Hating America

[Guest]

I'm not sure I haven't bought a wife yet, do u know how much they cost.
Women are the property of men right. I think there is a difference, but thats just me.

Since I think I'm right, I could probobly turn that quote on to u.
But I'm Lost in Translation. I have no idea what that means.
But u precieve the bible, differently than me. So I could say the same that u're twisting the words, but who knows.
Of cource u probobly know the bible better than I do, but I think I'm right on this specific subject.
But if I'm wrong I guess I'm going to hell. I hop its like Bill and Ted, I'm real good at Battleship.

 

[Avesther]

Do you mean that your interpretations should be preferred over somebody who knows the bible better then you (by your own admission)? If so, I'd like to know why you have chosen your interpretation over others. You must have a good reason.

 

[Guest]

well I read about it and I don't think being gay is wrong. I think there are so many different translations of the bible its hard to know who's right or if any of them are right.
I admit I don't know the bible as well as some of u guys, I read the postions of the bible that supposedly talk about homosexuality a few times, and I've read about both sides arguments, people who think its a sin and people who don't and I agree with the people who don't.

I might be totally wrong, but its what I precieve to be right.

hey peon u still have to send me your recipe for beef jerky.

 

[Avesther]

Basing your arguement on "so many translations of the bible" is interesting.  Have you read all of them to make such a bold statement?  The all use different words, but, they all say the same thing that homosexuality is detestable in Gods eyes.

Makes me wonder, what "relative" translation people who say it isn't a sin use to come up with their beliefs?  Can you provide me with some references as to which prominant Christians say it isn't a sin and what arguements they use?


---

On a side note, in regards to your comment on what you percieve to be right, do you believe in relativism as well?

 

[Guest]

well the leviticus one in my post on page 2.

1
2

I think I do, I'm not completly sure. We eat beef, but to a hindu that would be a sin. So i guess it would be relative to the person and their beliefs. Would that be considered relativism or am I completly lost.

 

[Guest]

Yes I got the question on Jepordy wrong, about he strives with god. It was israel.
Yeah thats not the full question but I turned to it right at the end.
How well do I know the Bible

 

[EspressoMachine]

Quote[/b] (JoBlow @ July 12 2004,3:37)]I'm not sure I haven't bought a wife yet, do u know how much they cost.

Maybe you can find it here ?

Quote[/b] ]
But u precieve the bible, differently than me. So I could say the same that u're twisting the words, but who knows.

You could, but I'm taking them at face value, in the context of the surrounding text, so you would be wrong to say such a thing.

Quote[/b] ]
Of cource u probobly know the bible better than I do, but I think I'm right on this specific subject.
But if I'm wrong I guess I'm going to hell. I hop its like Bill and Ted, I'm real good at Battleship.

I don't know how well you know it, but I make it a point to study it and study it well. It's one of my passions. I also do my best to study the Bible concerning tough issues BEFORE I form an opinion. I do not, however, think this is your approach. That's the fundamental difference though, between those who believe the Bible and those who don't (and those who think for themselves and those who don't within the church).

I don't go to the Bible to confirm what I think is right, I go to the Bible to determine what I should think is right. Like the Bereans, I don't take somebody's word for it, no matter how "learned" they are, or how well they seem to know the Bible. When someone tells me something, I look it up. In holding it up to the light, I gain a better understanding, an ability to discern wheat from chaff. There are those (Christians) who are content to take others' words on biblical matters. These people are lazy. If anyone is offended by that, it's because you are a lazy Christian, so I make no apologies and exhort you to take your study of the Word and your faith more seriously.

I used to think that homosexuality wasn't a sin. But then I studied the Bible concerning it, and came away convinced I had been wrong. I had several friends who were gay, and I believe I just wanted it to be okay so that I could think that they were okay (spiritually, that is). It's just not so. Granted, if you do not believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God, you can write that off. But then you could also write off all the parts that say love your neighbor, which unbelievers love to point out, conveniently.

My point is this: If you don't believe the Bible is THE WORD OF GOD, you have absolutely no basis to use it in argument. I don't use the Q'uran or the I Ching for that same reason - I don't believe they are God's Word, so they are not relevant in determining my world view. Likewise, to use the Bible to support your view seems contrarian to me. Not to mention completely illogical.

Aaaaand: Whether or not you are wrong or right about homosexuality has no bearing on where you spend eternity. That has only to do with whether you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. And I'm thinking your battleship skills aren't gonna do you any good if you haven't.

 

[Guest]

Well that bidal site was ok but u should try yahoo india matramonials. There are a few cute girls on there, and its free.

I don't take read one persons opinion on a subject and take it as the truth. Actually everytime someone posts a quote from the bible, I go to the bible and read it and everything around it, then I come up with my own opinion on the subject.

I'm not sure if I believe Jesus is our savior, but I do like his teachings. They are similar to the dali lama.

Well I guess your not a Bill and Ted fan, but u got to admit the went on an excelent adventure.

