Genesis 36:24

I was trying to figure out what you were asking until I noticed the KJV.

יֵּמִם֙
Here's how the word is translated
Translated
hot springs ESV, NASB95
mules KJV 1900, AV 1873
springs NIV, NRSV
water NKJV
Ιαμιν Logos LXX
(These are the versions Logos pulled automatically, many are missing)

Hot springs: the meaning of the Hebrew word is uncertain, as it occurs only here in the Old Testament. Translations very greatly in the way they render this word. Most, however, refer to “water,” “spring,” or “hot springs.” NEB, which has “mules,” has been revised by REB to “hot springs,” and both of these versions admit in their footnotes that the Hebrew is uncertain. If hot springs are unknown, translators may follow the ancient Syriac, as do FRCL, Speiser, TOB, and NAB, to say “water.”
A Handbook on Genesis, UBS Handbook Series
 
Last edited:
I am King James only preaching to a King James only crowd. I'm pretty well versed on the background of the verse. What I'm looking for is how many people see hot springs and how many see mules. With the huge number of versions available currently, I'm interested in what more people see.
 
I am King James only preaching to a King James only crowd. I'm pretty well versed on the background of the verse. What I'm looking for is how many people see hot springs and how many see mules. With the huge number of versions available currently, I'm interested in what more people see.
In other words, who's using KJV and who's not.
 
I looked in the 23 versions I have on my computer - 22 said water or hot springs - one (KJV) said mules - one (Young's Literal) just transliterated the word Imim.

It is a hapax legomenon - occurring only once in the text - so I think most of the version committees simply used context and the root meaning (hot) to come up with hot springs.

KJV seems to stand alone on its translation as "mules."
 
In other words, who's using KJV and who's not.

I looked in the 23 versions I have on my computer - 22 said water or hot springs - one (KJV) said mules - one (Young's Literal) just transliterated the word Imim.

It is a hapax legomenon - occurring only once in the text - so I think most of the version committees simply used context and the root meaning (hot) to come up with hot springs.

KJV seems to stand alone on its translation as "mules."

Looking at the history of the word and it's use in older versions I assumed it would be more widespread in today's translations. A large number of the reformation era Bibles translated it as mules as well as several Jewish translations. I was not trying to make a King James only point. Merely discover what most people saw as they read the text. I just believed it was more widespread than it is. It is used in other versions than just the KJB but the ones I've found all try to claim KJ roots so that's understandable.

Again, I was not trying to make a KJB point. I merely assumed it was more varied in today's translations and wanted to see what the majority saw as they read it. Next time I guess I'll do a versions check before I ask.

Thanks everyone.
 
Looking at the history of the word and it's use in older versions I assumed it would be more widespread in today's translations. A large number of the reformation era Bibles translated it as mules as well as several Jewish translations. I was not trying to make a King James only point. Merely discover what most people saw as they read the text. I just believed it was more widespread than it is. It is used in other versions than just the KJB but the ones I've found all try to claim KJ roots so that's understandable.

Again, I was not trying to make a KJB point. I merely assumed it was more varied in today's translations and wanted to see what the majority saw as they read it. Next time I guess I'll do a versions check before I ask.

Thanks everyone.

Understood. Sorry for misunderstanding. All the translations I am familiar with translate as water or hot spring.
 
What I would also ask is if there would be a term or word usage from the time of the first writing of the KJV that would have implied, or be understood as, a spring or referencing water using the word mule. There are references in KJV that do that kind of thing.

edit: All I need do is look at differences in word usages in different parts of our country to understand that point. How many uses of the word mule are in our current society? Not counting the old game.
 
Last edited:
I'm going to be bold and outright say it:

When it comes to this stuff, the newer the Bible, the better.

Biblical scholarship is an ongoing struggle with (often very badly damaged or terribly kept) scrolls and archaeology and with a dead language that nobody truly knows. But our researchers and our understanding of scripture is getting better over time. Our translators know a lot more about what they're doing that King Jimmy's did.

That said, of course, beware modern political crap in your Bible translations. But if the translation is a serious one. It WILL be better.
 
Just to shed all the light on the verse in question:


