no one is beating around the bush, peon nailed it \/[b said:
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for what its worth, I don't think your some deluded person. I don't take what you say very seriously because I think you rely to heavily on speculation. Thats all[b said:
Well actually I only mentioned the Nazis becuase Peon did...I wasn't quite sure to be honest, so I'm sorry, I should have checked on it. But you're not quite getting me...sigh, no one is. But for you..we should talk about something else methinks. Um, muslims on the whole are not extremists. Many of them are angry at america becuase we keep butting into their business, just as we would in their situation, and so that's why you always hear them say that they support the extremists. But it's generally on their cause, not their means. Granted, there are more extremists in the muslim faith than in the christian faith, but why do you think that is? Because the muslim faith is inherently violent? Pardon me, but that is a very shallow look on things. You have to take everything into consideration, else you're just not being fair, much less accurate. For one thing, muslim countries are generally very poor, and have very large low classes. It may be hard for you or I to understand since we live in such a powerful country, but when you live in that sort of environment, not much positive energy comes out of it. Also keep in mind their history..what we, the west, did to them, took from them. They don't have much reason to like us based on that, and it's hard to overlook it even in light of the many good things the west has done. Also keep in mind that the media does not tell us everything.. The muslim world has a very different 'side of the story'. I know it's easy to dislike groups of people...it's very easy, that's why discrimination and racism is so common. You have to recognize this, and re-think accordingly. Muslims are not inherently evil..[b said:
Master Plan, pardon me but, if I am relying on speculation, then so are you. Belief, if you prefer. I also like using logic...which is universally appreciated.. And believe it or not, I do take what you say seriously. See..by beliefs are very..unique. I'd rather not talk about it though. Anyways..I would like it if you'd do the same for me. Ok, so the Christian belief that everyone who does not believe in Jesus will go to hell has benefited the world because it allows for people to get into heaven. But see, I'm not talking about the heaven bit. I'm talking about the hell. You believe that I am going to go to hell, for instance. Does that change how you approach me and my beliefs?[b said:
Peon said:
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JoBlow is right though. Were there no religions, there would be less wars--less conflict in general. Actually kindof what I'm talking about actually.. Religions do a whole lot of good for the world, but certain aspects of them generate strife and animosity among groups of people, even if only subconcious.[b said:
Don't get me wrong, I love logic. I think there is a line that divides belief and speculation. I figure you don't because you don't believe in a universal truth, so I"ll bear with you. I don't blow off everything you say either. I'll read what you post multiple times because I see the thought you put into a lot of your posts. Statements about what the world would be like with a different variable seems moot to me. I would call it speculation because its anyones guess as to what the world would be like if "this" were to happen. Its anyone's guess[b said:
alrite, fair enough. Just be careful of when you speculate, theres not a lot to be said after we both give opinions. I love logical discussions though. I am very interested in you beliefs too. If you would rather not talk about it, thats cool, but I"m interested.[b said:
If you had a cure for cancer, wouldn't you try to give to as many people as possible?[b said:
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My beliefs are not based on facts, and neither are yours. By definition beliefs are things that we 'believe' are true, not necessarily know are true. I believe quite a bit of things that I have personally found to be true, that make sense in my mind, but I know that I could be completely wrong so I am always open to other ideas. Hence the relative truth thing.[b said:
oh is that a fact?[b said:
good call, I know there is a God. Just because you don't think its probable for a God to exist, don't make assumptions about the credibility. My conviction is supported by facts.[b said:
So, you do accept there could be a universal truth because your belief could be wrong?[b said:
I personally don't spread God's love. He already loves everyone. I try to tell people about it, because they might not know... The crusades are not a direct result of spreading the love of Christ. The crusades are a direct result of people not reading the Bible. Rebels without a cause, who call themselves Christians. The more people who know what the Bible says, and live by it, the less trageties(like the crusades) that will happen. So I believe it would help to try harder.[b said:
Er..there is a very slight difference that you're not quite getting. You're conviction is supported by facts..but that does not translate to your belief being a fact. But whatever..it doesn't really matter to me. I just feel that 'knowing' that there is a God and all that goes along with him is true defeats the entire purpose of having faith. But it's up to you. And yes, I do accept that there could be a universal truth becuase I could be completely wrong..I don't think I am, but I accept the possibility. I think that's a healthy way to about things..because otherwise it's possible for one to make some big mistakes that would be otherwise avoidable. See...there are still things that I just cannot explain. Like, for instance, my mother was drowning in a river..she saw a light and the whole bit (which actually has something to do with what happens to your eyes as you die..I forget what, must look it up again)..and then was suddenly thrown out of the water against the current onto a rock. How did this happen? A freak occurence of physics..or a miracle? I do not know. And because I don't know, I cannot rule out the possibility that I am wrong. But aaaanyways.. Yes, you're right that the people in the crusades pretty much never read the bible..and the wars were fought primarily for economic and political reasons..and I guess they're a bad example, but there was certainly a part of their motivation that was based upon the fact that they were merely killing people who were going to go to hell. Absolute worst case senario, so don't read too far into it. The point is, you say that the more people live by the Bible, as opposed to, say, the Quran or the Torah, there would be less conflict and animosity? I do not think so...both of those texts, as well as pretty much every other major religion's respective teachings, are peaceful, and focus on bringing the best out of humanity. Everyone thinks they are right, and it is from this that conflicts arise. Ironic, isn't it? You are right though. If we were all one religion, there would not be as much fighting..but that will never happen..and there's nothing we can do about that. And yet, you try, and in trying it often only makes things worse. And that, after a very long seqway, is what I'm talking about. Oh dear, I've rambled for too long..I hope that makes sense. One more thing tho..I remember you said that you said that you have yet to see a belief that as gone through as much scrutiny as Christianity and still 'holds true'..not sure what you meant by that bit, but what about Judaism?[b said:
Yeah..I agree. I think that people should be left to decide for themselves what they believe. God will come to them if they choose to accept them...missionaries just butt into things. It's kindof insulting actually. For instance..after my Grandmother died..she was a Presbyterian I think..a Babtist missionary came to my Grandfather's door and said "Your wife may have gone to hell because she wasn't a Babtist, but there is still hope for you."[b said:Quote[/b] (JoBlow @ July 11 2004,12:09)]NO offence but I don't like missionairies. Alot of them go around poor crappy countries and offer gifts if the people come pray with them, which I don't think its right. Plus I think u should let them be. Y can't they believe in what ever they believe, just because u disagree doesn't mean u should go in there and try to change them into your beliefs (maybe even your image. Sounds very biblical). But I think of them Jeuvas Whitness, giong door to door trying to sell your religion (everytime they come to my house my dad invites them in to do the rosary, then the go away real fast. My friend just unties his dog, not a good thing to do but funny).
Again I'm not trying to insult u just don't like what they do, your parents might be different.