End game instances

I would be interested in end game instances if

  • An experienced guild would be willing to open a few spots for us to go on.

    Votes: 8 66.7%

  • Only with two or three other guilds, learn it all on ourselves.

    Votes: 2 16.7%

  • I like getting to 60 and the rerolling, Instances after UBRS don't interest me

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Total voters
    12
I would be interested in MC and stuff if they did not take 7 hours.

I can not really set that time aside at the moment.
 
When I ran with Roadkill, we spent no more then 4 hours. And in ZG today, we only spent about 4 hours as well.
 
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I do have an epic ring ... I've tried to sell it twice, its the best tanking ring in the game, but I didn't get it from ZG.
 
Right now for me anything over two hours is hard to come by. In the summer things are very slow and I can dedicate the time. But right now i have things three nights a week during the week. I wish I could do more.
 
All i have heard is our connection with the guild that runs it Thursday and Friday.

I thought it was 7 hours on Thursday and then 4 on Friday to finish it up.

Is there another option for us?
 
Spending 4 hours playing video games is pretty tuff to do on a regular basis. With a DKP systems that the bigger guilds have, the casual raider will have a long wait until they get the DKP needed to roll on items. Looking at the time requirements of the high end instances, I personally will probably end up playing one of my many alts instead of spending 4 hours in MC.
 
All I can do is speak from experience. When we ran with MES, we spent more time getting to the first boss then when I ran with Roadkill this weeked taking out three bosses. And I was told by many people in Roadkill that it took longer to take out those three bosses then normal because they had 10 new people in the raid and they were 7 people shy from a full 40 man raid. I don't think we even spent 4 hours in Molton Core on Friday and we did have a couple wipes.

And from the experience of our ZG run last night, we spent less then 3 hours in the instance and that included 3 full attempts on a boss that was most likely not the boss we should have been doing on our first run.

Now that we know how to deal with all the trash mobs around the first 3 bosses, I would be very suprised if it took us an hour to get to and attempt the first boss (not the spider boss, the bat boss) at least a couple of times.


==== When it comes to DKP ====

People are spending their DKP points in the bigger guilds. They get 100 points, spend it all on an item and have 0. You run a couple runs with them and you will have 50 or more points to spend on items, which means you might be able to outbid people who have been running for months. The difference is that they have 5 epic peices and you are getting your first. Also, it can happen that you do a few runs with no Paladin drops. Then on your third run the paladin set bracers drops. Because all the other paladins have their bracers (or better) you might win by default, or be only bidding against 1 other paladin.

It also costs less to run with experienced guilds. They wipe less because they are experienced. Which means less durability loss to repair.
 
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I think if we can find a hole in an established guild that has maybe 5 to 10 open spots weekly that would be awesome. It would also work if we can create an alliance of some kind to get enough people together but for the experience if we can fit some guildies in with an established guild it is likely a good idea.
 
All hail the Lich King Odale!

Dragon Kill Points. It is a system that gives points for contributing to raids. Those points are then used to bid on high end loot. The idea behind it is to reward the frequent contributors with the ability to get the loot. So take a priest who has been running MC with the group for the past 5 raids and a pickup priest who is running MC with the group for the first time. The purple staff of insane spirit and +1000 healing drops. With DKP, the priest who has ran MC 5 times will have more points and can out bid the priest who is running with the group for the first time.

My reservations about the system is that it rewards those that can sit and raid constantly (those without a life so to speak). So those with work and families take longer to get the same loot. I would hope in whatever system we adopt as a Christian guild, we can look outside of just pure running the raids as a way to earn points. For instance, attendance of scheduled guild events, leading and helping out guildmates and witnessing/recruiting new members as alternatives?
 
My reservations about the system is that it rewards those that can sit and raid constantly (those without a life so to speak). So those with work and families take longer to get the same loot.
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This is true to a point of absolute time spent in an instance versus relative time spent. It doesn't matter what instance you name, the more time you spend in it, you will receive more loot from it. If you spend 1,000 hours in Maraudon, you will have more loot from Maraudon then somebody who has spent 5 hours. But relatively, each person will receive the same amount per hour spent in Maraudon.

If the "loot" allocation system is designed in such a way that everybody can expect to win a drop every 9 hours in an end game instance reset then it doesn't matter if you have a life or no life. Every 9 hours you spend in ZG means you can expect to take something away. If you have enough time to spend 18 hours a month, then you can expect to be taking 2 items. If you can run it for 180 hours, then you might win 20 items.

