How do you feel about "physician-assisted suicide"?

Corpfox

Corpfox

Active Member
I watched a film called, How to Die in Oregon.

Its a very interesting film.

And I can understand why the persons did it.

Would "assisted suicide" also be rejected to go to Heaven?

I'm curious on a religious standpoint. But your thoughts, opinions, etc.
 
http://www.christiansforve.org.au/

Statement of Belief

"We are Christians who believe that, as a demonstration of love and compassion, those with a terminal or hopeless illness should have the option of a pain-free, peaceful and dignified death with legal voluntary euthanasia."
Click to expand...

Sums up my views. Keywords TERMINAL ILLNESS, entirely voluntary, no one but the patient should decide.
It's easy to take the moral high ground now and call all people for this murderers. However when it's my time to go (for those that remember, now I'm having second thoughts about cryonics) I want to go peacefully, not after days, weeks or months of intense suffering. I don't really have scripture, ethics or other backing to support my views, it's just MY PERSONAL decision and fear that one day I may want to die and not be able to.

*BIG* debate raging right now, no doubt *the* controversial healthcare topic of the decade.
 
Last edited:
Romans 8:38-39 says that nothing can separate us from God, certainly assisted suicide is included in "nothing".
No child of God is perfect and if in a dark hour of pain and suffering you make a choice to end it, it will have nothing to do with your eternal "location". It may have something to do with the level of rewards you have there, but once you are adopted into the family of God mistakes don't send you out of His presence.
 
Last edited:
This is a scary road. Shouldn't we naturally then euthanize those born with birth defects so they don't have to go through the "pain of life"?

The slope slides big time. The bigger question could be what is God's purpose in causing this pain? Not, "How can we help people escape it?"

Edit: I'm not saying suicide or assisted suicide (or any sin for that matter) is greater than God's grace, but I would question the validity of a faith which would willfully commit sin without a conscious objection.
 
Last edited:
As long as it doesn't lead to the slippery slope of euthanasia or forced killings of any kind and remains a personal choice, I don't see this as an issue.... at least not a Biblical issue.

I'm with ewoks. I don't believe that suicide actually prevents us from being saved. If you had just thought a bad thought (say, an angry thought that Jesus said would have been equivolent to murder in your heart) and you get hit by a bus, are you no longer qualified for salvation? I doubt it.

On the same lines, someone that is a Christian that is dealing with terrible pain and suffering, wracking up huge healthcare costs, and faces dying in a nursing home instead of going peacefully at home surrounded by loving family... I can see the draw.

There is a patient program that allows people to "let themselves go" while receiving huge doses of pain killers... most of them stop taking their maintenance medications and die in significant pain after weeks or months of suffering. What's the difference? The maintenance meds might have kept them alive for another year or two... isn't that still just suicide?

Isn't eating fast food 3 meals a day, smoking 2 packs a day, and drinking a fifth a day for 20 years just a slow suicide?

As long as it's my decision for my death, I don't see an issue. If God doesn't agree, He'll make it not work. I've seen far bigger miracles than surviving lethal doses of medications.
 
I’ve never given this much thought, so I’m going to looked at the Bible and see what I could find. But some initial thoughts that came to me were:

1) Either God is God or He isn’t. We can’t say that He is and then play God ourselves. Although, we probably do this in many other areas of our lives as well.

2) There isn’t anywhere in the Bible that killing someone, unless instructed to by God, has been a good thing. Well, except maybe killing Jesus Christ, but that was the will of God. I think assisted suicide where someone else actually kills someone, is murder, and therefore covered under the commandments. Assisted suicide where someone sets everything up and the person committees suicide on their own is really just suicide.

3) Proverbs 18:9 says, “He who is loose and slack in his work is brother to him who is a destroyer and [a]he who does not use his endeavors to heal himself is brother to him who commits suicide.” (Amplified)

BEFORE YOU SAY THIS DOESN’T SAY THIS, this is the way it reads in The Septuagint (Greek translation of the Old Testament). Do some study on the Septuagint. It would have been published a little over 130 years before Christ walked the earth, so it was here when Christ was here, it is what was quoted in the New Testament.

