Eliminating one's reproductive rights.

ewoksrule said:
can you explain the question better please? I dont understand how anyone can stop you from reproducing.
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Not really. Just, what does God say about severely limiting one's reproductive rights.

Edit: I'm not trying to troll either, but this involves someone I know who constantly makes poor decisions regarding the topic at hand (e.g. attempting to bring/bringing a baby into the world when the living conditions would be more suited for a 3rd world nation, limited food, no planning for the future, an extreme lack of patience for children, a history of violence, etc).
 
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Can you describe what a reproductive right is? Are you speaking about China where you can only have 1 kid? I can't even comprehend how someone can limit my ability to reproduce, that is such a private thing to me, no body has any say in it.
 
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I edited my post after you posted yours. What I mean by severely restricting one's reproductive ability is basically no kids.
 
Children are a gift from God, Every good and perfect gift comes from God, If you being evil know how to give good gifts how much better are the gifts from your Father, A sparrow shall not fall to the ground without your Father knowing it, Take care not for what you shall eat or wear for your Father which clothed the grass and fed the sparrow shall take care of all your needs.


The 1 minute version using Bible verses I've probably quoted incorrectly.
 
To quote Galileo - "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." I know I've seen that somewhere.

I see way too much of this working with the poor, and working with the stupid. Not that those two are the same - just that there are poorer people who do not provide for their families, although some poorer people do very well. There are some people who make terrible choices, consistently, and find themselves in fixes with kids. Sometimes it breaks your heart to think of another child coming into that household.

A couple of verses that come to mind are:

You will always have poor people with you, but you will not always have me. Matthew 26:11 (TEV)
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There are always going to be people who you will wonder why they keep having kids when they cannot provide for those they already have. That is where stupid kicks in. Nowhere in the scriptures (that I know of) does it say you should forcibly stop them. It just says there are going to be people like that.

I know our society thinks we can do away with poverty - but that is where stupidity kicks in again. How much money would it take? How many hundreds of billions - even trillions - of dollars have we thrown at the problem in America? Thankfully, many take advantage of the opportunities and change the future for their families. Sadly, for too many, stupid kicks in and they simply repeat the patterns and behaviors and remain in their poverty, having child after child...and the story goes on.

But anyone who won’t care for his own relatives when they need help, especially those living in his own family, has no right to say he is a Christian. Such a person is worse than the heathen. 1 Timothy 5:8 (TLB)
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I know the verse says "won't" but I wonder if it couldn't say "can't" just as well. Or someone who knows they can't and keeps bringing children into the situation they (the parent) cannot handle.

I also know the verse is talking primarily about someone who hardens their heart and won't help their family - but I wonder if it doesn't also apply to someone who doesn't care about following God's plan and does whatever they want to do instead. I'm thinking of the arrogance of a teenage girl who wants to be a mother, no matter her ability to provide and raise a child...or the infamous OctoMom from a few years ago - she just wanted to have more kids - with no means to support them.

I haven't even touched on those families that are well to do financially, but stupid in relationships and dealing with children - the damage done by broken homes - step parents and children - abandonment - abuse - and the list goes on. Families that have the means but are just stupid. People you hear about and you say to yourself, "They shouldn't be allowed to have children."

I'm going to do some more looking through scripture - but I'm pretty sure it doesn't say anywhere that we should neuter them, or have limits on the number of children people have. Scriptures probably doesn't address simply not rewarding people for having more and more kids.

It is an interesting question...
 
Good point Abba.

God is the ultimate life giver. He is the causer and designer of each person conceived and born. If you want to get upset you should look up the food chain a little bit. Ultimately we don't know the destiny of each child and whether born into a terrible situation or a silver spoon, only the Father knows the plans He has for all of us.

I wonder too if our definition of provide is skewed. Take five minutes to go through this simulation: http://www.churchworldservice.org/decisions/index.htm Extreme poverty or youth doesn't seem to be an barrier for people to have children.

I wonder what people thought of teenage Mary getting pregnant with the baby Jesus...
 
No scriptures sorry, but years of thought on the subject. Abba I both agree and disagree on the descriptor "stupid", willfully ignorant might work there(almost). I am assuming (bad thing to do) we are primarily speaking USA. Therefore without turning into more of a socialist country, no there is no way to do so. How to deal with the problem? Personally I think stricter child protective laws along with rational enforcement, combined with a push for special needs adoption. I have two children, both adopted, one foreign one domestic, both special needs. Do I rant and rave about "stupid" biological parents? Never, they both made the best choice they could, and we wound up with two wonderful children, who are now self sufficient adults, and one is raising a family in a loving home that would be the envy of many parents and prospective parents. I am an advocate of adoption of special needs children, and stricter parental termination rights. Too often I have seen children removed from an unfit home, bounced around in foster homes for a couple of years. Then returned to biological parents to resume the abusive, and neglectful cycles. Where does the church come in? As Christians we have the greatest example of adoptive love going. If we start teaching about adoption, and needs within the church we would have a large pool of great homes, would all the adoptions be roses with no thorns? NO! Would there be better support? With the right church training yes. Should we restrict procreation in USA, no, should we as Christians step up? YES>
 
ewoksrule said:
can you explain the question better please? I dont understand how anyone can stop you from reproducing.
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Are we talking through laws or medical procedures? One is very possible, the other would never fly past the Supreme Court (in USA).
 