There is also the concept of diminishing returns. In Maruadon, the princess drops two really nice caster items, a crown and a necklace. As a priest, if I have them both already, other casters will have a better chance of getting loot from a princess run then myself because they will not be competing with me on those items. Same with end game instances. If you just started running MC with ONE, you might only be competing with 1 other warrior for the Bracers of Might because all the other warriors already have them or have better.

There are also other limiting factors on a DKP system. Such as a 1 item limit per run. So even if somebody has hoarded 5,000 points, they will not take away all the drops. Once they get their item, they won't be bidding on any other items that run. People who are hoarding are usually doing so for a very specific drop. So, if in a run, all the priests except yourself are hoarding points on the hopes the priest epic staff quest drops, they will be passing on the prophecy items that drop. Meaning a pickup, or a priest that doesn't run often will pickup those peices.

As for what items are used to increase DKP: Often events that anybody can achieve are a good starting point. Showing up on time for a raid, staying a full raid, being on for 75% of the raid duration as an alt, taking down bosses are all events that no matter what guild you are from as a pickup will gain you points. How you gain points should be fair to everybody and transperant. If we pickup somebody who runs with us 80% of the time, they should be able to gain points at the same rate as somebody in the guild who also runs 80% of the time. Adding in events that people outside of the guild can't take advantage of will slowly leave them alienated which will in turn cause a decrease of good will with our guild in the community.

IF WE COULD RUN ZG guild only (which we can not at this time) adding in events or items such as steping up and taking a leadership role in the guild (helping out, running a bible study, showing up for one etc) we could incorporate that.

---

There are other systems other then DKP. There are modified roll system. For example, your /rand 1-100 will increase by points for showing up on time for raids etc..etc.. Lets say over a few run you've gained 60 points. Your random roll would be /rand 61-160. If gives you a better chance of winning an item over somebody who has only 20 points (21-120) or just started (1-100). Somebody who just started though, still has a chance to win (they could roll a 98 while the person who has 20 points rolls a 42 and the person who has 60 points rolls a 75).. If you win, you loose all your bonus points (back to 1-100) and when combined with a 1 item per instance reset rule, you won't be rolling on any items until the next instance reset.

Under a modified\weighted roll system, if you don't win anything, after a short while you will get your self into a near gauranteed win position (ie...rolling 101-200 versus people rolling 1-100). But never really removes the chance to win something every run or every other run.

The items\events that add to the bonus on a roll should be available to everybody on the raid and transperent. If we could run ZG all guild only, we could add other modifiers. And even if we had to pickup some people, they would be able to roll on loot right away (1-100) instead of waiting for DKP to be added up.
 
dkp are good becasue remember your luck in game is based on your life luck, since the game is still a part of your life and luck doesnt discriminate. so if you have an unlucky week and then friday you do MC your gonna get all that luck back on nice rolls. with no dkps ppl who had a good week will get owned by luck since it will be balancing itself out. dkps allow increased chance over time for you to win even if luck is helping someone else in game to offset RL circumstances.

heres a free tip to help you out. if you are of age go to your local casino and like bet on stuff. there are different ways to determine how long you shoudl stay. but which ever you choose doesnt matter. ok so its the end of the night, if you are up in money great! you made easy money and can go play WoW and relax the night away PLing some of my alts, but steer clear of long raids becasue you arent gonna get jack becasue you used all your luck in the casino.
now if you lose money who cares!? you know why? becuase when you go on the UBRS raid tonight your class chest piece will drop and you will get it! now this depends on how bad you lost in the casino, but the more you lost the better your chances. either situation is a win-win.

;]
 
The DKP system is good and easy to use i have been in and at every raid i could make (not totally forgoing any social life i have at college) and have gained more DKP than most warriors and some of the mages (only bought 1 item so far) dedicated players after a couple weeks will be at the top of the DKP list (which means you get first Dibs on the item that drops IE if i have 300 DKp and you have 100 i get to choose to take it or pass)
 
I thought DKP originated in EQ... I was involved with some of the largest guilds in Percival (one of the top 2 or 3 servers when I used to play) while I played anyways and we never used DKP. Not saying that it isn't possible, could have come in after I quit or on another server. Just a thought though :)
 
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