KJV said:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]These are the names of Esau's sons; Eliphaz the son of Adah the wife of Esau, Reuel the son of Bashemath the wife of Esau.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And the sons of Eliphaz were Teman, Omar, Zepho, and Gatam, and Kenaz.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And Timna was concubine to Eliphaz Esau's son; and she bare to Eliphaz Amalek: these were the sons of Adah Esau's wife.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And these are the sons of Reuel; Nahath, and Zerah, Shammah, and Mizzah: these were the sons of Bashemath Esau's wife.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And these were the sons of Aholibamah, the daughter of Anah the daughter of Zibeon, Esau's wife: and she bare to Esau Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]These were dukes of the sons of Esau: the sons of Eliphaz the firstborn son of Esau; duke Teman, duke Omar, duke Zepho, duke Kenaz,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Duke Korah, duke Gatam, and duke Amalek: these are the dukes that came of Eliphaz in the land of Edom; these were the sons of Adah.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And these are the sons of Reuel Esau's son; duke Nahath, duke Zerah, duke Shammah, duke Mizzah: these are the dukes that came of Reuel in the land of Edom; these are the sons of Bashemath Esau's wife.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And these are the sons of Aholibamah Esau's wife; duke Jeush, duke Jaalam, duke Korah: these were the dukes that came of Aholibamah the daughter of Anah, Esau's wife.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]These are the sons of Esau, who is Edom, and these are their dukes.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]These are the sons of Seir the Horite, who inhabited the land; Lotan, and Shobal, and Zibeon, and Anah,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And Dishon, and Ezer, and Dishan: these are the dukes of the Horites, the children of Seir in the land of Edom.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And the children of Lotan were Hori and Hemam; and Lotan's sister was Timna.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the children of Shobal were these; Alvan, and Manahath, and Ebal, Shepho, and Onam.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And these are the children of Zibeon; both Ajah, and Anah: this was that Anah that found the mules in the wilderness, as he fed the asses of Zibeon his father.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And the children of Anah were these; Dishon, and Aholibamah the daughter of Anah.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And these are the children of Dishon; Hemdan, and Eshban, and Ithran, and Cheran.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]The children of Ezer are these; Bilhan, and Zaavan, and Akan.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]The children of Dishan are these; Uz, and Aran.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]These are the dukes that came of the Horites; duke Lotan, duke Shobal, duke Zibeon, duke Anah,
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Duke Dishon, duke Ezer, duke Dishan: these are the dukes that came of Hori, among their dukes in the land of Seir.

NIV said:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]These are the names of Esau’s sons:
Eliphaz, the son of Esau’s wife Adah, and Reuel, the son of Esau’s wife Basemath.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]The sons of Eliphaz:
Teman, Omar, Zepho, Gatam and Kenaz.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Esau’s son Eliphaz also had a concubine named Timna, who bore him Amalek. These were grandsons of Esau’s wife Adah.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]The sons of Reuel:
Nahath, Zerah, Shammah and Mizzah. These were grandsons of Esau’s wife Basemath.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]The sons of Esau’s wife Oholibamah daughter of Anah and granddaughter of Zibeon, whom she bore to Esau:
Jeush, Jalam and Korah.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]These were the chiefs among Esau’s descendants:
The sons of Eliphaz the firstborn of Esau:
Chiefs Teman, Omar, Zepho, Kenaz, [SUP]16 [/SUP]Korah,[SUP][a][/SUP] Gatam and Amalek. These were the chiefs descended from Eliphaz in Edom; they were grandsons of Adah.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]The sons of Esau’s son Reuel:
Chiefs Nahath, Zerah, Shammah and Mizzah. These were the chiefs descended from Reuel in Edom; they were grandsons of Esau’s wife Basemath.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]The sons of Esau’s wife Oholibamah:
Chiefs Jeush, Jalam and Korah. These were the chiefs descended from Esau’s wife Oholibamah daughter of Anah.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]These were the sons of Esau (that is, Edom), and these were their chiefs.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]These were the sons of Seir the Horite, who were living in the region:
Lotan, Shobal, Zibeon, Anah, [SUP]21 [/SUP]Dishon, Ezer and Dishan. These sons of Seir in Edom were Horite chiefs.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]The sons of Lotan:
Hori and Homam.[SUP][b][/SUP] Timna was Lotan’s sister.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]The sons of Shobal:
Alvan, Manahath, Ebal, Shepho and Onam.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]The sons of Zibeon:
Aiah and Anah. This is the Anah who discovered the hot springs[SUP][c][/SUP] in the desert while he was grazing the donkeys of his father Zibeon.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]The children of Anah:
Dishon and Oholibamah daughter of Anah.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]The sons of Dishon[SUP][d][/SUP]:
Hemdan, Eshban, Ithran and Keran.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]The sons of Ezer:
Bilhan, Zaavan and Akan.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]The sons of Dishan:
Uz and Aran.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]These were the Horite chiefs:
Lotan, Shobal, Zibeon, Anah, [SUP]30 [/SUP]Dishon, Ezer and Dishan. These were the Horite chiefs, according to their divisions, in the land of Seir.