If u have friends that are gay, do u tell them that u don't agree with their choice in lifestyle. Because I'm not sure even if I thought it was a sin if I would do that.
I have friends that are hindu and don't eat beef, and friends that are sikh and don't eat meat. And they've never told me that me eating beef or meat is wrong.

Well if u use the bible to prove a point, y can't I use the same book to disprove it. I don't have to believe its the word of god to use it. If u were using Harry potter to prove a point, would it be fine for me to use the same book in my argument. It doesn't matter if I believe it to be true, its wether u believe it to be true.

Y don't u believe the qur'an isn't the word of god. Its like the bible a pretty cool book.

Its funny how this thread started out about hating americans. I got to stop going off topic.

 

[Thaddius]

Quote[/b] ] don't u believe the qur'an isn't the word of god. Its like the bible a pretty cool book.

The bible was written by 40 authorts over 1600 years... The Qu'ran on the other hand was written by 1 mans interpretation of Godly visions whom he told people who wrote it for him over a period of about 20 years.

Cory

 

[Kidan]

actually Thad, that's not quite right. the Qu'ran was written after Muhamad's death by his clerics a number of years after his death in a round-robin situation (basically what they could remember of his teachings)


from carm.org

Quote[/b] ] Apparently, there was no attempt made to collect all of the sayings given by Muhammad during his lifetime. After all, Mohammad was continuing to give ' recitations' on a somewhat regular basis. But, after he died in 632, Abu-Bakr, Muhammad's father in law, became the caliph (religious leader of the Muslims) and there was a small effort to collect the fragments of Qur'anic sayings into a common place. But, it wasn't until the fourth leader of Islam, Caliph Uthman, that the whole Qur'an was finally assembled, approved, and disseminated throughout the Muslim world.

 

[Avesther]

Quote[/b] ]If u have friends that are gay, do u tell them that u don't agree with their choice in lifestyle.

Yep.

Quote[/b] ]And they've never told me that me eating beef or meat is wrong.

If they honestly believed the cow was sacred, they would bring it up.  You eating beef, especially in their presence would be like a slap to their face.  Either they aren't totally accepting of the sacred cow ideology or they enjoy you slappin them in the face.

Quote[/b] ]Well if u use the bible to prove a point, y can't I use the same book to disprove it.

Well, as Espresso mentioned, you don't really study it do you?

An example of how to study was addressed in a New York Times advertisement of Mortimer Adler's How to Read a Book which had a picture of a puzzled adolescent reading a letter.  The ad copy read as follows:

Quote[/b] ]This young man has just received his first love letter.  He may have read it three or four times, but he is just beginning.  To read it a s accurately as he would like would require serveral deictionaries and a good deal of close work with a few experts of etymology and philology.  However, he will do all right without them.

He will ponder over the exact shade of meaning of every word, every comma.  She has headed the letter, "Dear John."  What, he asks himself, is the exact significance of those words?  Did she refrain from sayaing "Dearest" because she was bashful?  Would "My Dear" have sounded too formal?

Jeepers, maybe she would have said "Dear So-and-So" to anybody!  A worried frown will now appear on his face.  But it disappears as soon as he really gets to thinking about the first sentance.  She certainly wouldn't have written that to anybody!

And so he works his way through the letter, one moment perched blissfully on a cloud, the next moment huddled miserably behind an eight ball.  It has started a hundred questions in his mind.  He could quote it by heart.  In fact, he will - to himself - for weeks to come.

That is a lot different then finding some off the wall discussion that twist words, not just english words but, the orginial Hebrew words to make scripture fit what you think is relatively correct.

So, as for as you believing in relativism, are you absolutely unsure on that?

 

[Kidan]

as for relative truths, tell me jospeh, are all truths relative?

 

[Guest]

If u told them that u don't believe in their lifestyle, would they still be friends with u.
Well y would they tell me, they would have respect that I had different beliefs as them. I was at a BBQ on sunday, with people that were hindu, they ate chicken burgers, I ate beef.
I've gone out eating with people of many different beliefs. People eat what they like, wether its tofu, chicken or beef. I repect that he doesn't eat meat, and when I'm at his house I don't eat meat. Have u tried tofu fries. Their real good, u deep fry them.

Off the wall discussion, they could be saying u do the same.

and where's that beef jerky recipe.

 

[Avesther]

Quote[/b] ]If u told them that u don't believe in their lifestyle, would they still be friends with u.

She still is.


5 Lbs. Minimum (One piece preferred) Fresh Brisket (Lean) - Any brand
*You may substitute the beef brisket with your choice of meat*
15 - 20 oz. Soy Sauce
15 oz. Worcestershire Sauce - Lea & Perrins - Preferred
15 - 20 oz. Teriyaki sauce
2 - 4 tablespoons Dark Brown Sugar
2 - 4 tablespoons Garlic Powder
2 - 4 tablespoons Onion Powder
2 - 4 teaspoons Cayenne Pepper
2 - 4 teaspoons Crushed Chile Peppers
5 oz. bottled Liquid Smoke

 

[Guest]

cool, but I've never heard of liquid smoke.
Thanks peon your the man. The Jerky man.