True that, I was just trying to understand that too, laws or procedures or what? With all the political propaganda about some supposed war on women and birth control I was just needing clarification.
 
Odale said:
... someone I know who constantly makes poor decisions regarding the topic at hand (e.g. attempting to bring/bringing a baby into the world when the living conditions would be more suited for a 3rd world nation, limited food, no planning for the future, an extreme lack of patience for children, a history of violence, etc).
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I would like to address this specifically if I may...

Everything we do and every decision we make must be brought back to Christ Jesus. So what is this person's reason for wanting a child if it is clear that they do not have the necessary means to care for that child?

I have met with people who had a longing need for a child, but the longing was just to fill a void in their life that can ultimatley only be found with Jesus.

Now having said these things, we must also consider the divine working... if God specifically told this person that thy will conceive, then God will also provide the means for the care. (This includes patience, I know a lot of people who have learned patience from children).

Without knowing the details, it is not our place to make further judgements.
 
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The question/subject is a bit broad. But we must remember the world breaks down into two groups. The saved and the unsaved. This will play a large part in the events and protections in their lives. God will never place upon us more than we can bear (although we often take more upon ourselves than we can bear). This includes children and their needs. Too often we misrepresent wants as needs. Cable TV, Internet and a cellphone are not needs if you don't have food to feed your children.

We, as the saved, will always have our needs provided for by the Father. We may not be good stewards of what He gives us and squander it but He will always provide it. The lost have no such promise.

All children are a gift from God. There is never a reason from God to withhold that gift from ourselves. However, we often selfishly come up with reason to.

The lost live in a sinful, fallen world who's only hope is thru Jesus. Their lives will reflect that. It might not always be evident (the lives or rich and powerful people don't look to bad) but the void created by the lack of eternal salvation will always be filled by sin and what sin creates.
 
Wolfeman said:
All children are a gift from God. There is never a reason from God to withhold that gift from ourselves. However, we often selfishly come up with reason to.
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I think you should be careful about how you word this. There are many couples who are unable to have children through no fault of their own. For some reason, known only to God, He has decided to withhold natural childbirth from them. By the same token, not every reason that people use to decide not to have children is selfish.
 
Patriot said:
Are we talking through laws or medical procedures? One is very possible, the other would never fly past the Supreme Court (in USA).
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ewoksrule said:
True that, I was just trying to understand that too, laws or procedures or what? With all the political propaganda about some supposed war on women and birth control I was just needing clarification.
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I guess what I want to know is what does God say about limiting one's abilities to reproduce (I was leaning more towards the medical route). I'm fully aware this would never, ever fly in our current political environment (I could literally talk about this all day, but in this thread I refuse to do so).

rev. Jim said:
Now having said these things, we must also consider the divine working... if God specifically told this person that thy will conceive, then God will also provide the means for the care. (This includes patience, I know a lot of people who have learned patience from children).

Without knowing the details, it is not our place to make further judgements.
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I understand that everything has a reason behind it and a purpose in His plan and that it is perfect... despite how it may appear right now. However... aren't all things in His plan, things like contraceptives?

I do know more details but I will not divulge them due to privacy.

Wolfeman said:
The question/subject is a bit broad. But we must remember the world breaks down into two groups. The saved and the unsaved. This will play a large part in the events and protections in their lives.
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Sorry to cut out the rest of your post, but this person is unsaved and absolutely refuses to seek help from the Church. This is a big reason why I'm asking: "What does God say about limiting one's reproductive abilities."
 
More on celibacy than on birth-control, but it was the closest thing I could find. Scripture doesn't address the issue directly.

Matthew 19:11-12
But He said to them, “All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given: 12 For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it.”
 
You should clarify is it "limiting one's own reproductive rights" or "limiting one's others reproductive rights".
 
Odale said:
Others.
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Ok, good. Then this is fairly straightforward. Nothing in God's Law limits or forbids his mandate to Adam and Eve to "be fruitful and multiply". Neither should speak against this mandate. The only time I think we can speak of this is in proxy to the sanctity of marriage. If a young unmarried couple talks about having children outside of marriage we could speak against that, but not because of having children, but rather their willful disregard for the law of marriage.

It is however permissible if people choose to not have children for a multitude of reasons, but that's not the question.
 
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