Footnotes:


  1. Genesis 36:16 Masoretic Text; Samaritan Pentateuch (also verse 11 and 1 Chron. 1:36) does not have Korah.
  2. Genesis 36:22 Hebrew Hemam, a variant of Homam (see 1 Chron. 1:39)
  3. Genesis 36:24 Vulgate; Syriac discovered water; the meaning of the Hebrew for this word is uncertain.
  4. Genesis 36:26 Hebrew Dishan, a variant of Dishon

NRSV said:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]These are the names of Esau’s sons: Eliphaz son of Adah the wife of Esau; Reuel, the son of Esau’s wife Basemath. [SUP]11 [/SUP]The sons of Eliphaz were Teman, Omar, Zepho, Gatam, and Kenaz. [SUP]12 [/SUP](Timna was a concubine of Eliphaz, Esau’s son; she bore Amalek to Eliphaz.) These were the sons of Adah, Esau’s wife. [SUP]13 [/SUP]These were the sons of Reuel: Nahath, Zerah, Shammah, and Mizzah. These were the sons of Esau’s wife, Basemath. [SUP]14 [/SUP]These were the sons of Esau’s wife Oholibamah, daughter of Anah son[SUP][a][/SUP] of Zibeon: she bore to Esau Jeush, Jalam, and Korah.
Clans and Kings of Edom

[SUP]15 [/SUP]These are the clans[SUP][b][/SUP] of the sons of Esau. The sons of Eliphaz the firstborn of Esau: the clans[SUP][c][/SUP] Teman, Omar, Zepho, Kenaz, [SUP]16 [/SUP]Korah, Gatam, and Amalek; these are the clans[SUP][d][/SUP] of Eliphaz in the land of Edom; they are the sons of Adah. [SUP]17 [/SUP]These are the sons of Esau’s son Reuel: the clans[SUP][e][/SUP] Nahath, Zerah, Shammah, and Mizzah; these are the clans[SUP][f][/SUP] of Reuel in the land of Edom; they are the sons of Esau’s wife Basemath. [SUP]18 [/SUP]These are the sons of Esau’s wife Oholibamah: the clans[SUP][g][/SUP] Jeush, Jalam, and Korah; these are the clans[SUP][h][/SUP] born of Esau’s wife Oholibamah, the daughter of Anah. [SUP]19 [/SUP]These are the sons of Esau (that is, Edom), and these are their clans.[SUP][i][/SUP]
[SUP]20 [/SUP]These are the sons of Seir the Horite, the inhabitants of the land: Lotan, Shobal, Zibeon, Anah, [SUP]21 [/SUP]Dishon, Ezer, and Dishan; these are the clans[SUP][j][/SUP] of the Horites, the sons of Seir in the land of Edom. [SUP]22 [/SUP]The sons of Lotan were Hori and Heman; and Lotan’s sister was Timna. [SUP]23 [/SUP]These are the sons of Shobal: Alvan, Manahath, Ebal, Shepho, and Onam. [SUP]24 [/SUP]These are the sons of Zibeon: Aiah and Anah; he is the Anah who found the springs[SUP][k][/SUP] in the wilderness, as he pastured the donkeys of his father Zibeon. [SUP]25 [/SUP]These are the children of Anah: Dishon and Oholibamah daughter of Anah. [SUP]26 [/SUP]These are the sons of Dishon: Hemdan, Eshban, Ithran, and Cheran. [SUP]27 [/SUP]These are the sons of Ezer: Bilhan, Zaavan, and Akan. [SUP]28 [/SUP]These are the sons of Dishan: Uz and Aran. [SUP]29 [/SUP]These are the clans[SUP][l][/SUP] of the Horites: the clans[SUP][m][/SUP] Lotan, Shobal, Zibeon, Anah, [SUP]30 [/SUP]Dishon, Ezer, and Dishan; these are the clans[SUP][n][/SUP] of the Horites, clan by clan[SUP][o][/SUP] in the land of Seir.
Footnotes:


  1. Genesis 36:14 Gk Syr: Heb daughter
  2. Genesis 36:15 Or chiefs
  3. Genesis 36:15 Or chiefs
  4. Genesis 36:16 Or chiefs
  5. Genesis 36:17 Or chiefs
  6. Genesis 36:17 Or chiefs
  7. Genesis 36:18 Or chiefs
  8. Genesis 36:18 Or chiefs
  9. Genesis 36:19 Or chiefs
  10. Genesis 36:21 Or chiefs
  11. Genesis 36:24 Meaning of Heb uncertain
  12. Genesis 36:29 Or chiefs
  13. Genesis 36:29 Or chiefs
  14. Genesis 36:30 Or chiefs
  15. Genesis 36:30 Or chief by chief

Bam. These were retrieved from biblegateway.com.

I'm going to have to agree with Neirai on this one, but with a caveat - our knowledge of these ancient languages increases everyday; however, these are still just translations of the original. If you want to know the original meaning (you can read that as "true meaning" if you'd like) then you need to become a biblical scholar and learn these ancient languages.
 
Last edited:
A natural spring would have wild life so it's easy to say both translations are correct. We also got to take into effect the point that I'm sure the translators researched maybe what specific areas this part of the Jewish people populated. Done research on the geography of the area and also maybe this area was know for its wild mules bc the presence of a natural spring. Not everything in the bible isn't always black and white.
 
Back
Top