Let’s look at the people that committed suicide in the Bible:

1) King Saul ( 1 Samuel 31:4). There are two versions of how he died, either he was killed by Amalekite (2 Sam. 1:10) which would have been an enemy killing him. Or he committed suicide. We know that PRIOR TO COMMITTING SUICIDE the spirit of Jehovah left Saul (1 Samuel 16:14). So he was no longer walking with God. Saul's Armbearer (1 Samuel 31:5) also committed suicide but we know very little about him.

2) Ahithophel (2 Samuel 17:23) committed suicide. We know that PRIOR TO COMMITTING SUICIDE he had turned against a man chosen by God. So he was not walking with God.

3) Zimri (1 Kings 16:18) committed suicide. We know why he killed himself which is recorded in v 19, “Because of his sins committed in doing evil in the sight of the Lord, in walking in the way of Jeroboam, and his sin in causing Israel to sin.” So it was because of sin and doing evil. If we read about Jeroboam, we know that neither of them walked with God.

4) Judas (Matthew 27;3-5) committed suicide. We know that PRIOR TO COMMITTING SUICIDE satan entered him (Luke 22:3) so he was no longer walking with God.

5) Samson indirectly committed suicide, we know that PRIOR TO COMMITTING SUICIDE that the Lord had departed from him“ (Judges 16:20) And he got into the predicament because he wasn’t walking with God. He asked God to restore his strength so that he could “at once avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes”

6) Abimelech ( Judges 9:54) asked to be killed and was killed (guess this would be similar to assisted suicide?). We know why he was killed if we read down to v 56, “Thus God repaid the wickedness of Abimelech.” So we know that he was not walking with God.

7) Elijah (1 Kings 19:4) asked to be killed but wasn’t because he asked God to kill him. We know that he WAS walking with God and that God actually sustained his life.

I find it interesting that those who committed suicide were either against God, God left them, or they were possessed by satan. And the only one not granted his request for assisted suicide was Elijah, who was walking with God. Funny that he asked God to do it and God refused.

After reading through what the Bible says, I can tell you that I wouldn't commit suicide.
 
I'm with ewoks. I don't believe that suicide actually prevents us from being saved. If you had just thought a bad thought (say, an angry thought that Jesus said would have been equivolent to murder in your heart) and you get hit by a bus, are you no longer qualified for salvation?
Click to expand...

The only note I would make on this is that God knows our heart. That one thought doesn't determine whether we are saved or not. However, Jesus says if you love Him you will follow his commandments. So if we premeditate a murder, we are not walking in his commandments. Suicide is a premeditated event. There are several minutes between having the thought and performing the action. Plenty of time for repentance. I don't think that compares to the example you gave.

I don't know what happens to someone AFTER their suicidal death, but at some point prior to their death, they have to stop walking with God, at least based on all the suicides in the Bible. Maybe they are still saved, but what exactly is the consequences in Heaven? We can't know this, is it worth bargaining with, do we really know the cost?

None of us is promised a painless death, that is what is so scary about death itself. Looking for loopholes is not a good thing. We might find out too late that the loophole wasn't what we thought it was and then what?

Again, I'm not disagreeing with whether one is saved or not saved and goes to Heaven or not. I don't think this is something that can be determined. However, it seems to me a little like when you buy a lottery ticket, will you win or will no lose? It's a gamble.
 
Bluntly I don't have time to write a lengthy response or read other people's so here is my view quickly...

1. Life is a sacred gift of God and not to be thrown away. If we aren't to murder others I don't see why we should be allowed to murder ourselves. Yes making suicide illegal is rather dumb because you can't exactly catch them if they are successful. You can catch those who assist them though.

2. The greatest witnesses for Christ are those suffering and in pain yet can still show hope in Christ.

3. God has a plan and purpose for each of us. In a suicide done only to ease one's personal suffering I only see one being self centered (note I mean that by definition not in a derogatory sense). The great commission is our job one that we can't do if we've committed suicide.

4. I may fail in everything I do but I'm at least going to try with what I've been given. I do not want to stand before my Father in heaven and say I gave up by committing suicide. Matthew 25:14-30 seems to support this. Even if God gives the most understanding responses to suicide victims I just would not want to let "Dad" down.

