and fully trust Him in Christ."
 
Ok this view may not be very biblical but you are putting your religious views above the child's rights.
Rights? Given by men or by God?

Which may make more sense than passing their children through the fire for baal because ours is the 'real' religion, but it's still taking and adversely impacting a life that is not your own.
Sin almost always impacts lives that are not our own. The Bible is chock-full of examples and so is everyday life. Even still, many types of sin are not illegal nor really frowned upon. Yet if doing what is right happens to affect lives that are not our own then it is not okay?

Also note that genesis is from the old testament, not saying it's not valid but a lot of genocide and killing happened there too.
Irrelevant. You will need to come up with a better reason than that for me to ignore the Old Testament.

How would you like it if a new King David rose up and put half the world to the sword? It may have been standard practice then (killing all the fighting men and enslaving the rest) but it's not acceptable practice now. Sacrificing your children to your 'god' (or God in our case) shouldn't be tolerated by modern Christians just like how war crimes should not. Also note that sacrificing of children in the fire was listed as a 'detestable practice' 'which I never requested, nor did it enter my mind' (NIV) if memory serves.
Really? Perhaps that's just because we sanitize it and remove it from public view. Consider abortion. How many children are sacrificed to moloch everyday so their parents won't be inconvenienced with raising them? Makes me sick to my stomach. Yet, if someone does something right and their children suffer or die as a result their rights have been violated?


Now on the original subject itself, yes, many 'bear with it', many think assisted suicide is unchristian, and I'm neutral on the prospect of whether it's unchristian or not. However the initial question of should it be allowed remains, and I think people should have a right to choose, those who choose to go ahead may be the 'type' (not judging) who fall apart easier and their hearts may turn black and blasphemous while they are still alive. And taking the view that assisted suicide is wrong, maybe getting to heaven without anything is better than falling away in the final days and not getting there at all. Cost vs reward.
Who are we, with our limited vision, to determine what would be better in the future? We do not know whether we will be strong in the end even if weak now.

I'm saying 2 things

-Just cos you believe it's wrong doesn't mean you should make it illegal for everyone else
-Don't bite off more than you can chew. If you know you can't, dont. Just some context, maybe I'm a weakling, but can't even stand up for a few minutes when I have a terrible cold, like right now, and can barely forgive the person who gave it to me, 2 weeks before exams and now I'll likely fail. Really can't wait to get cancer. Different from "don't try hard things". At what point does life become meaningless and it's better to go to your heavenly home? Then again this is a very difficult concept for me to grasp since I right now don't believe suicide is an instant trip to hell.
2 Corinthians 12:7b-10
Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

If it's just a little annoyance, then consider this analogy.

You're the servant of the king. He asks you to risk your life to defend the city, win a great battle, sure. He asks you to suffer pain of death so his coffee can be hot this morning, no way.
The King I serve doesn't ask me to defend His city so he can enjoy hot coffee. As a matter of fact, the King I serve loved me so much that he sacrificed His only Son so that I could be ransomed from the enemy. Honestly, I would be honored to defend his city so his coffee would be warm, but the fact of the matter is that I am the one who needs constant defense. My King happens to be the one doing the defense often while I (to my shame) sip hot coffee and relax. . .
 
I'm saying 2 things

-Just cos you believe it's wrong doesn't mean you should make it illegal for everyone else

Uhh actually that's why I vote because I believe things are morally wrong or right and wish to either stop or support them XD . There is such a thing as tolerance, freedom allows some sin by it's nature but when you are talking about creating an industry dedicated to killing people I think one can reasonably say it's gone beyond personal space. Freedom by it's nature also requires law/restrictions of freedoms to exist. I cannot walk down the street nude because everyone on the street would have to see it. If I allow assisted suicide do I have to worry about my manic depressive children seeing the commercials for it (not that I actually have children)? Everything we do effects each other because we live on the same planet to say something effects only you is not true.