 

[Thaddius]

Quote[/b] (Kidan @ July 13 2004,9:18)]actually Thad, that's not quite right. the Qu'ran was written after Muhamad's death by his clerics a number of years after his death in a round-robin situation (basically what they could remember of his teachings)


from carm.org

Quote[/b] ] Apparently, there was no attempt made to collect all of the sayings given by Muhammad during his lifetime. After all, Mohammad was continuing to give ' recitations' on a somewhat regular basis. But, after he died in 632, Abu-Bakr, Muhammad's father in law, became the caliph (religious leader of the Muslims) and there was a small effort to collect the fragments of Qur'anic sayings into a common place. But, it wasn't until the fourth leader of Islam, Caliph Uthman, that the whole Qur'an was finally assembled, approved, and disseminated throughout the Muslim world.

Thanks for clearing that up. I had read that he told it to wife and followers and they wrote it down as he got his revelations.

Cory

 

[EspressoMachine]

Quote[/b] (JoBlow @ July 13 2004,4:06)]I don't take read one persons opinion on a subject and take it as the truth. Actually everytime someone posts a quote from the bible, I go to the bible and read it and everything around it, then I come up with my own opinion on the subject.

Well if u use the bible to prove a point, y can't I use the same book to disprove it. I don't have to believe its the word of god to use it.

I wasn't saying you necessarily, just giving an example . But, since you bring it up, if you are not born again in the spirit, it doesn't matter how much of the Bible you read, the cross will still be foolishness, and you will not be able to really understand the Bible.

Now, I realize that sounds kind of Gnostic, but I assure you, there is no "secret" knowledge, and no levels to attain in regards to what you can know. It's simply that things that are of the Spirit are understood in the Spirit, and without the Spirit, are quite indecipherable. Sure, one may be able to pull away some nice quotes about living, or whatever, but one will not absorb it the same.

1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Being as the Bible is God's Word, recorded by man, inspired by the Spirit, an unbeliever simply cannot discern it. This, I believe, is why there is such disunity in the church. The Church is riddled with unbelievers, who, unable to discern real Truth, make their own, twisting the Bible to fit it. They go to church because their parents took them, and they feel they should keep going, for their family or whatever reasons, but they do not actually have any kind of relationship with God.

Unfortunately, some of them are in positions of great responsibility (e.g. a pastor), and train people in their lies. Some genuine believers are taken in, because they are lazy. They do not hear the Spirit because they spend no time with Him, so they do not know His voice when they hear it. These folks are not necessarily unbelievers, just lame in the faith, the type that will enter Heaven "as one who passes through the flames." The real bad news is for teachers who teach false doctrine and holding people in bondage to sin - the Word says they will be judged harshly, and that it would better for them were someone to tie a millstone to their neck and toss them in the ocean.

Quote[/b] ]If u have friends that are gay, do u tell them that u don't agree with their choice in lifestyle. Because I'm not sure even if I thought it was a sin if I would do that.

It depends. If they call themselves Christians, most certainly. If they do not, then yes, but only when it comes up in conversation. Not because it isn't wrong for them also, but because they are not held to the same standard. This, I believe, is also one of the problems plaguing those in the Church. Those who are still dead in transgression cannot be expected to act as though they are not. God does not require us to get "cleaned up" before he'll have us, but we often convey that very message.

If someone who calls themselves a brother is living willfully in sin, and not struggling, but "accepting" that it's who they are, we are instructed to confront them. If they still continue, they are to be confronted with a witness to the sin. Eventually, if they insist on living in sin (sexual sin, or thievery, or whatever), we are not even to eat with them. This has cost me some relationships, yes.

On the flip side, we are not to disassociate ourselves from those who live in sin and are not believers, for we would have to leave the planet in that case. I still have friendships with several people who are in different types of sinful lifestyles and are unbelievers. I pray for them and try to be a light. They know that I believe their lifestyles are wrong, but I know that that is one of the reasons they hang around me. It sounds weird, but some people - particularly those who are being called by the Spirit - are longing for something else, something more meaningful than the emptiness they feel when they consider their life.

Quote[/b] ]Well I guess your not a Bill and Ted fan, but u got to admit the went on an excelent adventure.

They did indeed! But they also went on a Bogus Journey, which was how they met death .

 

[Avesther]

I think the bogus journey movie was aptly named. All puns intended.

 

[EspressoMachine]

Quote[/b] (Gods_Peon @ July 13 2004,2:40)]I think the bogus journey movie was aptly named.  All puns intended.

*seconds GP*

I'll always have a place in my heart for the first one, though. Beeth-oven!?! DUDE! EXCELLENT!

 

[Guest]

cool it was a bogus journey, but the prinesses were cute.

I get what u're saying and it makes sense I'm not born again, but when I was younger I did do the whole bible study thing. I don't remember most of it though.

I think there are alot of people that call them christian but arn't really. They don't go to church because they want to, they do it because they've been told to.
U don't know how many lectures I get from my family for not going to church. But I don't want to go just because someone tells me I have to, if I go I want to go because I want to.

Oh and Muhamad was illiterate too. Couldn't read or write.