Does God believe in you?

[Wirl]

Hello to all,

Here is one that we should ponder...

Does God believe in each one of us? I know that we (christians & jews) believe in Him. Well do you think that it is a two-way street?

Remember this is a discussion. Bring in your opinion, but be ready to receive others.
Peace.

 

[Dark Virtue]

If you are speaking from a theistic standpoint, how can God NOT believe in you? He made you after all, did He not?

From a non-theistic standpoint, the point in moot. God can't believe in us because there is no God.

 

[Genesis1315]

At the risk of overly simplifying this...God believes in me because His word tells me He does

Matthew 10:29 - 31
Jeremiah 29:11
Psalms 139:17-18
2 Thessalonians 2:16 - 17

 

[Wirl]

Amen Genesis

 

[Dark Virtue]

I'm assuming that Gen's post answered your question?

If so, can you tell me how?

As uplifting as those verses were, they don't say anything about God believing in us. Unless your question carried a different meaning than the one at face value.

Could you please enlighten me?

 

[Wirl]

I think what Genesis is trying to say is:
Matthew 10:29-31 (MsgB)
"What's the price of a pet canary? Some loose change, right? And God cares what happens to it even more than you do. [30] He pays even greater attention to you, down to the last detail—even numbering the hairs on your head! [31] So don't be intimidated by all this bully talk. You're worth more than a million canaries.
Since God puts a value on us, then He must believe in us.

My question was not out of searching, it was to start us thinking of all the possibilitis that He has for us.
Christians believe in Him, whole heartedly. We have to come to the realization that it is a two way street.
He does believe in us, or else He would have never sent Jesus to make a way for us to get back to Him.

Don't worry I have many more questions to ask of you all up my sleeve.

MAY GOD BE BLESSED!

 

[Marcylene]

Great answers Genesis!  He literally knows how many hairs I have!  That changes daily; therefore, He is keeping excellent track of me with the most seemingly insignificant details.
Check out the next two verses, His thoughts of me are more in number than the sand, then, the icing on the cake, they are good thoughts! Incredible!  These answered the question exquisitely, and there are more.  Consider His death on the cross, that alone tells me He believes in me. In addition, Romans 8: 14-17 tell me that I am adopted, and He, the King of all creation, allows me to call Him Abba Father, that's Daddy!  Imagine that!  If you look at the adoption laws, He is in effect, stuck with me, but He doesn't mind, I am the pick of the litter, if you will, as are we all!

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] (PastorWirl @ Oct. 12 2004,11:39)]

Quote[/b] ]I think what Genesis is trying to say is:
Matthew 10:29-31 (MsgB)
"What's the price of a pet canary? Some loose change, right? And God cares what happens to it even more than you do. [30] He pays even greater attention to you, down to the last detail—even numbering the hairs on your head! [31] So don't be intimidated by all this bully talk. You're worth more than a million canaries.
Since God puts a value on us, then He must believe in us.

According to that verse, I wouldn't say God puts a value on us, but rather, that God values us, hence His belief in us.

I guess the question just threw me. If you believe in God, why WOULDN'T God believe in something that He created?

Quote[/b] ]My question was not out of searching, it was to start us thinking of all the possibilitis that He has for us.

Now that I can sink my teeth into. But beware, I will hold your feet to the fire to get you to think of ALL the possibilities.

Quote[/b] ]Christians believe in Him, whole heartedly. We have to come to the realization that it is a two way street.

Ah, but you're skipping over what you consider such a minute detail, but to non-theists, it is the largest stumbling block. HOW, pray tell, did you come to that realization?

Quote[/b] ]He does believe in us, or else He would have never sent Jesus to make a way for us to get back to Him.

All part of His master plan, hmm? This has been my contention, that God, in order to actually BE God, has had a bold plan all along. One that includes creating the Garden of Eden to facilitate the Fall of Man. God knew Man would fall and did nothing to stop it. Not only that, but He WANTED, NEEDED, CONDONED, FACILITATED that Fall.

[qutoe]Don't worry I have many more questions to ask of you all up my sleeve. [/quote]

Good, my mind needs a good workout!

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] ]If you look at the adoption laws, He is in effect, stuck with me, but He doesn't mind, I am the pick of the litter, if you will, as are we all!

Except for people like me, right?