-Don't bite off more than you can chew. If you know you can't, dont. Just some context, maybe I'm a weakling, but can't even stand up for a few minutes when I have a terrible cold, like right now, and can barely forgive the person who gave it to me, 2 weeks before exams and now I'll likely fail. Really can't wait to get cancer. Different from "don't try hard things". At what point does life become meaningless and it's better to go to your heavenly home? Then again this is a very difficult concept for me to grasp since I right now don't believe suicide is an instant trip to hell. If it's just a little annoyance, then consider this analogy.

You're the servant of the king. He asks you to risk your life to defend the city, win a great battle, sure. He asks you to suffer pain of death so his coffee can be hot this morning, no way.

You are correct that pointlessly tempting God and yourself is bad but living in spite of pain is not pointless. Life is never meaningless as God has a plan and a purpose for each of us even when we can't see it. Once again one can be a great witness in pain and if you allow assisted suicide for the saved you allow it for the unsaved. Unsaved people who commit suicide risk going to hell. Not because of the act of suicide but because they are dead and have no more chances to find Christ. If, by enduring pain, one can save people from hell or even just give them another chance to be saved from hell it is not a trivial thing. I know you are afraid that you might not be able to endure, as I am too, but I'm not going to give in to the fear of what might be (see 2 Timothy 1:7-8 written by Paul while in prison BTW). Right now I know what is right so even with fearing the future I do it.

Sorry to hear about your cold hope you feel better in time to study :( . Don't give up hope, work hard, you can do all things through Christ. You can do iiiiiiiit! :)

Also stop hanging out with us if you need to rest/study the discussion will be endless. I know we are cool, handsome and intelligent, well I know I am cool, handsome and intelligent (kidding) :p but we will still be here another time. In fact I have to go do things now too so HF and later! :)
 
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Actually, I was kind of referring to fruitless labor. Die to win a war VS die for a cup of water (King David, to his credit refused to drink the water his men risked their lives for on a whim. Does not make him less of a dictator but this is defs righteousness, in those days anyway).

On the original subject, do you feel anything great is achieved by not dying when you're just a burden to everyone?
Take costs into account too. That ICU bed is needed by someone else, and hospices are usually full... not to mention the labor of all the nurses who look after you, could be looking after someone else. Not saying you don't DESERVE the treatment, just saying it may be futile. Both on your part and the people helping.

Also if you make it illegal, what about the christians I linked who believe it's all right and in fact morally right to relieve suffering (or non-Christians)? The decision should be theirs and we shouldn't impose our beliefs on them.

Still it's a rather complex issue and I don't think I know enough about all the factors that come into play to take a stance, but the main point I'm trying to make, without taking sides, is that I would like that choice to be mine, and not made by someone else/the state. My ultimate decision would rest on how severe the suffering is and the prognosis. In spite of terminal illness, I too believe one can lead a fulfilling and meaningful last few years. to To be honest I wouldn't know what I would do unless I'm IN the situation.

#The thread asks for my views, not biblical views (though my views are of course influenced by the Bible cos I'm Christian). I have no idea, and it scares me, why everyone is taking me so seriously rather than all the other posters here. Sorry if anything I said riled you folks up, these are just my opinions and should be taken as that.
 
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Actually, I was kind of referring to fruitless labor. Die to win a war VS die for a cup of water (King David, to his credit refused to drink the water his men risked their lives for on a whim. Does not make him less of a dictator but this is defs righteousness, in those days anyway).
My mistake, I misunderstood you.

On the original subject, do you feel anything great is achieved by not dying when you're just a burden to everyone?
Absolutely. Relationships can still be maintained. A witness can still be given. The gospel can still be shared.

Take costs into account too. That ICU bed is needed by someone else, and hospices are usually full... not to mention the labor of all the nurses who look after you, could be looking after someone else. Not saying you don't DESERVE the treatment, just saying it may be futile. Both on your part and the people helping.
You talk about the rights of children but here you sort of gloss over the rights of the sick and dying. Think supply and demand. If the demand rises high enough supply will eventually catch up. That is one of the wonders of a capitalistic society (assuming government provides just enough balance to keep costs from rising prohibitively without mucking up the waters with their bureaucracy.