5. We don't need people to "sell" the depressed and suffering death. People already sell abortion, yes sell, whether for ideological or monetary reasons they sell it. I've seen the ad with the woman being forced to use a clothes hanger and Planned Parenthood is a billion dollar industry. Many of the arguments for abortion can be used for assisted suicide and it can be marketed the same way. If you make suicide acceptable, easy and painless it is only going to increase the suicide rate not give people the hope (hopefully in Christ) they need. While there are doubtlessly invalids incapable of committing suicide by themselves the vast majority don't need help to be capable of doing it, much less it being made more attractive.

6. Suicide is the last act of the devil. He will wear you down in your life with sin, failures and pain. When he has done all he can to make the world a worse place through you then he takes what is left. He tells you there is no forgiveness for your sins, you've gone to far, only more shame/pain awaits, you are un-loved, a burden to your family, useless. When Satan gets someone to commit suicide he's either stopped a Christian from doing their job or kept a person from possibly finding Christ. Consider would not the people desperately desiring a way out be among the ones most receptive to accepting Christ?

7. Life is full of pain. All Christians have to a cross bear, told to bear ( Luke 9:23 ) , whether physical, mental or spiritual. Why should I expect an easy way out when Christ didn't? I have sympathy for those in pain but I would never tell them to just give up and die. When someone is in pain that is the time to show them they are precious and loved by God.

8. Just a note but suicide and being forced to take extreme measures to live are two different things. One is subtractive the other is additive. One is taking away what God has given you while the other is leaving your life in God's hands. Being forced to stay alive as a brain in a jar is NOT required, etc.

9. To answer Corp's original question in the Catholic church suicide was called an "unpardonable sin" (just saying it if he didn't know though he probably did). Google is your friend If you want to know more about their past views (cause I don't XD ). I do know that all sin is equal in Gods eyes and suicide is not unforgivable. The Bible specifically tells us the only unpardonable sin ( Matthew 12:31-32 ) that of the rejection of the Holy Spirit = Christ = Forgiveness . Rejecting forgiveness can't be forgiven duh.

I'm a pessimistic, depressed sort. I'm not suicidal, nor have I ever been, but I've thought about it enough in the past to say people don't need encouragement >.< .

I must... not look at this thread again... takes to long... busy, busy Gerbil XD .
 
Last edited:
Well it may not be the right thing to do, but sometimes the price is just too high. If it's to commit one last sin (assuming that it is) or suffer for months, one must be suffering for months to make that decision.
 
Everything is in our lives because God wants it there.

It may be a reward for something we've done, it may be a punishment for sin in our lives, it may be something we need to grow us or it may be something to grow someone else. We don't know but God does. And He put it there for His reason.

No matter how bad things may get it may be what someone else needs to come to a knowledge of Christ and get saved. If we can't trust God enough to get us thru even the toughest of times why should someone else trust Him with their soul. And if we quit, we rob Him of the chance to do a miracle. Unless we don't believe in miracles (and if we don't then why should those who have yet to trust Him).


Everything in our lives should be about showing others Him, His love and His gift.
 
If everything has its place in our lives because God put it there, then doesn't assisted suicide have a place too?

I feel that if the pain of a terminal illness is enough and when there are no alternative ways of mediating such pain, then assisted suicide should be an option.
 
If everything has its place in our lives because God put it there, then doesn't assisted suicide have a place too?
Click to expand...

"If homosexuality exists doesn't it have it's place in our lives? If abortion exists doesn't it have a place in killing our babies? Isn't that what God wants?"

Doesn't that sound crazy?

"Hey man, if life is too tough, don't worry! God wants you to kill yourself. He made it there for you. It's ALL natural."

I'll get off my snarky soapbox. This topic truly hits home for me. My mother in law is 57. She has been in nursing home for the 10 years due to nerve and brain damage caused by the side affects of drugs taken for other complications. 50 yr old people "shouldn't" be in nursing homes. It's not normal. Everyday she has excruciating pain that doctors all over the world have yet to figure out how to fix it. Somedays, yes, she doesn't want to be alive, but.... somedays..... somedays.... she shares the gospel with folks that are dying in the nursing home. She goes and creates relationships with people who the world wants to forget and shove off. It's painful, but she knows her purpose. To continue to glorify her Daddy in heaven until He takes her home.



