Does it matter about converters?

This is turning into a bloodbath so I will try to provide a generic example.

Take a modern day "converter" for this purpose I will use the adapters used in modern electronics. If the metal contains impurities it increases the resistance and can end up adding in noise. Taken with a bit of salt you can interpret the adapter as the relationship with Jesus to God. If that relationship is established in such a way that it is distorted you will get a lot of noise and will ultimately find it hard to have a relationship with Christ. It is not to say that the converter is to be blamed for the converted failing to develop a relationship but just something that can (and often will) happen.

Ultimately I believe it is up to the person to develop a clean relationship with God. You can't force that down someone's throat. In the same light not being in a church that is "pure" can hurt the relationship as they stray away from God. Of course this can happen personally if a person loses interest or they encounter obstacles in developing their relationship.
 
Guys, he just said "anything that goes against the Bible", not anything that goes against the Catholic religion. Let's stick with that.
 
Atown said:
so ur saying u have a bad impression of your current pastor, ur parents, your guild master and everyone else?
Click to expand...

GAH!

Sorry. I mean that I don't like the negative impressions that can possibly be given. Like, people see Pat Robertson and some might take him and apply his kookiness to all Christians (although I'm not saying that he represents me). People judge Catholics by what the current Pope says.

It can be good or bad, but what I mean by negative impressions is that people might see my pastor and think everyone in my church was like him.

(I'm not saying my pastor is bad, that's just for the sake of argument)
 
Caleb said:
Does it matter if whatever Christians that convert other
people to Christianity whether the Converters go to
a heretical church or not or hear heretical doctrine or
not?
Click to expand...

sorry, I know this has been going another direction, but I have to throw out the question that's not being asked. Is it possible for a Christian to convert someone to Christianity? I thought that only God could do that.

John 6:44, 64, 65 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. Yet there are some of you who do not believe...." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

John 10:27-29 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."
 
I think that to a certain extent, we do bring people to Christianity (or rather, bring Christianity to them).

(Matthew 28:19)
Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you, and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.
Click to expand...

We are the ones that have to get the word out, otherwise, people never find out about Jesus. This is the point of Missions trips, and organizations that develop them. If nobody ever goes to Washington DC and tells people about our salvation, how are they going to know that they can get it to?

If God wanted to just whisper it to everyone, "Psst, hey. hey you. yeah, you. I just wanted to let you know that I'm God. My son took your place and saved your soul.", He could. But that's not how He chose to do it. He chose to send us to educate people, bring Christ to them, and then let them make their own choice. Even if we just go and plant a little seed... well, keep in mind the references to the mustard plants in the New Testament.

But you're partially right. Our efforts don't even win a place in Heaven for our own souls (Jesus did that)... so our efforts certainly don't win places in Heaven for others. But our efforts do let people know about Jesus, so His sacrifice isn't partially wasted.
 
I would hope that all of us here understand the difference between what TJ said and what it really means, as I had previously pointed out. I'd have to side with TJ on this one. Yes, it's correct, but I don't think TJ meant that somehow he'd become the savior for folks rather than Jesus. Nitpicking is just derailing the topic.

Speaking of which, does anyone else have replies to the original question asked?

Does it matter if whatever Christians that convert other
people to Christianity whether the Converters go to
a heretical church or not or hear heretical doctrine or
not?
Click to expand...

Which I believe we basically took to mean... Does it matter if you introduce someone to Christianity (whether it be Catholicism or Protestant-based faiths)?

My personal view? Based on the Bible, as long as you're calling Jesus the Son, God the Father, and what lives within us The Spirit... our sins redeemed... I don't think you can be absolutely wrong. God knows we're still screw ups, but forgives us and loves us anyway.
 
Can we please keep the comments against the Pope down (or any anti-catholic beliefs for that matter)? Whether you like him or not that's your own business, and some people may get offended...

tjguitarz said:
Cathalocism in itself has many problems. I don't really know where I stand on it, but here are the facts that often float in my head.


1. The Bible CLEARLY states that NOTHING paganistic should be combined with any of God's word.
--someone have scripture to back this up? ... besides common sense.--

2. Before constantine made Christianity the religion of Rome, the entire population was completely ENGULFED in paganism. They worshipped countless gods, did the whole Ashra-pole thing, orgies, maybe some human sacrficing. They were very evil people.

3. Once Constatine decided to make Christianity the religion of Rome, all he basically did was put a "Jesus" sticker on everything. Most (if not all) of the pagan ways were molded directly into what is now Catholocism (violates fact number 1).

4. Popes, bishops, cardinals, holy water, those wafers instead of bread, saints, and the worship of Virgin Mary all came from pagan counterparts. No where in the Bible, the Truth, the Word of God, does it say that there is to be a "pope-guy" that leads the church. In no place does it say his opinion or choices should have any significance than anyone elses. What really grinds my gears is prayer to the saints and the Virgin Mary. THAT IS PAGANISTIC! Each saint is acquainted with a former god and whatever they prayed to them for (safe travels, good weather, health, etc.). The worship of the Virgin Mary dates back to an old pagan story about some weird mother-son relationship thing (I still need to do a little investigation). The little wafers that Catholics eat in place of normal bread is related to a worship to this mother-son relationship... something to do with a God-Mother complex (sorry, I'll try to figure that out soon).