Also if you make it illegal, what about the christians I linked who believe it's all right and in fact morally right to relieve suffering (or non-Christians)? The decision should be theirs and we shouldn't impose our beliefs on them.
I disagree. Certain beliefs need to be imposed on other people for the good of all. For instance, I believe murder is wrong. Bill down the street may believe it is okay. However, if Bill runs around murdering people he is a detriment to society (sinfulness aside). We need to impose restrictions on his beliefs to keep society intact.

Still it's a rather complex issue and I don't think I know enough about all the factors that come into play to take a stance, but the main point I'm trying to make, without taking sides, is that I would like that choice to be mine, and not made by someone else/the state. My ultimate decision would rest on how severe the suffering is and the prognosis. In spite of terminal illness, I too believe one can lead a fulfilling and meaningful last few years. to To be honest I wouldn't know what I would do unless I'm IN the situation.
2 Corinthians 12:7b-10
Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

#The thread asks for my views, not biblical views (though my views are of course influenced by the Bible cos I'm Christian). I have no idea, and it scares me, why everyone is taking me so seriously rather than all the other posters here. Sorry if anything I said riled you folks up, these are just my opinions and should be taken as that.
Actually , the reason I started on your posts was because of the comment you made about Christians and their children (with regards to their rights).
 
Sorry to hear you are so sick. Hope you can feel better soon.

The King I serve doesn't ask me to defend His city so he can enjoy hot coffee. As a matter of fact, the King I serve loved me so much that he sacrificed His only Son so that I could be ransomed from the enemy. Honestly, I would be honored to defend his city so his coffee would be warm, but the fact of the matter is that I am the one who needs constant defense. My King happens to be the one doing the defense often while I (to my shame) sip hot coffee and relax. . .

@ Patriot - LOVE this!

First, I'd like to point out Silverleaf that you continually use the Old Testament and only reject it when used by someone else. Read back through your comments and you may be surprised at how much you refer to things in the Old Testament. Either it is usable or not, it can't be both ways.

If we call ourselves a Christian that means we are a follower of Christ. Christ went through everything he did basically because it was God's will. We like to believe he did it because he loved us so much, but truthfully, he did it because he loved God so much. Remember, in the garden he actually asked God not to make him do it. He did it strictly because it was God's will. He SUFFERED tremendously. He had a terminal illness - he KNEW he was going to die. He could have called for an "assisted suicide" or an "assisted rescue" at any time. And he did not, he suffered until he died. Why? To become the ultimate witness. Have you really read the NT? Seriously, there isn't very many people in it that didn't suffer before they died and NONE of them committed suicide. What if Paul and Silas (who also believed they would suffer and die) had just killed themselves in Acts 16:25-33?

If we call ourselves a Christian that means that we are a follower of Christ. Christ trusted God completely, with everything. Either we trust God or we don't. If we choose to take our own life, or the life of someone else because we think this or that, then, we don't trust God. As a mother, I HAVE had times where I have had to let my children do things that quite frankly, was hard for me to watch that didn't have anything to do with my faith and I got through it. I would imagine if it was for my faith, I would have even more strength through the Holy Spirit. Hard, yes, impossible, I don't think so. Think of the number of mother's and father's who watch their children go off to war for a country. RIGHT NOW there are parents kissing the children good bye and they will never see them alive again. THAT IS sacrifice, it's the same thing.

If we call ourselves a Christian, we are saying we belong to the Kingdom of Heaven. Should this be made a law? Don't get me started on this being founded as a Christian nation. Because of that, it was already made a law by God - Thou shalt not kill/murder (oh wait that was OT, how bout Matthew 19:18). It doesn't say, unless it's yourself. I think any law that lines up with God's word, is a good law. And as a Christian, we should not have a problem with any law that lines up with God's law. We aren't talking about a speed limit, a drinking/smoking age, uniforms or not for school - those would all be preference laws. We go by what the KING says, period - he already wrote up the constitution and all his laws in the Bible. If you are a Christian, it's there's already a law against it. IF we don't like the laws in the Bible, then we shouldn't be living in a Christian nation. :)

The thread asks for my views, not biblical views

If we call ourselves a Christian, we have no "my views" there is only "His views" which we find in the Bible. If we can't find it in the Bible, then either it isn't important enough to have a view on, or the Holy Spirit will give us a view - which is still not my view but His view. :D

taking me so seriously rather than all the other posters

I've kind of taken ALL the posters seriously. This is a serious subject - Death - can't get much more serious then that. It may feel that way to you because most everyone else is trying to tell you that assisted suicide and suicide is wrong so it feels like everyone is against you. But really, everyone is just FOR what God says.