It used to be that a doctor's code of ethics required him to preserve life from "conception to death". Now we see these things slipping away and getting changed to things like "A physician must always bear in mind the obligation of preserving human life". Not taking into account when in the timeline LIFE is defined. We are not surprised by this moral decline, we are not shocked. When life is no longer precious on both end of the spectrum then we look at everything as a moral and ethical conveniencce rather than life ... a gift... from God.
 
I think preserving human dignity and alleviating suffering is more important than preserving a life the patient does not want. I want to be able to make that decision for myself. No one except me, suffering on my deathbed with no hope of recovery, has a right to decide.
 
Think about how you sound silverleaf. I, I , me, me I.. you totally pushed God- all 3 Persons of the Trinity- out. We DO have a hope even on our deathbed!

Think about all the treasure stored in Heaven for you.. you take yourself out contrary to God's Word and you have lost so much more than just your life. The Bible says the faithful over little will be faithful over much. We will rule over cities in the New World IF we faint not.

You take yourself out prematurely, your gonna be ruled OVER, still a child of God, but with less rewards and standing before Jesus, He says, "My son, if you only held on another hr, you would have been delivered." and Jesus will def not say "Well done good and faithful servant!"

Satan is the thief, killer and destroyer, the enemy who fights us in the battlefield of the mind. Who makes evil look good but isn't.

God would never ever tell you to kill yourself EVER. Even in suffering! He is our strength, our strong tower, our deliverer!!

If you build your house on sand, it falls. Build your house on the Rock where it will never topple!

To look for an easy way out is the way the devil gets in and deludes you, makes you blind to God's ways IF you let him. Once your eyes are off Jesus and on your problems (wind, waves) your gonna sink.

God wants you to trust Him to bring you through anything and everything life brings. To do otherwise is telling our AWESOME and FAITHFUL God get lost I don't need You.

Do it enough times, and He will let you have what you desire and all the heaps of coal on your head to boot, while His heart breaks to see you in such a pigsty. And, guess what? As soon as you repent and get your eyes and heart back on Jesus, He forgives you! Don't you see how Jesus is our High Priest? He stands before the Father with His Blood saying forgive him, forgive him as soon as YOU repent, otherwise Jesus's blood isn't used because your running away from God.

Even David said, "Where can I go where You aren't? Nowhere for You are in the deepest Sheol, and the highest heaven." Guess what? He is there before you were born and there after you die, you will never, never, never be anywhere and not have Him there.

He cares for the big things and little things of your life, and if you reject Him and tell the Holy Spirit to leave you alone, your inviting the devil to come and reside with you instead.

Life in God, or death in satan is only 2 choices you have. Choose LIFE.
.
 
An alternative is to get me hooked up on morphene and other pain relief meds, anesthesia to put me to sleep, and then withdraw treatment and wait to die. However we don't know if people in that state actually suffer. In fact a few of them reported that 'it didn't work and I could still feel my surgery'. It is risky, but does bypass the whole euthanasia debate. Of course if I decide to go ahead with the brain freezing thing then heart-stopping poison is the only way but as it stands I don't have the nerve to wake up 2000 years from now and start school all over. Maybe in some communist regime (more on that later). Also because it's just suspended animation, not death, because obviously people who do that want to wake up again, it ain't suicide, quite the opposite actually. Anyway since I'm not gona do it, moving on.

You take yourself out prematurely, your gonna be ruled OVER, still a child of God, but with less rewards and standing before Jesus, He says, "My son, if you only held on another hr, you would have been delivered." and Jesus will def not say "Well done good and faithful servant!"
Click to expand...
Well I certainly don't want that to happen, but it might not be another hour, it might be 10 years. My decision would depend a lot on the prognosis. Also if I had led a righteous life and been active in the Church up till my illness, what makes you think this one sin will do more damage than the other many sins we commit every day?