 

[Marcylene]

Whosoever will may come...
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:17

I had a nightly exercise when I was around 10. I would lie in bed and wonder what it was like for God before anything was created. Now, this was years before I knew about the Trinity. Some things I take by faith and some, I simply assume. Herewith may be based somewhat on assumption. We will learn of God throughout eternity. I like the idea of that, I like a challenge and variety and I think it shows great vision from God for it to be that way. I feel He was lonely when He created us. Yes, He is God and has foreknowledge, but He was willing to go through the torture of the Cross and know that it would be required if He created me, cuz' I was gonna' goof! I cannot imagine such love, nor such loneliness and desire for someone. It makes me feel special I also think He is amazing, wonderful, and magnificent to come to the heart, and seat of feelings of a little girl that wanted to make sense of why He created us.
Kewl! As I was looking over the Creation story, I thought of Heaven. He goes to prepare a place for me, this place is mighty beautiful! I cannot imagine how glorious the Garden of Eden must have been!

 

[Dark Virtue]

Of course it makes you feel special, of course it makes you feel good, of course it gives you a warm, fuzzy feeling deep inside. THAT is the purpose of religion. To dispel the bad in the world and give you a sense of hope and purpose.

To assume that something is true is to do so without knowing the facts. I could just assume that God doesn't exist, but that would be a slap in the face to sound judgement. So I ask you, why do you assume things are to be true of God? Because there is no evidence?

How does God expect us to believe in Him without evidence? Without reason? God wants us to ASSUME that He exists and I, for one, cannot do so. If I am to lower myself to assume that He exists, then I have to assume that all other gods exist as well.

 

[Marcylene]

It's all about faith.
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Romans 4:3
I LOOOOVEEE that one! A poor sinner like me striving daily to be righteous...He made it so easy! His yoke is easy and His burden light! Faith is what makes me righteousness...He just wants us to believe, pretty simple really! Well, if we can humble ourselves and become like little children.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] ]But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6

You cannot believe in God without Faith because there is no reason or evidence to believe in Him.

Quote[/b] ]Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Romans 4:3

Abraham believed in God because God SPOKE TO HIM. Abraham feared God, so much so that he was willing to sacrifice his only son to God. God does not speak to us, contrary to what others may say. No speech is uttered, no orders given, only some innocuous feelings.

If God wants US to believe, ALL OF US, then He wold make Himself known to ALL OF US. He has not done so and I do not expect Him to.

 

[Genesis1315]

Why would He make Himself known to those who do not wish to hear Him?

 

[Dark Virtue]

Why? Because He doesn't want any one to suffer.

By not making Himself known to everyone, He is allowing those people to suffer unnecessarily.

Keep one thing in mind though...you are confusing the issue.

People, like me, do not CHOOSE to disbelieve in Him. We do not believe in Him because we have no proof, we have been given no reason to believe. Big difference. I am not going out of my way to actively ignore God. I'm not running around in circles with my eyes shut and my fingers in my ears.

 

[Genesis1315]

God does not want us to suffer. If He did, He would not have sent His Son as our redeemer.

Let’s ponder this point for a moment. Have you ever watched the sunrise/sunset while riding in a car? They are spectacular, with all of the colors and shadows and reflections. Now, imagine looking down on that same picture from in an airplane. Same thing, just a different point of view.

Now, could it be possible that God has wanted someone to look at a situation from a different perspective. Might even reveal a part of Himself when one steps outside of the box [ack corporate America surfaces in Religious Discussions LOL]

I think we all choose what we want to believe, whether or not it is the easiest choice or leaves us with warm fuzzy feelings all of the time.

 

[Dark Virtue]

How does one step outside the box with a closed mind?

If ANYONE has an open mind, it would be a non-theist.

I think, what you are saying, is that the fault is all mine. The blame falls on me because I haven't tried hard enough to believe in God. As I have stated time and time again, desire is not enough. If God doesn't want anyone to suffer then He would show himself, CONVINCINGLY to everyone. HE DOES NOT. You have not seen us on our knees. The tears in our eyes. The longing to believe. Desire doesn't cut it.

I DO NOT CHOOSE TO DISBELIEVE. How hard is that to understand? I would believe if I had reason to. I have none.

 

[Wirl]

Dark Virtue,
You bring about 2 things that need to be addressed:
1) Can you give me proof that He(God) does not exist?
2) God did show himself. We (man) refused to acknowledge the fact and turned away from Him.

I can't wait to hear your answer for the first point.
On the second, we could get into a huge arguement about predestination or freewill, but I am not going there. God does have a "master plan," it does involve each one of us. It is OUR choice whether or not we want to get involved or not.
I want to guarantee something to you... If YOU keep looking for God, He will find you.
Keep your mind open, that is how I was found.