Should it be a law, yes because it lines up Biblically. Am I pushing my views and beliefs of other people - well ... No to me pushing my views on anyone since they are Gods views, not mine. My beliefs, well, maybe, but not really since they can still do it. The assistant would have to be wiser in their set up as to not be caught. And the other person, who's going to arrest a dead person? Besides, America WAS established as a Christian nation therefore I have the right to push my beliefs that line up with the Bible on people. Try going to a muslim nation, hindu nation, any other nation founded on a Religious view and try to tell them they can't push their beliefs on someone. It's only that way in America. :confused:

*steps down from her rant*
 
Should it be a law, yes because it lines up Biblically. Am I pushing my views and beliefs of other people - well ... No to me pushing my views on anyone since they are Gods views, not mine. My beliefs, well, maybe, but not really since they can still do it. The assistant would have to be wiser in their set up as to not be caught. And the other person, who's going to arrest a dead person? Besides, America WAS established as a Christian nation therefore I have the right to push my beliefs that line up with the Bible on people. Try going to a muslim nation, hindu nation, any other nation founded on a Religious view and try to tell them they can't push their beliefs on someone. It's only that way in America. :confused:
I disagree with you on this point. First, the statement that America was founded as a Christian nation isn't exactly true. Yes, it was founded by Christians. However, America was and is intended to be neutral towards religion. Look at what the founders had to say about the topic:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion
To say that America is (or was founded as) a Christian nation does not line up with what the founders actually said.

Beyond that, I would ask why you feel the need and the right to push your views on others. If God wanted people to be forced to obey him, he could very easily accomplish that. However, he chooses to give us free will. If God won't force people to obey his commands, what gives me the right to force people to do so? The fact that other religions do so is immaterial -- further, look at the reputation that these religions obtain! The act of pushing your beliefs on someone drives them away; this is the opposite of what we should be doing!

In summary, God doesn't tell us to force our beliefs on others, God doesn't do it himself (in fact, quite the opposite), and doing so can drive others away from Christ. So, why should we do so?

--

Euthanasia
From my perspective, the central religious issue with euthanasia is that euthanasia requires a weakening of the sanctity of life. 1 Corinthians describes our bodies as "temples of God" and "temples of the Holy Spirit". Genesis 9 states "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image." Proverbs 31 says to "Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more." It doesn't say to make them perish or end their anguish.

Further, is it our place to take the life of another, and usurp God's intentions for that person? Maybe God could have used that person's suffering to lead others to Christ. Maybe God would have healed the person miraculously. If we kill the person, we usurp that authority.

I don't buy into the arguments that euthanasia is acceptable because of available ICU beds, etc. (theologically, these arguments rely on the killing being justified by the saving of another person's life). Instead of killing the person, why could we not create more ICU units and train more medical professionals? In this context, the motivation for killing becomes economics -- by killing the person, society does not need to pay the cost of being able to help everyone.

--

Beyond religious reasons, however, there are some more general ethical/practical issues with euthanasia. (Given that the beginning of my post was devoted to mentioning how we shouldn't force our beliefs on others, I feel that it is important to bring these up as well.)

First, you have the fundamental issue of who should be allowed to request euthanasia. Even if we say that only people with incurable and painful conditions can request it now, history has a precendent of small compromises leading to larger ones. If incurable/painful conditions qualify, why not let someone with terminal cancer end their life so as not to be a burden on their family? What happens if families or governments start pressuring people with these conditions to accept euthanasia?