Think about how you sound silverleaf. I, I , me, me I.. you totally pushed God- all 3 Persons of the Trinity- out. We DO have a hope even on our deathbed!
Click to expand...
Yeah, very risky turf agreed. However I'm not 'ending it all', I'm taking the express train to my Father in Heaven! If there was no one up there waiting for me, I wouldn't dare do this. Also, the issue of 'is suicide a condemnable sin or a sin at all' is still debated and I'm open to both sides of the debate. Come to think of it besides being a Christian and politically anti-oppression (no commies) I don't have any strong views on things. Guess it's good to be open minded when you're young huh? Downside, I can't decide who is right and wrong. You make this statement assuming suicide is a sin, and you of course have biblical basis for that. The

And then there's the thought of 'is the sin worth it' in the sense that we do so many worse things every day. How 'sinful' is it on a scale of telling a white lie to murder, again there are people who say all sins are equal but I think sin on a genocide scale is worse than killing a single man for instance. So it's not going to erase ALL or most of my treasure and status in heaven (if I have any at all) just because of this isolated incident.
As for treasures in heaven, I'd be happy to get there. One disturbing thing is that heaven is not a democracy (duh) but God never spoke out against mass genocide and the many humanitarian disasters mentioned in the Bible. In fact, the 'end times' sounds like some communist regime, and yet He lets Christians get persecuted by the regime and nothing is being done, no encouraging sign, nothing.

And one last thing, very important.
your gonna be ruled OVER
Click to expand...
Bible says everyone's gona be ruled over by God. So a MAN is gona rule over me? Will he be my Member of Parliment type rule, or slave-master type? Because if there's slavery in Heaven, it isn't really paradise is it? I'd like some clarification, is heaven a paradise at all? It is told in many hymns 'not a bitter tear, no more pain, no more sorrow'. However I'm hard pressed to find any BIBLICAL reference.
 
Last edited:
Just a note, from your friendly neighborhood Mod. Don't let this conversation get out of hand, and keep tempers and emotions in check please. I'd hate to have to close the thread down, and hand out infraction points.
 
Two issues here.

The first is a personal issue involving faith. If we take our own life or the life of someone else to end their suffering we deny God the chance to finish what ever he has started. We rob Him a chance to work a miracle if He so chooses. He has placed this in our life for His reason. It's up to Him to finish it to His will and understanding. If we take matters into our own hands we demonstrate our lack of faith in Him and His ways.

But faith is very personal thing. Early Christians had enough faith to burn at the stake, be fed to lions or watch their children drown instead of renouncing their beliefs. Today most of us don't have enough faith to tithe or attend church if the weather is bad. It's very hard to trust Him with intense pain and suffering of our loves ones if we don't trust Him with other things.

I know what is right but if I had to choose between watching my daughter be tortured in front of me or renounce my Lord... it's very hard to say what my faith would carry me thru.

The second part is a doctrine issue. Catholics and most of the world and non practicing Christians seem to believe a place in Heaven is based upon the amount of good outweighing the amount of bad you've done in your life. This leads to a belief in big and little sins as well as unpardonable sins (suicide). This is also carried over in a belief that you can lose your salvation.
The Bible teaches salvation is by grace and not works (Eph 2:8-9). Because there is nothing we can do to earn it, there is nothing we can do to lose it. It is kept by the Father (I Pet 1:5). A google search for Eternal security is a good place to start if you're having issues with this. Just remember to notice what group is writing the information you're reading.
 
Wolfeman said:
The first is a personal issue involving faith. If we take our own life or the life of someone else to end their suffering we deny God the chance to finish what ever he has started. We rob Him a chance to work a miracle if He so chooses. He has placed this in our life for His reason. It's up to Him to finish it to His will and understanding. If we take matters into our own hands we demonstrate our lack of faith in Him and His ways.
Click to expand...

It's my interpretation of the scriptures that one of the primary things that God wants us to do is to trust him. In everything. I'd say that suicide (assisted or otherwise) demonstrates a lack of trust in God for the future.

That being said "not trusting God" is a default position for pretty much every person in pretty much every area of our lives.

And I trust that God knows the heart of every person, and he knows why they decide to pull the plug if they do. He also knows if their decision was altered by, say, meds or social pressures.

God is good. He will judge rightly.
 
The only sin people go to hell for is rejecting the work of Christ. Without Christ's blood covering their sin they bear God's wrath. Suicide is not an express ticket to hell (unless that person had rejected Christ's work on the cross).

Job 2:9-10
His wife said to him, “Are you still maintaining your integrity? Curse God and die!” He replied, “You are talking like a foolish woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?” In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.

We should not act like those who have no hope. We do not know whether God will heal us or allow us to suffer before dying. We do not know the lives that are being touched through our suffering. We do not have God's perspective. As Neirai pointed out, we are called to trust Him, and committing suicide or helping others to commit suicide is not putting our trust in God.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top