He wants you to search, He wants you to ask questions. All questions point back to Him.

You want proof?
Over in Isreal there are two places (we aren't for sure which is the correct one, since no one is alive from back then to confirm it). In these two places are, to put it simply, grave sites. Both are emtpy.
Proof?
Historical Proof?

Keep searching, do not be put down by anyone. He will find you.
May He bless you in your search.

 

[Jim]

I know these questions were aimed at DV but I feel I should pitch in.

Quote[/b] ]1) Can you give me proof that He(God) does not exist?

Ah, the proof he does/proof he doesn't conundrum. The beauty of a Omnimax is that it is fundamentally impossible to disprove. Remember we are talking about a being that is:

*Omnipotent; can do anything He wants, exists outside logic (we are led to believe) and therefore is not subject to logical scrutiny and measurement.

*Works in Mysterious Ways; i.e anything that cannot be attributed to God's altruism or kindness, anything that seems to contradict God's love can be chalked up to His mysterious ways.

To me, there is no logical or tangible proof (and before we go into nature and it's complexities, not now, I have endured that argument elsewhere) for God. To you, almost anything from nature to a fuzzy feeling is proof of God.

Quote[/b] ]2) God did show himself. We (man) refused to acknowledge the fact and turned away from Him.

How, exactly? Through Christ? There are no records or proof he existed as I've already mentioned twice before. I'm afraid Christ can be argued either way and unless solid proof is shown, I cannot honestly change my stance.

Through the Bible? I believe DV has brought this point up before: The Isrealites were RIGHT IN FRONT OF GOD when He brought them out of Egypt. He sent plagues and freak weather occurences and other bizzare afflictions which only affected the Egyptians. Then he led them away as a piller of fog and a piller of fire. They even witnessed Moses parting the Red Sea. If the Isrealites did not believe, being right in front of him that whole time, how do you expect us to interpret a fuzzy feeling and an ancient book which has a number of inconsistencies?

Quote[/b] ]You want proof?
Over in Isreal there are two places (we aren't for sure which is the correct one, since no one is alive from back then to confirm it). In these two places are, to put it simply, grave sites. Both are emtpy.
Proof?
Historical Proof?

Proof of what? That Christ existed? That Lazarus was in one of them perhaps?

Do you have any reason, aside from their location, that one of them was used to intern the body of Christ?

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] ]Dark Virtue,
You bring about 2 things that need to be addressed:
1) Can you give me proof that He(God) does not exist?

I have already answered this numerous time. I am not trying to prove that God DOES NOT EXIST. Atheists DO NOT TRY AND DISPROVE GOD. We do not believe in God because of a LACK OF EVIDENCE.

Quote[/b] ]2) God did show himself. We (man) refused to acknowledge the fact and turned away from Him.

God has not shown himself to me. I can't put it any simpler than that.

Quote[/b] ]I can't wait to hear your answer for the first point.

LOL, sorry if I slipped out of your little trap. As I have stated, I have never tried to disprove the existence of God. That's as ludicrous as trying to prove that He DOES exist.

Quote[/b] ]On the second, we could get into a huge arguement about predestination or freewill, but I am not going there.

Why not, isn't it a valid point?

Quote[/b] ]God does have a "master plan," it does involve each one of us. It is OUR choice whether or not we want to get involved or not.

I disagree wholeheartedly. Again we come down to desire. It's bullcrap. Desire alone is not enough to find God. When you say that you question the seeker's sincerity and strength.

Quote[/b] ]I want to guarantee something to you...

How exactly can you guarantee something you have no control over?

Quote[/b] ]If YOU keep looking for God, He will find you.

God will find me? OR I will find God? Why the need to play divine peekaboo?

Quote[/b] ]Keep your mind open, that is how I was found.

LOL, thanks, I needed a good laugh. What makes you think my mind is CLOSED?

Quote[/b] ]He wants you to search, He wants you to ask questions. All questions point back to Him.

I have searched, I have asked questions...guess what? The answers don't point to God.

Quote[/b] ]You want proof?
Over in Isreal there are two places (we aren't for sure which is the correct one, since no one is alive from back then to confirm it). In these two places are, to put it simply, grave sites. Both are emtpy.
Proof?

What the heck is this supposed to mean? Do you understand the meaning of PROOF? You're REALLY going to have to explain this one.