Here is one quote that addresses this issue (given to the Canadian Senate Committee on Assisted Suicide, I don't know exactly who said it):
I have seen . . . AIDS patients who have been totally abandoned by their parents, brothers and sisters and by their lovers.

In a state of total isolation, cut off from every source of life and affection, they would see death as the only liberation open to them.

In those circumstances, subtle pressure could bring people to request immediate, rapid, painless death, when what they want is close and powerful support and love.

Second, what if the diagnosis is wrong, or if another treatment may have been found that could cure the condition or make it non-painful? What if the person doesn't fully understand the condition or what could happen in the future? What if the patient isn't aware of all possible treatments? What if the pain is only temporary, but the person doesn't realize that?

Third, by accepting euthanasia as a "treatment" for incurable diseases, we lessen the urgency of the search for cures for those diseases.

Personally, I don't think that there is any place for euthanasia in society. However, even if I did accept it in the limited circumstance of incurable and painful death, I sincerely doubt that it is possible or practical for us to create a regulatory system that could properly handle "justified" euthanasia that will not be abused or expanded beyond that limit. If we are going to propose a system that involves the taking of life, there is no room for error, and this is where euthanasia fails.
 
Addressed to CC-EDAC's post:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. .... To say that America is (or was founded as) a Christian nation does not line up with what the founders actually said

Since this really should be another thread, I'll try to be brief on this. If you do research you will see that they used the Bible to develop their laws. What this meant was that no one could say that only a certain denomination of religion could be established. Also, I welcome other religions, of any kind, into the country, that is one beauty of the country. However, it doesn't mean that the countries laws and values should change because they are welcome. I would encourage anyone who hasn't done so, to do their own research on what the founder's actually said as opposed to what has been chosen to be taught to us as we grow up. It's the same thing we should do with the Bible. We shouldn't just take someone's word on anything, sometimes there is a lot of value within what is NOT said, as opposed to what HAS BEEN said.

I would ask why you feel the need and the right to push your views on others.

I don't feel that this would necessarily be a "religious" view. I guess to me it is a moral and/or common sense view. To me a religious view would be saying that you could only pray in the Lord Jesus Christ's name, or that you HAD to pray at a certain time facing a certain way, or the only religious book allowed would be the Bible. What I meant was that as Christians, if there is a law that lines up with something the Bible says, we shouldn't have a problem with it.

If God won't force people to obey his commands, what gives me the right to force people to do so?

Does this mean that we shouldn't have any laws? Actually, I think it's dumb that we have to have laws that say it's wrong to kill and steal, it seems like common sense to me. In the area I grew up in, we didn't have to have them, we never locked our house or car doors. There was maybe 1-2 murders in the entire history of the place. But we have to and so did those in Bible times. Why is it ok to allow law makers to enforce THEIR commands on us, but not God's commands?

God doesn't do it himself (in fact, quite the opposite)

Actually he kind of does, it's just that the punishment for NOT following his commands, comes at the end. Yes, I know the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ, but Jesus said IF - He said IF you LOVE me, THEN you will obey my commands. - IF-THEN statements in the Bible are very big words and need to be noticed. Many times we only take the THEN part of the statement and gloss over or forget about the IF statement. This would also be another topic, so I'll just leave it at that for now.

I totally agree with all your GREAT points about euthanasia - Well said!
 
Just to clarify my original point (this will be the last I say on it here, feel free to PM me or start up another topic though):

My general opinion is that laws need to be based on more than the Bible/theology. Laws should be neutral to religion -- for example, if a law was created outlawing the use of God's name in vain, that would be considered a violation of people's rights. Laws exist to maintain order in and to protect society. Laws ought to be based on that principle (for example, murder is outlawed because of the negative impact upon society that it has and because it causes unnecessary harm to another person).

That said, the teachings of the Bible do overlap with laws, primarily because God didn't just give us arbitrary laws to follow -- they are designed to protect/guide. Not all of those laws, however, will be relevant in a society that welcomes multiple religions (for example, the commandment to not have other Gods).

I think that clarifies my point well enough, so I will return this thread to it's regularly scheduled programming. :)
 
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