There are many people and Biblical scholars that believe Catholicism may be the religion of the beast. Revelation, if you chose to interpret it so, seems to clearly point out that a religion based in Rome with heavy Babylonian influences (which is where all these pagan things came from in the first place) would be the religion of the beast. But... *sigh* ... Revelation is a complicated book, and it CAN be interpreted many different ways. I've talked with many different people who now believe Islam is the religion of the beast. Yet, others believe that everything in Revelation took place during the reign of Nero within 100 years of Jesus' death, and now we are just waiting for His return.


When it all boils down to it, I've seen the Catholic church create more Laodicians (that is, luke warm Christians, Christians that go to church Sunday but don't act like they care at all about Christ) than anything else. When a church persecutes you for asking questions, tells you NOT to read the bible (that only the priests have the "special insight" necessary), and claims that without its teachings and rituals, you will go to Hell -- you know you have a problem.
Click to expand...

Where in the world did you get any of this information? Do you only look at anti-catholic sites? I have never once worshipped the Virgin Mary. And wafers? I've never been to a church Catholic or not that has real bread for communion.

Saints
The Blessed Virgin Mary
The Eucharist



CGA Terms of Service

#3 While it is understood that not all members will share a common belief in Christ, members will respect one another and respect the integrity of God's word.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
most churches that ive been to server wafers.

but, dont catholics worship saints as well as god? and arent the saints diff apostles who gave there life to jesus?

i dont know much about catholicism(sp?) but i thought the virgin mary was the main worship idle next to jesus?
 
Blkstones said:
most churches that I've been to server wafers.

but, don't catholics worship saints as well as god? and aren't the saints diff apostles who gave there life to Jesus?

i don't know much about Catholicism(sp?) but i thought the virgin Mary was the main worship idle next to Jesus?
Click to expand...

We do not worship anyone but God and Jesus. We ask the Saints and the Virgin Mary to pray for us to God, but we do not pray to them.
 
[toj.cc]phantom;242682 said:
We do not worship anyone but God and Jesus. We ask the Saints and the Virgin Mary to pray for us to God, but we do not pray to them.
Click to expand...

How do you talk to them to ask them to pray for you? They're in heaven. I guess you could pray to God and ask him to pass along the information, but...

Where in the world did you get any of this information? Do you only look at anti-catholic sites? I have never once worshipped the Virgin Mary. And wafers? I've never been to a church Catholic or not that has real bread for communion.
Click to expand...

I have. It was Baptist.
 
Most you guys are a little messed up.

You are getting Roman Catholic and English Catholic mixed up.

(please correct me if i'm wrong, i ALWAYS get them mixed up myself... but)

the American Catholic church practices English Catholicism... right?
 
ChickenSoup said:
How do you talk to them to ask them to pray for you? They're in heaven. I guess you could pray to God and ask him to pass along the information, but...



I have. It was Baptist.
Click to expand...

So your saying that's its impossible to talk to people who are in Heaven? You've never spoken to a deceased relative (grandmother or grandfather). Do you also believe that the people in Heaven don't pray for the people on earth? Because if you do than read this;

One charge made against it is that the saints in heaven cannot even hear our prayers, making it useless to ask for their intercession. However, this is not true. As Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.

Some might try to argue that in this passage the prayers being offered were not addressed to the saints in heaven, but directly to God. Yet this argument would only strengthen the fact that those in heaven can hear our prayers, for then the saints would be aware of our prayers even when they are not directed to them!

In any event, it is clear from Revelation 5:8 that the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us. We are explicitly told by John that the incense they offer to God are the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and cannot be physically offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding.
Click to expand...

Taken from here.
 
Some could argue that praying to anyone but Jesus Christ is a sin, such as myself. It is also said in the Bible that anyone who believes in Christ is a saint.
 
ChickenSoup said:
But correct, no?
Click to expand...

I was being a bit silly and knit picky, but I believe it's true. There are two calls. The outward call, and the inward call. The great commission is for us to go into the word to give the outward call, but the inward call comes from God.

I'll get off the tangent though. ;)
 
So your saying that's its impossible to talk to people who are in Heaven? You've never spoken to a deceased relative (grandmother or grandfather).
Click to expand...
Yes, and I haven't.

And wait--that Catholic site, I'm sorry phantom, but it is taking it a bit far.

Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits[a] of God sent out into all the earth. 7He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. 8And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they sang a new song:
"You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased men for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth."
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, but the saints weren't taking prayers to God--other beings were taking the prayers OF the saints TO God. True, it says "four living creatures and twenty-four elders", but elder what? Angels, perhaps? Or is it just symbolic?
 
You know what I think we should all just agree to disagree, this arguing is getting us nowhere. As i said before Rule 3 of the ToS.

CGA Terms of Service

#3 While it is understood that not all members will share a common belief in Christ, members will respect one another and respect the integrity of God's word.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top